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  1. #1
    jane3027 is offline Newbie
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    Last edited by jane3027; 11-30-2008 at 11:07 AM. Reason: delete

  2. #2
    DrVinsk is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Who Knows?

    The CS exam has become more and more of a potluck exam. It is ridiculous to be graded soley based upon one's interpretation of how you did. A physician in Philly might think you were great while one in Houston feels you sucked. The whole purpose of the exam originally was to provide some means to ensure candidates could speak, understand and be understood in English, and to overcome cultural differences that might interfere with practicing in America. However, the CS was also a good money maker so they kept it and now try to make it a legitimate exam for anyone regardless of background. As I read posts by recent examinees, it amazes what some people have and haven't done and still passed. It seems the recent trend is to fail people based on the patient note. When I took my exam in LA, I spoke with a guy at a coffee shop nearby who was also taking the exam. This guy was repeating. He graduated from UCLA medical school with honors and was an ICU nurse before med school. I find it hard to believe this guy could fail...but again who knows? As far as your little 'incident' again who knows? I wish you the best of luck, the exam is a money pit and useless. I've never heard of a form being given to anyone. If something bad comes out of it...protest the hell out of it.

  3. #3
    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    going over time more than once will be considered a testing irregualrity...and is probably what got you the form...
    i wouls suggest that you delete the actual info of your testing experience...i would be considered a violation of the non-disclosure agreement you signed with usmle---sure others do it, but they don't have it posted for all to see...
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  4. #4
    DrVinsk is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    yeah...i agree, good call Rokshana

  5. #5
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    Chopdoc is offline Senior Member 528 points
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    Testing irregularity. Seems clear.

    Now violating the non-disclosure agreement. Seems clear.

    I would delete that stuff, then get serious about this. We are well informed of the rules. Lives will depend on us following rules, that's why they are so inflexible about it. It's part of the test.

    The exam, IMHO, is extremely necessary. The IMGs had to do it for years before the US grads....then when the US grads started taking it....miracle of miracles....they were not passing as well as the IMGs.

    Obviously, the exam is important. Too many people are great academically but lost clinically. That is still a reality. UCLA, Harvard, Johns Hopkins.....I don't care where you come from....clinical skills need to be tested exactly how they are doing it IMHO.

    You can look at it as just "jumping through hoops" and a "money pit", or you can consider it something serious and important.

    Personally I think this stuff is serious and important....call it a personality flaw.

  6. #6
    DrVinsk is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Consider this...

    There are people who are clinically challenged, I agree. This simply shows the flaw of the medical education system in general. If a student has completed almost 90 weeks of rotations and they can't perform a basic patient encounter, then it only shows that there is too much emphasis on academic performance. This is how people with no personal skills can slip through the system. You claim this test to be important, perhaps in theory it is. But is this exam a good indicator of someone's clinical skills? Are students REALLY doing fundoscopy? Do the SP's really know whether a student is performing an exam correctly? Do students not have to do Pelvic exams or rectals..or breast exams in the hospital setting? Pretty sure they do...but can't do them in the CS..too uncomfortable for the SP's, but you claim this to be so important....obviously it isn't. How many rooms have bp cuffs with dust on them? Examining a female without a chaparone in the room? Not in the real setting. This list can go on. I think it is a strong message that evaluating a persons 'clinical skills' is not really what's going on. That being said, I think your emphasis on the importance of this exam are a little off center, but with good intent. And by the way, I'm not sure how many Hopkins or Harvard grads failed this exam if any, but wouldn't it be nice to know why? For an exam so important and expensive, why can't a DETAILED report on why an examinee failed be provided. Patient encounter, Information gathering, patient note....that hardly tells a candidate what they did incorrectly. Someone might have failed the pt. note simply due to poor handwriting, but for all they know the format or content was deficient....one can only guess. I appreciate your belief that many students are academically proficient but are clinically lost. I absolutely agree, but when I see a candidate who can't communicate with the proctors and has to be told very slowly to let his stethoscope be examined, I wonder how he passed? So, I just don't see this exam being a very good tool for what it claims to evaluate.

  7. #7
    Chopdoc's Avatar
    Chopdoc is offline Senior Member 528 points
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    I think it's good for what it claims to evaluate, but certainly not perfect. I just don't fool myself about what it claims to evaluate. I think a lot of people put more into that than there really is. No, it does not test whether or not you can peform a fundoscopy, auscultate, percuss, draw blood, or any other of such simple tasks. And they make no claim to test those things.

    Senior students and interns should be assumed to be bumbling idiots with tubes, needles, lights, dials, anything introduced into an orifice, anything pharmacological, anything sharp, and any whiz-bang apparatus including a stethoscope and their own fingers........and indeed the USMLE makes that assumption and does not test us on any of that.

    Nurses get meticulous training and testing for all of those menial tasks. I know, I trained as a nurse before med school.

    The most important tools you have as a budding physician are principally above your neck. Specifically your communications, and your ability to observe and report while applying rudimentary diagnostic skills. And that, in fact, is what they test.

    And that, in fact, is how a blind man PASSED all the steps to go on to residency and practice. By all acounts he's a great doc.......and I am confident there is no possible way for him to effectively demonstrate fundoscopy let alone actually perform one.

    Hey, I know how to do a cricothyrotomy....do you want them to test it on the CS?

    It's not the CT (clinical tasks) it's the CS. I guess people just have different ideas about what skills should be tested....but I think they are clear on what skills they actually test.

    Remember, we are taking these tests just so we can continue on being students.

    Yup....some people get by that maybe should not. Nothing is perfect. Perhaps we can put our heads to it and some time during our own careers make it better. See one, do one, teach one.....we are responsible for those that come after us.
    Last edited by Chopdoc; 07-26-2008 at 12:51 AM. Reason: can't spell

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