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Thread: Is San Raffaele really on the verge of financial collapse???

  1. #1
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Is San Raffaele really on the verge of financial collapse???

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    Hey people,

    What do you think about these info:
    San Raffaele on verge of financial collapse | MaltaToday
    San Raffaele Hospital Vice President Mario Cal Commits Suicide - Pictures - Zimbio

    Is this only about the hospital or university+affiliated hospital are altogether collapsing? What is this??? If there is such a severe financial crisis, then how can they enroll students?

    Is there any current/prospective student here that has any idea about this point?

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    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
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    The pictures misidentify the university building as the hospital building. The suicide took place on the 6th floor of the university building where the administrative offices are. The hospital is the set of brownish buildings.

    We got a communication saying that the Foundation of San Raffaele and the Hospital of San Raffaele have problems, but not the university. There have been allegations of mishandling of money and all the parts are controlled within the same group, there have been no straight answers to seemingly straight questions so far just spin:

    There is a communication saying that the hospital is great and saves lives, and you cannot put a price on saving lives, etc... This is great and true, but the people working in the hospital and staff did not run up a 900 million euro debt - so not related.

    We got a second communication saying how great the school was and how well it ranked, and that things were going well, they are opening new courses... a lot of information which is good for people who are graduating now, but nothing about next year and what the future looks like.

    Also nothing has come out that would reasonably explain the financial situation of the organization that does not smell really bad. (Read the Corriere della Sera for San Raffaele - in Italian)

    Facts are that most of our teachers in the International MD Program have come from the foundation and I cannot see how you can run a medical school without a functioning affiliated hospital. These are just questions that I have from observation, but I am sorry that I do not have any answers to provide... because I am in the same situation of not knowing.

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    Sushi4045's Avatar
    Sushi4045 is offline Junior Member 519 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminFlom View Post
    Facts are that most of our teachers in the International MD Program have come from the foundation and I cannot see how you can run a medical school without a functioning affiliated hospital. These are just questions that I have from observation, but I am sorry that I do not have any answers to provide... because I am in the same situation of not knowing.
    Good point. Hope our future won't get affected by the current debt situation. Let's see what happens.

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    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
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    Hi guys! I am a last year med student at San Raffaele in Milan (unluckly on the "italian" program..) almost approaching my degree! I got some friends all over the world that joined this forum and continuously ask me for advice and suggestion to get into the international med program here in Milan. Thus, I decided to join the forum to not copy-attach my answers thousands of times by e-mail and possibly to be of any help also for any other our there! So please feel free to contact me for any doubt, request or information regarding San Raffaele University on his whole or the International Med School. I spent really everyday of my last 6 years over here so I feel preatty confident on any topic, lol! In addition I am from Milan so may be able to answer to question also on the city and the life you could meet!

    So, coming back to the topic! I have been getting a bit of infos and as far as I knowThe financial situation at San Raffaele Hospital is bad (consider that similar circustances currently occur also in other Italian hospitals read today's Corriere della Sera for Policlinico Gemelli, the largest hospital in Rome and its EUR 700 million debt...). It seems that the situation San Raffaele Hospital is now facing is also possibly due to errors of the previous administrators of the Foundation, and the new Board of Directors has just appointed new managers from Italian top institution to lead the Hospital out of the crisis. Moreover, a very strict reorganization plan has been set for San Raffaele, effective next Sept 15, and a list of important investors are ready to help the hospital in this crisis. It needs to be pointed out that there is great interest in the Italian political, economic and financial community to help what is considered one of the best Italian hospital and research center. In any case, the clinical, scientific and research activities of the Institution are proceeding without any hesitation or reduction. It is difficult to receive precise answers at the moment, because the specific strategies are being planned in these very days. A lot of rumours can be found on newspapers but as all us students know or can verify personally most of them often turn to be inconsistent or unprecise. It has been told that an official plan will be presented in September, but again this will be just a new organizational plan, since the existence and the current activity of the Hospital and of the Research center are not LUCKLY! under discussion.

    Anyhow that's the situation of the hospital itself. On the other hand, also according to the Italian laws and regulations, the University is a completely independent entity. Official referents have publically stated that its financial position is stable and its assets are strong and, as far as I have read, the university has never been addressed by newspapers in any moment regarding this financial difficulty. As stated in the previous posts, it ranked first in all the official rankings of Italian Universities and even if obviously the University is interested in what's happening in the Hospital and Research center they have reassured us about the fact that nothing will change.

