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Thread: I love San Raffaele University and Want to Share

  1. #1
    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
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    I love San Raffaele University and Want to Share

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    Because I do and I do. I would like to establish a proper place for boosting of San Raffaele because it seems to be clouding and distracting from other threads in this forum. San Raffaele is a great school with many great/quality students and many great quality teachers/professors and people should know that as well.

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    I ask the first question, lastly : how is the education quality in San Raffaele? Can you, people, give some idea in details? Ok, the professors are good, but for instance how far do their proficiency go? How is the interactivity, can you get all the answers of your questions in classroom (which is very much important.. I have read a critical about Harvard once that the student is only a number for the professor, and they dont know the students' names.. also students cant ask questions in classroom)? Is the method classical or PBL?

    Is there any chance also to see how the clinical studies are? Can the student get in contact directly with the patient, or are they limited with only observation?

    Theoretical/practical, by all aspects how is the quality? Can everybody put their own point of view?
    As long as the university doesnt collapse and offer a quality education, then no problem..

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    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
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    The quality of the education seems ok. I do not think it would deviate from what one would find in any school. In the first year we had a few outstanding professors 1) Michele Arneodo for Physics 2) Andrea Moro as part of Humanities 3) Mauro Freccero for Chemistry and Organic Chemistry. I would say these were the best professors I have ever seen in their fields (they are all visiting professors so I do not know if they are a permanent part of the program - 2 are from Pavia and 1 is from University of Torino). We had 2 really bad professors who I could not understand what they were talking about (this will present a big challenge come testing time). All of the others would seem to be regular, ok professors as far as teaching goes - not necessarily unusually dynamic or engaging or involved in groundbreaking research, but certainly capable of teaching their subjects. We also had some excellent credentialed professors who were just not great in front of a class room.

    The professors are proficient in their subjects, many are involved in research as well (I did not look up each professors research or publications, but I did for some). We did have a fairly frequent rotation of teachers though in some classes where things got a bit choppy. Also, some classes were taught also by post docs rather than the professors themselves. I would say the faculty is representative of a good school.

    One thing that was unusual is that as we got further into classes the slides we saw became increasingly more Italian language. This happened with a few teachers in a few classes, so it seemed there were at least a few teachers who were translating their slides form the Italian course of either MD or Biotechnology into English and maybe didn't get all the way through. I have no way of knowing at this point how well our course work is preparing me for the USMLE.

    Interactivity in classes is encouraged by each professor and is also entertained, but is seemingly not common in Italian learning. Our class is predominantly Italian educated. But if you ask questions (and I did) people are very receptive. The only exception I had to this was when I found errors in some of the class materials in one particular class. I broached the topic in private with one particular professor (not language issues) and that professor became aggressively hostile, so I dropped the topic after that. That was one specific person and class and is an exception.

    Among the teachers the students here are not numbers. Our class numbers only 39 people, next years class is supposedly 60 though so I do not know how that will change. The teachers are personable, accessible, and very helpful for the most part. If you interact with the teachers they will know your name and maybe your phone number or facebook page.

    I would say overall I am pretty happy with the teaching staff here and it is on par with what I expected.

    I do not know the difference or meaning of classical or PBL method. I know we have been in a classroom almost all year with 1 day spent doing a BLS (Basic Life Support) class at another location, and acouple of statistics classes were held in the computer room. There was one afternoon field trip to the Pinoteca at Brera (not sure of spelling) as part of Humanities, but that teacher left the school last semester so I do not know if that is a regular part of the program. The classes seem like regular university classes.

    I have seen nothing in clinical as part of the program, other than the BLS, but that involved a first aid dummy and not patients. I have visited patients at the hospital probably about 20 times this past year on my own time. The hospital seems modern, well equipped, and capable.

    I did have the occasion to speak with a doctor on one of these visits. He had a professional English, meaning that he has read and could understand terms in English. Many Italians have exposure to English, especially on a professional basis from reading books and journals, but are not as comfotable writing English and very uncomfortable speaking in English. That was my impression, and I feel this is very common in Italy in general. I did not see that staff communicated in English. Most of the patients I met were from Southern Italy, none of them spoke English.

    I had no clinical experience as part of the course so far, so I have nothing to offer with respect to patient contact or how the situation looks with respect to the course.

    I will think about the rest of the questions and post in a bit.

