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Thread: HELP PLEASE!

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    skull's Avatar
    skull is offline Member 510 points
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    HELP PLEASE!

    Hello Derek, and other UNIBE alums and current students.

    First of all, I would like to thank Derek very much for his masterpiece article “Life after UNIBE”. I can not empathized enough how useful it’s in clarifying a lot of concerns that many of us (prospective UNIBE students) had.

    Now, I would really appreciate it if Derek and those who are currently in attendance would provide more info, including their personal experiences and opinions. Other things like admissions process, how easy or difficult to get in, etc. Info about the daily life, the country, and other tips will also be great.

    Thank you all.

    bringslte@yahoo.com

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    I'm a UCE graduated and I will give my 2 cents later.
    This is like the candidates in USA they give a speach about the spech they will give.
    Anyhow as a UCE graduated you can practice in USA.
    I wll come back later.
    Moderator: USMLE AND Residency Forums.

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    why even bother with the obvious. Just know where you are need it and where you can help the most.

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    smle is offline Newbie 510 points
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    UTESA grad stuck in California

    I am a UTESA grad in California. I called California Medical board today. They seriously disapprove UTESA. Utesa grad cannot practice in California whether or not you are licensed anywhere else in USA.

    Not the news i was looking to find out !

    What should i do now?

    Any suggestions, options, need to know something

    Last edited by smle; 09-17-2007 at 05:25 PM.

  4. #13
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    Cubanito76 is offline Member 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by smle View Post
    I am a UTESA grad in California. I called California Medical board today. They seriously disapprove UTESA. Utesa grad cannot practice in California whether or not you are licensed anywhere else in USA.

    Not the news i was looking to find out !

    What should i do now?

    Any suggestions, options, need to know something

    You probably don't want to do med school all over again so the only thing you can do is find a residency in a UTESA approved state. Not the news you want to hear, but it's your only option.

    Schools don't apply for the board because it's expensive. If UNIBE hasn't dared to apply yet, don't expect UTESA to jump on it any time soon.

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    immunologic is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by smle View Post
    I am a UTESA grad in California. I called California Medical board today. They seriously disapprove UTESA. Utesa grad cannot practice in California whether or not you are licensed anywhere else in USA.

    Not the news i was looking to find out !

    What should i do now?

    Any suggestions, options, need to know something

    Aha, so now we have UTESA not licensed in 50 states?
    Well here is the thread which says that UTESA is a DISAPPROVED school in California.....
    http://www.valuemd.com/unibe-dominic...ifornia-3.html

    NO WORRIES FOR UCE THERE, 50 STATES IN THE US!! AND I DID NOT HEAR THIS FROM someones DAD, I CHECKED THE CALIFORNIA BOARD LIST!!
    Last edited by immunologic; 09-17-2007 at 08:32 PM.

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    immunologic is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubanito76 View Post
    You probably don't want to do med school all over again so the only thing you can do is find a residency in a UTESA approved state. Not the news you want to hear, but it's your only option.

    Schools don't apply for the board because it's expensive. If UNIBE hasn't dared to apply yet, don't expect UTESA to jump on it any time soon.
    Thats not true.Schools like UTESA are considered LOCAL LANGUAGE programs, and hence are automatically California approved.
    Utesa had to do something really wrong,in 1984 to lose that California approval.

    Whereas, Unibe's English Program is not 'automatically' California approved,until ofcourse they apply and pass the parameters that the CA board has set.But I am certain Unibe's Spanish program graduates can practice in California.If not, California's Board have got it all wrong.

    What really bugs me, is that schools like Spartan(a good school once, and now ready to implode) and Unibe, dont want to put the needed 120 grand and get the approval.For them it is peanuts.Both the owners are 'OLD money rich', plus Unibe generates enough revenues to offset such an expense.What are they afraid of?
    Last edited by immunologic; 09-18-2007 at 09:43 PM.

