Sponsored Links
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
Like Tree4Likes

Thread: Direct infos from San Raffaele student living in Milan!

  1. #1
    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Direct infos from San Raffaele student living in Milan!

    Advertisements



    Hi guys! I am a last year med student at San Raffaele in Milan (unluckly on the "italian" program..) almost approaching my degree! I got some friends all over the world that joined this forum and continuously ask me for advice and suggestion to get into the international med program here in Milan. Thus, I decided to join the forum to not copy-attach my answers thousands of times by e-mail and possibly to be of any help also for any other our there! So please feel free to contact me for any doubt, request or information regarding San Raffaele University on his whole or the International Med School. I spent really everyday of my last 6 years over here so I feel preatty confident on any topic, lol! In addition I am from Milan so may be able to answer to question also on the city and the life you could meet!

    g.

  2. #2
    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    99
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Living in Milan Step 1 - House

    The previous post may be bordering on SPAM, because the above post was copied and pasted in part to multiple threads. But, this is an important discussion to have because people who go to San Raffaele have to live somewhere in the area.

    Finding living accomodations for me was very challenging in Milan (city - I did not look at surrounding areas). In fact, after a short moment of thought I may be the only non Italian speaking student in our class (we had 6 - based on who attended the optional crash course in Italian during the first few weeks) that did not live in the dormatory last year.

    Finding housing is very different for people who do not speak Italian, or more importantly do not live in Milan. You will find many postings and listings for apartments for rent, but there is a big difference between finding an ad and having someone rent you an apartment.

    The main barrier to renting an apartment for foreign students will be 1) cost 2) busta paga/guarantzia.

    The cost will be about 1,000 euro per month, unless you rent a place with housemates in which case you can split the rent of a larger apartment and it will come out to about 700 euro each per month. The challenging part for me, not coming from the EU, is that the rent changes every month depending on the exchange rate from US dollars. Also, you have to go to the post office to pay the gas and electric bills, which took me some practice before it was comfortable.

    Also note, it is customary in Italy if you rent with an agency to pay 7 months rent in advance (before moving in). 3 months of rent prepaid, 3 months of security deposit, and 1 month to the agency. Listings that are private (or without agency) will save you at least that 1 month of payment to the agency. Direct landlords may also be more flexible (if they like you) in that in Italy both the tenant and the landlord pay the real estate agency. Without the agency not only do you save the fee, but the landlord does as well, so all of what you pay him is cash in his pocket.

    To get internet in your apartment is also very challenging. It took us (myself and my wife who is an Italian citizen) 6 months to get connected with the company FastWeb. They lost 2 of our applications for service. Also the only method of payment they accepted was credit card, and they only were able to process credit cards that were issued from Italian banks. They are supposed to be the best broadband company and I have no experience with other companies, hopefully others will share.

    2. The busta paga/garantzia:

    Busta paga is a pay stub. You would be required to bring the last few pay stubs from your job to establish your income, and that you can afford to pay the rent and expenses on the apartment. Each landlord has his own requirements from income relative to the rent.

    If you are not from Italy you will not have a job here. If you are in Italy on a student visa it is illegal for you to have a full/part time job. In short, you will not have this document. The alternative to having this document is to have Italian tax returns, which you will likely not have either.

    This brings up garantzia which is essentially a personal guarantee from some one who makes money or has assets in Italy. It is customary for Italian parents to sign guarantees for their children well into life, for school to purchase a car, anything that is financed to younger people. If you have no family (family close enough to be willing to backstop your debts) in Italy this will be another issue. The guarantor also has to be sufficiently credit worthy to satisfy the landlord.

    Italians in general do not understand the importance of these documents, because they are very commonplace in Italian society (it is taken for granted that you have them). There is almost no provision for getting around this. There are some places that specifically rent to students (I do not know about foreign students).

    The Segretari di Studenti had some info on a rental complex and a real estate agency that specialized in students. I know the complex was like studio/loft apartments designed for singles I was told. 1 or 2 students did tell me they had luck with the rental agency, but they were both Italian native.

    So you are left with finding someone who would be willing to take a chance on you and rent to you anyway. This will probably be without a contract (called nero or black as in black market), and the person will have to like you. In this type of arrangement expect to pay your rent in cash every month.