    So, in conclusion I sincerely believe that a current or prospective student of this university should not be worried by this situation and he should still value the great opportunities that this med school can provide. Personally I think that one (also me in residency?!) should even positively follow this situation since I am sure that the new board and the new management will likely provide new resources, improvements and expansion!

    I have been a bit long but I hope it was a comprehensive answer! Let me know if you need more info!

    Best,
    g.

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    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
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    I Need More Info

    I sincerely hope Milan MD is right, as of now I have invested over a year of my life in San Raffaele. I am glad to have multiple perspectives on the topic in this forum, especially from other people at San Raffaele. It seems the first paragraph of the last post is misplaced, maybe a new thread should be started regarding the Italian program at San Raffaele, where you and your friends can share your experiences at San Raffaele and offer some perspective and insight. The friends I have in the Italian program seem happy, maybe you can share why you feel "unlucky" to be there.

    "A lot of rumours can be found on newspapers but as all us students know or can verify personally most of them often turn to be inconsistent or unprecise."

    -- This is a claim that was part of a propoganda letter we received and one that was posted in Italian (Cari studenti dell’Università Vita-Salute San Raffaele… Lettera della Direzione generale dell’Ateneo | Phenomenology Lab) on the internal student website and other websites (last week it came out that there was some question over the author of the Italian letter as apparently she was involved in an expensive apartment purchase near Milan - like 650,000 euro - with 8 checks San Raffaele, pista del petrolio). But there have never been any specifics examples of innaccuracy on inconsistancy cited against any of the newspaper articles or reporting. There is no reason not to believe the newspaper articles to be true. The articles list names, facts and details, meaning they are getting information from the inside; and that is the only credible record that stands as of now.

    With respect to,

    "It seems that the situation San Raffaele Hospital is now facing is also possibly due to errors of the previous administrators of the Foundation, and the new Board of Directors has just appointed new managers from Italian top institution to lead the Hospital out of the crisis. Moreover, a very strict reorganization plan has been set for San Raffaele, effective next Sept 15, and a list of important investors are ready to help the hospital in this crisis. It needs to be pointed out that there is great interest in the Italian political, economic and financial community to help what is considered one of the best Italian hospital and research center. In any case, the clinical, scientific and research activities of the Institution are proceeding without any hesitation or reduction."

    -- I am curious to know what your source of information is. None of this information has been written about publicly, and there have been no financial statements, press releases, or public announcements that I have seen verifying any of this information you suggest. BTW this article San Raffaele: vertici a sindacati, stipendi garantiti - - Libero-News.it where San Raffaele has to make an announcement that in the meantime salaries are guaranteed to be paid and the situation is uncertain for the future, does not seem like business as usual, though they may be talking about the research foundation and not the university.

    "It has been told that an official plan will be presented in September, but again this will be just a new organizational plan, since the existence and the current activity of the Hospital and of the Research center are not LUCKLY! under discussion."

    -- Actually what has been said about mid September is that if a credible plan is not presented the local magistrate(s) in Milan will force San Raffaele into bankruptcy and the assets of San Raffaele will be foreclosed on. I am curious to know how a 6th year med student would know what is under discussion. I did not know med students were partaking in the discussions?

    "Anyhow that's the situation of the hospital itself. On the other hand, also according to the Italian laws and regulations, the University is a completely independent entity."

    -- Italian laws and regulations? An authoritative statement of fact the university being independent. Med student? This is what I read San Raffaele, spunta un'altra cordata - Corriere della Sera - cordata can be translated as "lifeline." BTW this would be an article about the university.

    "they have reassured us about the fact that nothing will change"

    --Who is "they?" Every single newspaper says the situation is uncertain, Not just 1, but almost every single Italian newspaper with a website, Corriere della Sera, La Repubblica, Il Giornale, ilsole24ore - just to name a few. I would post articles but there are too many. Just search "San Raffaele salva" in google.it.

    "So, in conclusion I sincerely believe that a current or prospective student of this university should not be worried by this situation and he should still value the great opportunities that this med school can provide."

    -- Can is the operative word. There seems to be a very good group of professors, doctors, and researchers here that can provide a solid education - but it would seem they are hostage to this situation that they had no part in creating.

    "Personally I think that one (also me in residency?!) should even positively follow this situation since I am sure that the new board and the new management will likely provide new resources, improvements and expansion!"