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    You speak with such absolute authority yet you know not of what you speak. Nothing.
    NO SCHOOL, REPEAT NO SCHOOL is automatically approved. The curriculum under which they teach under goes an extensive review to see if it is comparable with California education standards.
    Currently, Unibe students, be they in the Spanish Section or the English section, ARE NOT RECOGNIZED to train or be licensed in the State of California. I know Ms. Pat Park and the California Board of Medical Licensure will be pleased to know they have it all wrong according to you and your interpretation of the laws and rules governing the board.
    “A $120 Grand” for recognition. That is absolutely ludicrous. First of all, California recognition had a very low priority for Unibe when it was starting the program 10+ years ago. More recently it has received the number one priority of the new Dean and it is seen as in the best interests to become recognized by California. The cost for application and recognition encompasses paying for the investigation team to travel and stay in the Dominican Republic for approximately one week. Not cheap for 6 or 8 people. Last I heard several years ago was in the range of $40,000.00 usd.
    And finally, “The California Self Assessment for International Medical Schools for Purpose of Licensure” is a formidable document of some 24 pages. I will admit it is much improved over the previous issue of 100+ pages. It takes a team of experts in their various fields, to complete this document, I know only too well because my University is working diligently on the project. It is nothing to do with application fees. Suggest you obtain a copy of the required report and see for yourself what an extensive document this is.
    And for the UTESA denial, will email you the California report that you may judge for yourself the reasons they were not recognized. Both the application and the UTESA reports are a matter of public record.
    But please investigate and check things out before you speak “ex cathedra”.
    ERNEST C. HOLBROOK, M.D. FACS

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    immunologic is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERNEST714 View Post
    You speak with such absolute authority yet you know not of what you speak. Nothing.
    NO SCHOOL, REPEAT NO SCHOOL is automatically approved. The curriculum under which they teach under goes an extensive review to see if it is comparable with California education standards.
    Currently, Unibe students, be they in the Spanish Section or the English section, ARE NOT RECOGNIZED to train or be licensed in the State of California. I know Ms. Pat Park and the California Board of Medical Licensure will be pleased to know they have it all wrong according to you and your interpretation of the laws and rules governing the board.
    “A $120 Grand” for recognition. That is absolutely ludicrous. First of all, California recognition had a very low priority for Unibe when it was starting the program 10+ years ago. More recently it has received the number one priority of the new Dean and it is seen as in the best interests to become recognized by California. The cost for application and recognition encompasses paying for the investigation team to travel and stay in the Dominican Republic for approximately one week. Not cheap for 6 or 8 people. Last I heard several years ago was in the range of $40,000.00 usd.
    And finally, “The California Self Assessment for International Medical Schools for Purpose of Licensure” is a formidable document of some 24 pages. I will admit it is much improved over the previous issue of 100+ pages. It takes a team of experts in their various fields, to complete this document, I know only too well because my University is working diligently on the project. It is nothing to do with application fees. Suggest you obtain a copy of the required report and see for yourself what an extensive document this is.
    And for the UTESA denial, will email you the California report that you may judge for yourself the reasons they were not recognized. Both the application and the UTESA reports are a matter of public record.
    But please investigate and check things out before you speak “ex cathedra”.
    Wow!Thats strong Ernest.Relax now.
    1)My bad about Automatic CA recognition parameters, let me rephrase, there are requirements.
    How is a school in Sudan, Afganistan,Ehiopia accepted by CA board?
    Do they go there to CHECK out the school?
    No, The CA board sees if a school is over 5 years, and has been accredited by the LOCAL GOVERNMENT.And the school is using a local language, example in the Philipines they use ENGLISH, thus is deemed as a local language.
    So lets summarise,a school is deemed CA approved, if it is 5 years old, accredited by the local govt, and is in the local language.
    CA BOARD DOES NOT GO THERE TO VERIFY IT and I doubt if they ,as you claim, SCRUTINISE the CURRICULUM, visa-vis CA curriculum.Can you explain how a Sudanese program is CA approved or the one in Ukraine and the one in Dominican Republic NOT approved buy CA.It has to do with the Local government accredition.

    I hope to ask Ms Pat Park, and post the reconfirmation by this week.

    I am absolutely sure, that CA Board DID NOT GO TO EVRY SCHOOL ON ITS LIST, and local Government input played a major part in its decision making.What I meant by AUTOMATIC is, when the CA board, DOES NOT MAKE A SITE VISIT!!But I am guilty of not explaining this in my prevous post.

    Ernest , If I am wrong, I will buy you a years supply of mangoes you can find in the Dominican Republic, but if I am right, you better give me a meal ticket of southern home cooking , valid for a year.I have a voracious appetite.And I am being serious.Very serious.
    2)The costs on which you are splitting hairs Ernest is also debatable.
    My info is 80000 USD, and 40,000 USD incidental, including hotel and other other expenses.
    3)If UTESA was not a 'Automatic' CA approved school, the question is why?
    I have to find out if all the major schools in the Dominican Republic , that are CA approved, ACTUALLY HAD A SITE VISIT.I will do so by this week, provided I can gain access to Ms Pat Park.

    Ernest, you better start buying the home cooking supplies, I have a feeling , you have lot of southern cooking to supervise.
    Last edited by immunologic; 10-11-2007 at 04:58 PM.