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminFlom View Post
    ...I do not know the difference or meaning of classical or PBL method...
    To my knowledge;
    In classical system, you take first the theoreticals and over this you get in diseases and clinical work..
    IN Problem Based Learning form the zero point you take scenarios and weawe the knowledge around it.. in little study groups, you yourself gather all relevant data, you make the research.. so this system is more self-study, self-motivation oriented.. you are the driving force.. the system in Humanitas is PBL for instance..
    ________

    The only basic problem in intl. EU med schools for me (in the good ones) is not to offer a tough clinical hands-on experience.. so I always turn around this point.. in all threads of all schools I scan this point the most.. it would be good to hear something clear about this aspect as well.. in time we will see anyway..

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    DominoBoss is offline Newbie
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    The course is excellent, you get what you paid for. The course is highly interactive made possible by the small number of students in the course and a great availability of the professors. They really want the course to work and it seems it is, quite nicely so in fact.

    The cost of the course may seem steep. Certain students have the amazing luck to pay for the school tuition and they understand this. As for financial aid, contrary to what is said, does exist, there are ways (in reasonable limits) to provide students with financial aid. One thing must be stated clearly: Italian law grants financial aid provided the student does not already have a degree. Benjaminflom, I think this is why you are not able to receive financial aid.

    The curriculum is innovative and attractive, with introduction to surgery and suture training early in the second year, with clinical rotation in the subsequent years, so again, Benjaminflom there is clinical in the program, not only BLS.

    The University has produced world class students and academics, some even surpassing american students in the USMLE exam. The level of teaching is high, no doubt about it.

    Socialy, the university has a very open view on foreign students and welcomes them providing extensive help and assistance with immigration and housing.

    Professors are highly qualified although they are not perfect. Some professors have shown to be much bett at their work than at teaching, this has not however prevented the students from learning the subject taught by the professors in the question.

    Attention!! --> Benjaminflom is part of a course of 39. They are the first students of this course, you can almost say that they are the pioneers of the "new kind" of doctors, and for this there are condemed to be guinea pigs, errors and faults WILL arise in the first year of the course, it is innevitable. But as a first year, it seems to have been a very good year except for a bumpy organisation, which again is part the beginning.

    All in all the course is very very and should still evolve in what seems to be a thriving University, Vita-Salute San Raffaele.
    karpatri and marcomontagna like this.

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    Sushi4045's Avatar
    Sushi4045 is offline Junior Member 519 points
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    I am sorry that I will be unprofessional this time.

    But your username reminds me of RickRoss: Rick Ross - Hustlin' - YouTube

    Are you hustling everyday?

    Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by DominoBoss View Post
    The course is excellent, you get what you paid for. The course is highly interactive made possible by the small number of students in the course and a great availability of the professors. They really want the course to work and it seems it is, quite nicely so in fact.

    The cost of the course may seem steep. Certain students have the amazing luck to pay for the school tuition and they understand this. As for financial aid, contrary to what is said, does exist, there are ways (in reasonable limits) to provide students with financial aid. One thing must be stated clearly: Italian law grants financial aid provided the student does not already have a degree. Benjaminflom, I think this is why you are not able to receive financial aid.

    The curriculum is innovative and attractive, with introduction to surgery and suture training early in the second year, with clinical rotation in the subsequent years, so again, Benjaminflom there is clinical in the program, not only BLS.

    The University has produced world class students and academics, some even surpassing american students in the USMLE exam. The level of teaching is high, no doubt about it.

    Socialy, the university has a very open view on foreign students and welcomes them providing extensive help and assistance with immigration and housing.

    Professors are highly qualified although they are not perfect. Some professors have shown to be much bett at their work than at teaching, this has not however prevented the students from learning the subject taught by the professors in the question.

    Attention!! --> Benjaminflom is part of a course of 39. They are the first students of this course, you can almost say that they are the pioneers of the "new kind" of doctors, and for this there are condemed to be guinea pigs, errors and faults WILL arise in the first year of the course, it is innevitable. But as a first year, it seems to have been a very good year except for a bumpy organisation, which again is part the beginning.

    All in all the course is very very and should still evolve in what seems to be a thriving University, Vita-Salute San Raffaele.
    karpatri likes this.

  7. #7
    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidiboom View Post
    I ask the first question, lastly : how is the education quality in San Raffaele? Can you, people, give some idea in details? Ok, the professors are good, but for instance how far do their proficiency go? How is the interactivity, can you get all the answers of your questions in classroom (which is very much important.. I have read a critical about Harvard once that the student is only a number for the professor, and they dont know the students' names.. also students cant ask questions in classroom)? Is the method classical or PBL?

    Is there any chance also to see how the clinical studies are? Can the student get in contact directly with the patient, or are they limited with only observation?

    Theoretical/practical, by all aspects how is the quality? Can everybody put their own point of view?
    As long as the university doesnt collapse and offer a quality education, then no problem..
    I am not a International MD student but I have spent 6 yrs in the Italian Med course. Probably my experience may be different since the differences in the two curricula but since there's no other effective way to have a clue on the 2-6yrs I may give some notions derived from the italian course that I believe should be implemented in the international MD.

    San Raffaele University has always made a key point of teaching the strong practical involvement of students in clinical activities.
    Usually the first curricolar experiences start at the 2nd year of course, in part by training on dummies, in part by shadowing in clinical departments in association to theoretical classes.
    Spots of practical activities go on during the 3rd year where also shadowing is strenghten and, in the second hald of the year, first rotations begin.
    The most of the curricular rotation (not only shadowing but "hand on" work assisted by tutors) take place heavily in the 4th year going on untill the 6th year which is almost a "practical" year.
    Core rotations include Internal medicine and major surgeries but also minor rotations in specific branches (cardiology, urology, ophtalmology, paediatrics, psychiatrics et cetera).

    This so far regarding the core curricular activities. As for elective activities there are many chances beginning from the 3rd year in most of the departments (some departments would'nt allow you before you have passed the exam on that subject) and from the 2nd year in labs.
    Internships start from the 5th year and directly involves in numerous activities the student which by the end of the course must be at the level of a 1st year resident.

    However, what I believe is the most important thing is that there is an high openness towards students in the hospital and if you want to join a unit or a department in your free time and outside the core-elective offers, as well as if you want to attend OR's or the Emergency department during nights, rarely you will not be allowed. A friend of mine, as an example, years ago used to go to the hospital everyday at 6.00 to learn to make blood drawings. Myself I first attended an OR, suturing, at 3rd year after passing much time in out-patient clinic and department in my free time. Many students do that and you're allowed to if the tutors of the department agree. Personally I believe that is the best thing. I have indirect experience with other universities in Italy and I know that rarely you have those opportunities, even in the best athens. Usually students from San Raffaele are valued for their having strong practical skills.

    As for foreign countries I have not much clue. I only know from my previous travels that rarely med students in US approach clinics before their 3rd year or end of the 2nd (which are the 4th and the 5th in Italy) and that some shadowing happens at their 2nd year sometimes (again the 4th in Italy).

    Just a note: everything explained in even more precocious when talking about labs. Students are really encouraged to join labs since the beginning. Not many do and that's a pity in my opinion. Even those who prefer clinical careers should have a lab experience in their med education! Regarding this issue, students attending labs are given often opportunities to carry on their research interests abroad during summer holidays.

  8. #8
    Sushi4045's Avatar
    Sushi4045 is offline Junior Member 519 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan_MD View Post
    Just a note: everything explained in even more precocious when talking about labs. Students are really encouraged to join labs since the beginning. Not many do and that's a pity in my opinion. Even those who prefer clinical careers should have a lab experience in their med education! Regarding this issue, students attending labs are given often opportunities to carry on their research interests abroad during summer holidays.
    Milan_MD, I definitely agree with your opinion regarding spending time in labs.

    If you could, I would like to kindly ask you to answer the following questions,

    1)Please define core curriculum and electives. Do electives count as academic credits? or it's just an optional volunteering thing happens between a student and a professor.
    2)For example, if I am interested in immunology research, how do I approach to a professor who conducts research in that area? How easy is to get into?
    3)Please correct me if I am wrong, you said students can only enter labs from the beginning of second academic year as electives according to..
    This so far regarding the core curricular activities. As for elective activities there are many chances beginning from the 3rd year in most of the departments (some departments would'nt allow you before you have passed the exam on that subject) and from the 2nd year in labs.
    Internships start from the 5th year and directly involves in numerous activities the student which by the end of the course must be at the level of a 1st year resident.
    What if you are interested in getting in a lab in the first year? I understand that the first semester might be too early. But what about the 2nd semester.

    ---
    Thank you.

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    In labs what exactly you learn? Is it histology work.. or?

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    Sushi4045's Avatar
    Sushi4045 is offline Junior Member 519 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidiboom View Post
    In labs what exactly you learn? Is it histology work.. or?
    I am thinking he is talking about research labs, not the labs from daily coursework.

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