    -- I hope for this as well, but this situation has been dragging on for months already and the longer it drags on the worse it looks and the less positive the outcome seems. The situation should not be uncertain for almost half a year (half a year since it started becoming public, a 900 million euro debt is not a surprise that comes out of nowhere). People's lives are in the balance: students, professors, researchers, doctors, secretaries, staff. Or better, the situation would not have come to pass to begin with. As far as future students, I think they would have to decide for themselves if they are willing to gamble with their lives on the basis of conjecture in an anonymous forum posting, but they should make decisions based on real facts not opinion and hopes. As a 6th year medical student you should be involved in writing your thesis, so you should be much better prepared to source what you write, in my humble opinion. Post some more links and data so we can all share in your optimism and confidence.If you have problems posting the links with only 1 post, send them to me and I will post them attributed to you.

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    MilanMD, no offense, but your voice is too much volunteering, even solicitous for the school.. why?

    I cant think any prospective student considers even to apply any school under these circumstances.. its good to wait for San Raffaele to weather this crisis and get on a straight, consistent track.. especially if they charge a 18.000$ tuition.. God, incredible! Really is it 18.000$ per year?

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    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
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    It is 16,000 euro ($22,720 USD) per year for our class which started this year, next year's class was raised to 18,000 euro ($25,560 USD) per year. Conversions were done at 1.42 if you do not want to do the math.

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    Sushi4045's Avatar
    Sushi4045 is offline Junior Member 519 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminFlom View Post
    It is 16,000 euro ($22,720 USD) per year for our class which started this year, next year's class was raised to 18,000 euro ($25,560 USD) per year. Conversions were done at 1.42 if you do not want to do the math.
    Do you also need to pay 18,000 Euro this year or you just have to pay 16,000 for six years?

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    BenjaminFlom is offline Junior Member 521 points
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    6 Years in Euro-pe

    I believe it is 16,000 euro for each year of all 6 years, just as next year's class would be 18,000 euro for each year for all 6 years (there was a 2,000 euro increase for next year's class). The Italian medical course I think is 11,000 or 11,500 euro each year for 6 years (MD Milan should be able to clarify this). I think doctors in the Italian public health system make about 24,000 - 30,000 euro per year. I think students in residency training in Italy make about 1,700 or 1,900 euro per month. I am sorry for typing euro so many times, but I do not have the symbol on my keyboard.

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    Milan_MD is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidiboom View Post
    MilanMD, no offense, but your voice is too much volunteering, even solicitous for the school.. why?

    I cant think any prospective student considers even to apply any school under these circumstances.. its good to wait for San Raffaele to weather this crisis and get on a straight, consistent track.. especially if they charge a 18.000$ tuition.. God, incredible! Really is it 18.000$ per year?
    Hi Bidiboom! No offense, don't worry, I appreciate opinions kindly exposed!

    My voice is actually volunteering and solicitous because I strongly believe that this university and this hospital have given me a lot and that they not deserve to be drag in mud like it is now happening in Italy. The owners (Foundation San Raffaele) surely have great faults but the university ( not belonging to the foundation but independent since few years ago) and the hospital (selfly administered but belonging to the foundation) have not since the financial crisis and the debt seem (no body knows, there are only suggestions!) to be connected to other investments that may affect the hospital indeed but not the university! I had a really great time here: of course is not gold everything you see but compared to other italian universities I had relations with it is really a positive situation. Thus, I feel part of this university as a student probably do and I like to spend an honest word on the topic!

    I have no time now to reply to the previous post I will later.
    I just wanted to explain (according to my personal experience and to my knowledge that I will certify) you, as my friends and everybody else that this is a good university and a nice community of students that is happy to be joined by foreign mates and, most of all, that the situation of the university won't surely change as well as the situation of the hospital may change but is likely (will give you all citation in next post, again) to not change either!

    I am sad that getting wrong or partial information someone may be too much worried and like you say may think" I cant think any prospective student considers even to apply any school under these circumstances.. ". I understand that but as a student (maybe older, maybe italian so better understanding the situation) I will suggest you to get a better documentation, possibly an official one, and then taking your decisions with calm and serenity.

    Hope that was ok for you, please let me know if you have further comments!

    Have a nice day! G.

    ps. Since I spent some months in HMS in Boston and I was planning to move there few years ago I think you may find interesting this citation from their website!

    "The average graduating debt for the HMS Class of 2010 was $113,943. The national average for all medical schools was $157,944. The national average when comparing private medical schools was $172,422."

    18.000x6=108k (153k in USD), fairly lower than private med school US average

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