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  1. #1
    carribdoc is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    Get a college/uni degree before considering any carrib school

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    regardless of how poor your GPA is and there is no chance in hell you will get into a us or canadian med school, PLEASE dont drop out of college and start at Windsor. Windsor will always be an option available so dont worry about that. But the college degree, in my opinion, is a necessary component of your residency application if you are a US or Canadian citizen. Despite that some states need minimum credit hours if you are a us or canadian citizen, its just the concept. DONT DROP OUT OF COLLEGE

    Residency PD's can understand that one partied too much in college, and their GPA dropped to a dismal level. Residency PD's can understand physics was hard. Residency PD's cannot and will not try to understand how in anyway dropping out of college and going to Windsor regardless of your step scores being crazy good is justifiably okay.

    The simple thing is why did you not go to college? Why did you drop out of college? Did you get kicked out college for academic dishonesty? Something is terribly wrong is what they will think. Especially nondesi residency pd's

    and saying you're 21 in residency interviews actually goes against you. They want mature people with a wide variety of life experiences. not some ammateur, just like the residency pd's own child is probably doing the normal route of being a junior in some college/uni
    Last edited by carribdoc; 08-29-2015 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #2
    PnS11 is offline Senior Member 6123 points
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    that is great advice but likely will still be ignored by the majority.

    how do you plan to overcome this situation yourself?

  3. #3
    carribdoc is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    I wish I had not done the mistake of not having a college degree before going to Windsor. Terrible mistake, but if I dont match this year, I will try to go to community college and get an associates degree and then transfer to a 4 year college for the last 2 years and get a bachelors. Probably something Biology related. or see any paid salary teaching jobs are available at any of the carrib schools. yet to decide what route i want to go. Right now I am fortunate I got a research position, but my research supervisor has all ready told me that I should look elsewhere for residency most likely

    At the end of the day, I would recommend Windsor if you are keen on becoming a doctor especially if you have connections and/or knowledge about the whole process.

    However, be forewarned its a long road with a lot of uncertainties and to just drop out of college to go to Windsor is foolish and very short sighted.
    Last edited by carribdoc; 08-29-2015 at 08:33 PM.

  4. #4
    PnS11 is offline Senior Member 6123 points
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    if you dont mind me asking, where did you manage to land a research position? pm me if you want, but i imagine poor step scores are one of the main factors to you not matching. there are a lot of factors but im saying that has to be one of them. and with poor step scores is it not tough to freelance a research position?

  5. #5
    carribdoc is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by PnS11 View Post
    if you dont mind me asking, where did you manage to land a research position? pm me if you want, but i imagine poor step scores are one of the main factors to you not matching. there are a lot of factors but im saying that has to be one of them. and with poor step scores is it not tough to freelance a research position?
    It is very hard to land a research position. I had to beg, and essentially I am doing work for free for which I should be paid for quite frankly considering how much I am doing. It's not even a heavy research department. Its a community hospital but the physician who works at this hospital does research on the side so I asked him repeatedly until he gave in.

    My step scores were not poor. They werent exceptional either, but certainly not bad. What hurt me I think was I had just my step scores. Thats it. I wasnt a US Citizen, no college/uni degree, no research, no direct family connections, and on top of that coming from a nonbig 4 carrib school. When a program gets about 2000k applications for 12 spots for example, you have to stand out in many ways, and just having the step scores doesnt cut the bill these days. There is a very strong stigma against caribbean students that needs to be overcome with quite frankly a steller resume.

    Thats why I repeatedly say, Windsor is only good for students who have family connections and know how to navigate through the whole process. There is a tremendous amount of nepotism in residency selection, so get ready to face the brutal reality of it

  6. #6
    PnS11 is offline Senior Member 6123 points
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    that stinks to hear but students need to be realistic about where they apply as well. the american school avg is 228-230. that is the score to shoot for. if your scores are not even 220, you can cross out IM and anything above it. which leaves you with fm, peds, psych and other very basic specialties. and while they may not pay much (that's what everyone's here for right?) those are still the positions that are in dire need of doctors. so it might not cancel out having a weak step score, but the spots that are desperate for more physicians are the ones that require lower step scores. so there has to be some balance there in terms of still being able to match.

    so if your scores are below 230, you should not be looking at a university program. research at a community hospital is something but again, probably not going to do much, or as much as a uni position.

    you're not a US citizen so coupled with the fact your not gonna get a match a uni program means you are limited to community programs that sponsor a visa. if that is not where you applied last match, you wasted a lot of money at programs that weren't ever going to accept you.

    apply smart. use a residency match service or something because while you may not be a us citizen or have a 220+ step score, there are still some windsor-esque, low-end residency programs that will at least look at your application and call you in for an interview. residency programs are not overflowing with applications, at least not all of them. there are some that most US students or IMGs with 240+ step scores don't even consider a safety net school. those are the ones you need to seek out.
    if you return to college, that's great but that will add years to your "time since graduation." you missed one year not matching this year. I don't know how many years you've been stuck applying but if you dont match in 2016 next year that makes at least two years since graduation. 2-4 years for your undergrad degree makes it six years since graduation. most programs have a max of 4 or 5 years since graduation and even then they'll question why you didn't match in any of those years.

    I'm sure you know the gravity of your situation and the reality of it so hopefully i'm not bursting a bubble of yours that you haven't already on your own. but think about that and make moves accordingly. maybe start classes at a community college now while doing research. i'm sure research is a lot of work, but you can take 2-3 classes and starting building up credits in case you do not match this year and need to go another route.

    connections are great, but not many people have them. those that do have them still are probably us grad students so for them it's a matter of matching at a better program and not like IMG students where the concern is not matching at all. but i feel your situation is more than not having connections. it is a resume/step score issue. it's likely too late to take step 3 for this ERAS cycle otherwise having Step 3 is huge for canadians and it is also good for those that took too much time to study for step 1 or 2 since taking step 3 means your program won't have to worry about you not taking it by the end of PGY1 since its out of thew ay early. it also shows that you can take it and pass it without taking an exhorbitant amount of time off.

    so again, i don't think it's your rotations or visa status. it's more your scores and lack of extracurriculars that give you a blank sheet for PDs to look at.

  7. #7
    carribdoc is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    I will be doing Step 3 in November, and that is why I decided to start enrolling in community college courses in January. I did meet a medical student from the US who did his medical school in Ukraine a few days ago. He is not a US Citizen, but a greencard holder. Last year he applied with step 1 score in the mid 230's, and a step 2 score in the high 220's. and he applied to over 80 programs, and received 2 interviews not matching in either. Very similiar story that he did not obtain a college degree, and went for a 6 year English medical program in Ukraine.

    The competition is stiff. Remember everyone who applies for residency has passed Step 1 and Step 2 at a minimum, and when a program gets 3000k applicants like these for 5-10 seats, there is a lot more that goes into play than just step scores.

  8. #8
    PnS11 is offline Senior Member 6123 points
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    you know everybody else's scores, but you don't know your own?

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