    Having the landlord like you can be difficult because each landlord is looking for something different. Some want to rent to you with a contract, others without a contract, some want families, some want single people. You will never know what the person is looking for in advance, you will only find out after you meet. They will either not call you the next day, or if you call them they will tell you it is rented to someone else who came to see the apartment before you.

    The last challenge is Italian. This is not listed above because this is a challenge you can actually mitigate. You are in Italy - you have to manage to communicate with Italians, which will most liekly be in Italian. Some brokers did speak halting English, but I never met a landlord who spoke English. The hospital at San Raffaele is also in Italian - so get started.

    Good Luck!

    I hope other foreign students at San Raffaele will share their experiences here so we can all learn from them.
    Last edited by BenjaminFlom; 08-10-2011 at 05:27 PM. Reason: I saw a typo
    Sushi4045 likes this.

  3. #3
    Sushi4045's Avatar
    Sushi4045 is offline Junior Member 519 points
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    85
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Wow thanks Benjamin. I'll keep in mind. Thanks a lot dude!
    Last edited by Sushi4045; 08-10-2011 at 05:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    *** NOTE: I WAS UNABLE TO POST LINKS BECAUSE I HAVE FEW POSTS, IF YOU NEED CITATION LINKS (MARKED AS CIT. IN THE TEXT) WRITE ME!


    Dear all,

    Since some users persist in adopting a fairly rude and aggressive conversation I may give some brief notes.

    1. No spamming, as Ben suggested and as I realized it could be the best solution I opened a new thread (cit. "It seems the first paragraph of the last post is misplaced, maybe a new thread should be started regarding the Italian program at San Raffaele, where you and your friends can share your experiences at San Raffaele and offer some perspective and insight."). Anyhow the few lines I wrote are only an introduction to myself: according to Ben's statement you have been bordering spam at least three times without reason. (CIT.).

    2. This thread was not specifically intended for housing (you could open a specific topic) but I may give my experience if useful,

    3. Finding an house has always been not an easy matter for any student in Italy as anywhere else. Personally I spent some months studying abroad (European Union but also Boston) and I know there are many efforts to overcome. I'll be brief and simple, trying not to giving a single experience but to refer to official documents and/or the experience of literally hundreds of students I have met in the last 6yrs (non only studying at San Raffaele), among which many foreign students.I also specify that:
    - I have personally lived in rented flats;
    - I have relatives (also a sister) and friends (mostly students, some foreign) that live in rented flats in Milan;
    - I have relatives that rent flats (also in Milan).



    a. Milan is known for being the most international city in Italy, attended by a large number of foreign people and companies. Many people (maybe not in the elderly age) speak at some level english which has been a core subject at most of italian high schools for some decades. Language barriers can be met everywhere and can't be hidden.

    b. Finding postings and listings is easy, of course, finding your house more complicated: again that's a known fact that a prospective student should consider when moving to study abroad and doesn't want to rely on accomodation provided by university (maybe because it can't suit a whole family).

    c. Cost for apts may change greatly depending on size, area of the city and so on. Prizes for indipendent 1 room apt in the city (not suburbs) and even in good areas may start from 350-400euros/month (it took me 5 minutes to make a simple online research.. CIT). Of course there are no limits to higher costs. Shared rooms or dormitory may have similar or slightly lower costs.

    d. The rent, of course, is in euros and it is determined when signing the contract of location. Of course the Dollar/EU may change the actual cost for a US student but that would be the same for any foreign student in any country having to deal with value changes.

    e. Gas and electric bills may easily be payed by bank without going to the postal office. You can even pay them at a SISAL store (you can find at least one every 200mt and one in our university as well) or by APT or you can easily getting a POSTE (Postal Service) account for free and recharging monthly a small amount of money depending on your expenses.

    f. in Italy is ILLEGAL to pay more of three months in advance. Usually, these include the payment of the first month and a maximum of other two of cautional deposit (which will be given you back at the end of the contract with interests of 2.5%). The deposit represents an addurence for the landlord in the case the student won't pay the monthly rate or will damage the house. Please refer to these documents but you may find many more easily.
    CIT

    g. Agencies fee are of course supplementary deals with expenses that may vary according to each agency.