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    ERNEST714's Avatar
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    California State licensing laws require that the medical education of all graduates must meet certain requirements with respect to curriculum length and content. The Self Assessment Report was designed to allow a licensing body to place credibility in the institutions and those documents it certifies, whether those documents are diplomas and transcripts, or simple certifications of clinical clerkships having been performed with adequate supervision in accordance with California law. Furthermore, the Division uses the Report to assess the institution and determine whether the educational program is equivalent to the education required of U.S. medical school graduates and that it meets California’s statutory requirements.
    After a medical school has returned the completed Self Assessment Report and accompanying documentation to the Division’s offices, staff analyzes the curriculum’s compliance with the undergraduate training requirements in Sections 2089 and 2089.5 of the Business and Professions Code and obtains a Medical Consultant’s opinion of the school’s educational program. The consultant’s findings are then presented to the Division of Licensing members at their next schedules quarterly meeting. At that time, The Division may reach a decision to approve or disapprove the medical school based solely on the written information submitted. Section 1314.1 of Title 16 California Code of Regulations lists the standards and procedures used during the review.

    As part of the process of reaching a final decision regarding the acceptability of a medical school’s curriculum and diploma, the Division members may decide that a site visit to the medical school is necessary. In this case, a site visit team, composed of one or two Division members, administrators, and an expert consultant, will visit the medical school and its affiliate teaching hospitals at a time agreed upon by all parties. The site visit is scheduled when classes are in session. In accordance with California law, the medical school must bear all costs incurred in the site visit. After the site visit, the team reports its finding and recommendations to the full Division at the subsequent quarterly meeting. At that time, the Division may vote to approve or disapprove the medical school. If a site inspection is deemed to be unnecessary, the review process can be streamlined.

    Until such time as the Division of Licensing recognizes a new medical program, its students cannot complete clinical clerkships in California hospitals and its graduates cannot enter postgraduate training programs or be licensed in California. Illegal clinical training in California constitutes the unlicensed practice of medicine, which is a misdemeanor criminal offense.

    If students complete clinical rotations outside of the affiliate teaching hospitals in the country in which the medical school is located, particularly if these hospitals are in the USA, these facilities will need to satisfy either subsection (1),(2), (3) or (4) of section 2089.5 (d). If students complete clinical rotations in a foreign country other than the USA or Canada, the school must have a written affiliation agreement with the foreign teaching hospital that satisfies the requirements of section 2089.5 (e) (1-10) before the students begin training. Again, if a medical school is not currently recognized by the Division of Licensing, its students cannot complete clinical rotations in California facilities under any circumstance.
    The board’s statutes do not recognize basic science education completed in other health care disciplines, such as school of naturopathy, chiropractic, nursing, physician assistant, pharmacy, etc. nor do the statutes allow the approval of highly accelerated “refresher” style basic sciences education programs or non-resident distance learning programs.

    The public often asks how long it takes the Division of Licensing to review a new medical school program. There is no standard answer to this question. If a site inspection is deemed necessary, the review may take 3-5 years. If the Division has other schools’ applications pending, there will be a delay in beginning the review of any new applications.
    http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Schools_IMS_Self-Assessment.pdf
    PERSONAL NOTE: LOVE MANGO
    QUESTIONS??????
    ERNEST C. HOLBROOK, M.D. FACS

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    smle is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by immunologic View Post
    How is a school in Sudan, Afganistan, Ehiopia accepted by CA board?
    That's a good one! Very well said.

    I am sure many CA approved schools in these and other places are worse off than UTESA. So why utesa is disapproved ??

    I am not saying any school which needs improvement, is off the hook, they are money making machines and are doing just that.

    But its the students who end up being stuck.

    whats the purpose of usmle and residency anyways?

    It is not a walk in the park. FMG from all over the world struggle with it (even the ones who didnt go to utesa). if a MD cannot perform what he/she was trained for after usmle and residency, you cannot just blame the medical school. Residency programs has something to do with it.

    But the point is:

    In middle of all the politics, its the students who end up being stuck, its not the money but valuable time in life. Information is not always available to everyone at the right time...
    Last edited by smle; 09-21-2007 at 12:51 PM.

  11. #20
    ERNEST714's Avatar
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    I know absolutely nothing about the aforementioned schools but I can surmise they were recognized because they met the California requirements. Wouldn't you think that was the reason?
    I sent you a private message with the UTESA site report from the California Board listing the deficiencies of the school. Did you not receive the report? It is a matter of public record and if you did not receive the report possibly it can be posted.
    Information is always there if one cares to search for it. I have always advised prospective students to any school to check with the proper licensing authority to see if the school meets with their approval.
    ERNEST C. HOLBROOK, M.D. FACS

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