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Thread: Rotations are BLUEBOOK

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    BigCat's Avatar
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    Rotations are NOT GREEN

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    I spoke to my old roommate who is currently doing rotations. Turns out most of our rotations are actually BLUEBOOK, although the school tells everyone it has all greenbook. How can a rotation be greenbook if you are not working in a hospital, much less one without residents?

    Also, some sites require a Step score minimum that not everyone gets. The only way to get greenbook rotations is if you meet that score, rotate at those spots, and move around, because there is not one place where all greenbook rotations can be done at one spot.

    I am from Ohio, which does not require all greenbook rotations, but I am also interested in working in Michigan and Illinois (family is from Chicago). Both states require greenbook cores. Looks like I have to score high in order to get the greenbook sites.
    Last edited by BigCat; 03-21-2011 at 10:43 AM.

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    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
    I spoke to my old roommate who is currently doing rotations. Turns out most of our rotations are actually BLUEBOOK, although the school tells everyone it has all greenbook. How can a rotation be greenbook if you are not working in a hospital, much less one without residents?

    .
    that's not blue book either....blue book are DO rotations...these too would have residents, just DO ones.

    ask for the ACGME # for the residency...if they do not have one...not Green.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokshana View Post
    that's not blue book either....blue book are DO rotations...these too would have residents, just DO ones.

    ask for the ACGME # for the residency...if they do not have one...not Green.
    Maybe I am using the wrong terminology then. If that is the case, we are royally screwed. My roommate was telling me that they are using the Family Medicine umbrella.. right now he is doing pediatrics, which is actually under the FM umbrella (because FM residents rotate in all primary care specialties, including pediatrics, students are rotating with FM residents learning pediatrics, which does not technically make the pediatrics rotation ACGME certified. correct me if i'm wrong)

    Some of the people in his class are in their 3rd core and have not even set foot in a hospital!!

    How does UMHS expect graduates to be licensed anywhere after residency?

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    i have no clue what all of these means. but if the acgme site gives a site that's accredited and u go do rotation at that site, isn't it already green book?
    UMHS

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    this is concerning. it would be nice if someone from school or if someone currently in rotations or who has done rotations can clarify on what is going on with our rotations. i wish these schools would be more upfront about the ramifications of doing certain rotations, because in quite a few states where we are from, it really does matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gx255 View Post
    i have no clue what all of these means. but if the acgme site gives a site that's accredited and u go do rotation at that site, isn't it already green book?
    Not exactly. In order for a rotation to be "greenbook", they must have a residency of the rotation you are doing there. For instance, if you are doing a Surgery core rotation at ___ Hospital, in order for your Surgery core rotation to be "greenbook" aka "ACGME affiliated", there must be a Surgery residency program, featuring attendings, residents, etc. It basically has to be a teaching site for a Surgery residency.

    What exactly is the FM Umbrella? EXAMPLE: Well, Family Practice residents actually rotate through the different specialties, such as Pediatrics, Ob/Gyn, etc.. so, in a sense, they are being educated, and if you rotate at these spots for Pediatrics or Ob/Gyn, etc, you will be learning what they are learning, but your rotation will NOT be ACGME accredited (will NOT be greenbook), because there IS NO RESIDENCY for Pediatrics, Ob/Gyn at that spot. However, there is a Family residency, and you are taking advantage of the FM Umbrella.

    So technically, "Yes", we are rotating at ACGME hospitals, but NO, not all are ACGME accredited!! You may do a Pediatrics rotation at a hospital that has an ACGME residency in Family, but that doesn't mean you are doing a greenbook Pediatrics rotation!!!

    What a lot of these Caribbean schools do is use the Family Practice umbrella rule, and students who do not understand will take these without anyone knowing, because a lot of these schools just want you to start rotations so that you can start paying for tuition already! Not to say that you cannot get a license, but not doing all greenbook cores severely limits you on what states you can practice in after you finish residency, because there are a good amount of states that DO require you to have greenbook core rotations (some even require greenbook electives on top of cores!!)

    SO YES, ALL THIS DOES MATTER!
    BELIEVELAND native

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    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
    Maybe I am using the wrong terminology then. If that is the case, we are royally screwed. My roommate was telling me that they are using the Family Medicine umbrella.. right now he is doing pediatrics, which is actually under the FM umbrella (because FM residents rotate in all primary care specialties, including pediatrics, students are rotating with FM residents learning pediatrics, which does not technically make the pediatrics rotation ACGME certified. correct me if i'm wrong)

    Some of the people in his class are in their 3rd core and have not even set foot in a hospital!!

    How does UMHS expect graduates to be licensed anywhere after residency?
    yes the rotations that are done under the FM umbrella are greenbook, but there are states (namely Texas) that require greenbook by specialty..inn other words they do not recognize the FM umbrella.

    Greenbook=ACGME=allopathic (MD) residencies (there is an actual book with the residencies listed and it is, you guessed it!, green in color)..yes having an ACGME FM program will allow other rotations to be considered green (but again to some states)

    Bluebook=AOA=osteopathic (DO) residencies...AFAIK there is no FM umbrella.

    but i cretainly be a bit concerned if you are not rotating IN a hospital even if its under an FM umbrella
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokshana View Post
    yes the rotations that are done under the FM umbrella are greenbook, but there are states (namely Texas) that require greenbook by specialty..inn other words they do not recognize the FM umbrella.

    but i cretainly be a bit concerned if you are not rotating IN a hospital even if its under an FM umbrella
    Ok, so if I am interested in working in Illinois (which requires cores to be all greenbook), would it be safe to say that doing cores under the FM umbrella would satisfy this greenbook requirement?


    and just to add, I'm pretty sure my buddy doing Peds is rotating in a Pediatric office, not a hospital
    BELIEVELAND native

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    diabeticmedic is offline Junior Member 514 points
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    Greenbook does not = MD residency. Bluebook does not = DO residency.

    Green means hospital has residents and fellows in rotation, MD or DO. Blue means a rotation where there are no residents or fellows in that specialty.

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    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by diabeticmedic View Post
    Greenbook does not = MD residency. Bluebook does not = DO residency.

    Green means hospital has residents and fellows in rotation, MD or DO. Blue means a rotation where there are no residents or fellows in that specialty.

    uhh, no...

    Amazon.com: Graduate Medical Education Directory 2005-2006 (9781579476762): American Medical Technologist Reviewer: Books

    even the ACGME acknowledges that the "Green" book is ACGME residencies...

    ACGME | Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education


    put out by the AMA, lists the ACGME residency programs...and it has a green cover.

    it is basically what FREIDA is in print.

    and ACGME= allopathic MD programs....NOT DO.

    the designation of Blue book is a bit harder to prove as DO residency programs, but DO programs are definitely NOT greenbook (or ACGME approved), residents or not.
    Last edited by rokshana; 03-22-2011 at 08:53 AM.
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