    h. The most qualified broadband companies in Italy are Telecom Italia and Vodafone Italia (both having more than 34 millions users each), Fastweb is only the first to have massively adopted broadband (many many years ago..) and the most "popular" for TV commercials (but only 2.4 millions users). Getting a broadband with the first two companies is easy and quick ( I have done it in one day, the provide you a temporary service with a medium speed broadband untill they perform the cable connections for high speed). They accept credit cards from any bank that refers to the VISA or DINERS or AMENICAN EXPRESS circuit as well. Again POSTE is still valid. Anyhow that's the matter if you want a fixed contract: if you prefer a monthly usage (rechargeble) you can immediatly get a internet USB key paying in cash. (CIT;CIT).
    Any warranty of payment (Busta paga is one of these) is not strictly required but supplementary in any contract (cit. CIT). Some landlords may ask for it since in Italy this is the only warranty in the case the monthly rate is not payed (monthly rate are payed at the end of the month usually) and, most of all, to prove to the landlord that you can actually afford that apartment and you are not cheating or in the condition to not honour the contract. The problem applies also to italian students and, of course, only when not deciding to have accomodation in the university campus. What is actually required is any proof of financial stability may it be an account in a bank or a stable income from you or anybody else. You may explain your situation and agree with the landlord to provide these proofs in any further way (likely even abroad): the agreement is between parts and has not strict limitations.

    l. I would strongly discourage any without-contract ("black") renting without a contract because you may have no rights and you may have legal problems.

    m. I may suggest you to carefully check postings and listings in advance and ask all the required information at your first meeting (call) honestly depicting your situation. You will surely faces many "no", as i did in US and other countries, but luckly you will find a "yes".

    n. Italian of course is a main matter. My personal opinion is that even if many people (everybody in the university and every doctor in the hospital) in Italy speaks english it may fruitful for anybody to giving himself the chance to know step by step a new language as well as a new culture and a new way of life. I am sure that if you meet any problem with the language ( many over50yrs old persons may have language problems) you will be able to find dozens of collegues and friends in the university that would be happy to help you with the translation.

    I must say good luck to you all too! And if you need any further help once you get in Med School at San Raffaele please feel free to contact me!

    I hope these information could be not vague or inaccurate or even misleading and that we have a bit clarified the situation!
    Sushi4045 likes this.

  5. #5
    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    99
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I am sorry, I thought this was a thread for San Raffaele students who are living in Milan sharing with other students or prospective students about how to live in Milan and what it is like. Please guide me as to the intended purpose of this thread so I can comply.

  6. #6
    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminFlom View Post
    I am sorry, I thought this was a thread for San Raffaele students who are living in Milan sharing with other students or prospective students about how to live in Milan and what it is like. Please guide me as to the intended purpose of this thread so I can comply.
    Not to worry Ben! We may discuss any topic/subject you or someone else prefers! I am too not confident with the off-topic matter! Living in Milan and what it is like sounds a great topic for me and I think I may be more than helpful!

  7. #7
    karpatri is offline Junior Member 513 points
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    35
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan_MD View Post
    Hi guys! I am a last year med student at San Raffaele in Milan (unluckly on the "italian" program..)
    Hey, I am just curious to know why you would say that you are "unluckly on the 'italian' program" from what I have been hearing, I think that the Italian program has less problems (since its been around for long) compared to the english one.

  8. #8
    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    99
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    7 months of rent up front to reiterate, 3 months of anticipo (advance rent) 3 months of cauzione (security deposit), 1 month agenzia (realtor/broker fee). You are not paying more than 3 months of rent in advance, but you are still paying 7 months up front.

    This is a perfect example of why this forum is important, because people who live in Italy and grew up in the culture have a different way of communicating. As a person who has been renting apartments to people in the US for about 8 years now, I can attest to the fact that it is much different here. I am curious Milan MD, what is your experience is in renting apartments in or around Milan without a busta paga and without a guarantee from a relative?

    I am not a "young" person in most places (35 years old), but in Italy I am. Many people my age in Italy are still living at home with their parents. The society here is very rigid and there is little flexibilty shown if you cannot conform. I dedicated 4 weeks to looking for apartments during the first semester and came up empty. My wife is Italian and after 2 weeks of us looking together in second semester, she could not believe how difficult things were as was thinking to give up.

    We happened to be standing in the street together walking on the way to a friend's birthday dinner and we stopped to read a for rent sign on a building. As we were standing there, reading that sign, a lady approached us from out of nowhere and told us to call another sign on the next block. Thankfully that lady came to talk to us, because that is the only way we have a place to live now.

    Another example is saying that prices for a room in Milan start at about 400 euro. This technically is true, but you cannot budget 400 euro for rent because on top of actual rent, there is also spese, electricity, gas, internet (maybe telephone and TV). All of the common costs are shared among the group of people renting the apartment. This can mean 1 or 2 people in each bedroom and 2 - 3 people in the livingroom. Renting a room in the city of Milan will cost more like 500 euro to live in a decent area, and additional expenses will make it cost overall about 700-750 euro. You cannot come to Milano with 400 euro in your pocket and expect to have a place to live. We have 3 guys in our class sharing an apartment in Chrescenzago (the next stop from San Raffaele - Cascina Gobba - going toward Milano) and they are paying 700 each per month. My niece who goes to Boconi was sharing a place in Milano in a completely different area called Piazza Napoli and she was also paying 700 per month.
    Last edited by BenjaminFlom; 08-13-2011 at 07:19 PM. Reason: typos

  9. #9
    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by karpatri View Post
    Hey, I am just curious to know why you would say that you are "unluckly on the 'italian' program" from what I have been hearing, I think that the Italian program has less problems (since its been around for long) compared to the english one.
    Yes of course! As I have clarified in other posts I'm fairly happy of my md education. My "unluckly" was ironic and referred to the fact that if I had to apply for med school today I would choose the International MD program for 3/4 reasons:
    1. According to my opioni it seems that the new program has taken all the best from the italian curriculum trying to avoid/solve the problems arisen in the italian one in many years (of course also the italian is getting better but changing is more difficutl than rebuilding)
    2. I'm striving to study for USMLE but it's so difficult when you're burdened by other studies or duties.. I wished it would have been a step in my education.
    3. I wish I could have classes in english, to practice myself, and a curriculum more internationally-oriented to open more opportunities for the residency/future.
    4. I have dozens of friends from almost every part of the wordl and I deeply enjoy being in a multicultural internationally stimulating context. An international class would have been great!

    That's all! ironic comment, happy of my md course but would have been much happier of the new one!

  10. #10
    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I repat myself since my (probably bad) english is not well understood.

    Illegal to five more than 3 months "anticipo-advance rent" (which is a maximum and MUST include a caution). No all agency ask for one month, depends on the agency and most of all, obviously, agency costs applies only if choosing agency. You're paying a maximum of 3 months+agency cost, otherwise they are cheating you.

    Surely it is, different countries have their own ways of dealing on many matters and surely an italian-native would better understand these processes. I don't have rented personally but I may ask all the required details: do you want exactly the names, birthdate and name of the pet of any person? Just joking. As I told, the guarantee could be everything that certifies your financial reliability to afford the rent.

    I'm sorry I thought as a fresher you were a 20yrs old person! What you say is true but it's mostly due to the high cost of life in Italy and in particular in cities like Milan compared to the average incomes of young people. Affording (buy) an house for a young couple in Italy is really difficult. I am just wondering: is your wife Italian-living or Italian-born? How did you manage the question of "garanzia" that you told before you couldn't manage?

    I had already said about extra expenses and costs. These vary depending on you , sometimes some are included (heat, AC, etc) sometimes not. You don't pay for TV in Italy, most of tv channels are free. I would just note that not everybody lives 1-2 people in each bedroom and 2-3 people in the livingroom.

    I wouldn't say that 700-750 euro are the minimum required to live in Milan in an indipendent apt. Nevertheless, I must agree that nobody is telling to come to Milan wuth 400 euro in the pocket and expect to have a place to live. Certainly is not simple but I am sure that with a reciprocal help every obstacle may be overcome and it makes me likely suggest again the chance of staying in the residence for the first year while evaluating the situation.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Places to rent/Housing in Milan
    By Sushi4045 in forum Vita-Salute San Raffaele University
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-16-2011, 02:11 AM
  2. What's avg. cost of living as student in Dominica?
    By student0816 in forum Ross University School of Medicine
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-30-2010, 12:38 AM
  3. advanced standing infos!!
    By syrianspirit in forum American University of Antigua (AUA)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-30-2009, 07:24 PM
  4. UASD student, now living in US
    By macanudojohn in forum UNIBE and Dominican Medical Schools
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-24-2008, 08:05 PM
  5. Student Loans - fund 100% tuition & living?
    By nwprestudent2004 in forum Medical University of the Americas (MUA) Nevis
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-03-2003, 01:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •