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Thread: request.

  1. #1
    playarf is offline Permanently Banned
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    request.

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    i sincerely request that the moderators on value md should READ the posts before 'warning' the posters. i completely disagree with their logic, and their power hungry control freak attitudes. its pathetic. we are all mature here, atleast in 20s, and its pathetic to see this 'parental' attitude from some moderators. we are not some lost and confused souls waiting for your required direction and sample of power.

    i have been a moderator on many websites so i know how things work. i have been 'warned' twice just because the moderators FAILED to read whats written, and did NOT take into account the 'CONTEXT' of what was said. its pretty simple basic english grammar stuff that everyone should know, yet its missed too often to ignore.

    its frustrating to see this because i have been a member of this site long before these so-called moderators joined, and they are telling me how to behave. Please dont under estimate our intelligence.

    your mod-power doesnt mean much to any poster here. even if you ban people, they can always make a new account and post again.
    by unnecessarily interfering and controlling so much, it frustrates people, and makes them lose interest on this forum.

    i am trying not to be angry, but be constructive, and tell you that its frustrating to see this happen to this site. you are letting some 'moderators' control other peoples thoughts and expressions even when there is absolutely no need. sometimes i get a warning from the moderators telling ME to read TOS again, and i wonder if THEY have even read TOS even once. its pathetic.

    please look into this, because i am tired to getting PMs about something i didnt do. i dont know if the mods undergo any training, but they should ATLEAST know how to discriminate between 'offensive' posts, and good ol' tongue in cheek humor and wit and not take everything for face value. instead of focusing on one or two specific words, look at the overall message and context of discussion. i am incredibly surprised that the mods on valuemd dont have that basic ability.

    cheers.
    Last edited by playarf; 11-25-2007 at 10:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is offline Administrator 9367 points
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    I just happened to be online and following along as your case was unfolding (all cases are documented). There are 2 different posts of yours which were reported.

    I suppose the one you're referring to which you claim is "good ol' tongue in cheek humor and wit" was not given an infraction, so no point in discussing that one at this time.

    The one in which you received an infraction was because you used inappropriate language (with symbols to bypass the auto word censors). Considering you already had a previous infraction for that same violation, the Mod would have been perfectly justified in issuing an infraction without a courtesy PM to edit. However, the Mod sent a courtesy PM anyway allowing you to edit to avoid the infraction. You refused to edit and received an infraction as a result, but I suppose you forgot to include that in your complaint.

    The point is that you didn't necessarily receive an infraction for the violation itself per se. Rather, you received the infraction for refusing to comply with the TOS.

    Regarding the use of multiple accounts, this is the part that I can never seem to understand. Why would someone try to use multiple accounts on this site when it will most likely eventually lead to a permanent ban?? Our system automatically detects and bans multiple accounts upon discovery the first time. After this, the IP is banned the second time and reported to the proper authorities the 3rd time (including ISP, school, hospital, etc.).

    Why do people risk this?? I've seen so many people get caught for multiple accounts and I can't understand why they would do this?? Do they think they can get away with it? Are they unaware of this policy? Please help me understand this
    Doc
    Site Administrator

  3. #3
    playarf is offline Permanently Banned
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    Dear Doc,

    1) I am glad that it is you who has replied to my message.
    I refused to edit that post because I disagree with it. You expect any normal, self -respecting human being to bend down and take it!?
    the post i am referring to said 'i am trying not to sound LIKE AN I didnt NOT call anyone that. I used a simile. That gets me an infarction?
    Perhaps the mod should have put some effort into reading what was said before I wrote that, as well as the latter part of my post. I did NOT offend anyone, or mean to scare them. I simply replied to a stupid assertion by cattyjane about paper costs. You can read the post again yourself.
    2) Secondly, I do not know about the mechanics of making a 2nd account, but I know some people who have been successful in doing that.
    3) The previous infarctions I got were from stephew and jameslynton. I have yet to understand why i got them, but it was for the same exact reason. they did not read the overall context of the message, and just gave me an infarction. I am sorry, when someone claims that I have done something wrong, then the proof has to be substantial. If the proof is not substantial, then I am in my right to question them. Its called democracy - maybe its getting alien to VMD these days. however, just my questioning is good enough for an infarct!? WOW! are these mods or gods?!
    And please, 'courtesy' or no 'courtesy', the fact that my post is offensive because of the word 'a**' WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OVERALL MESSAGE, shows me that the moderators cannot read. they do not have the ability to distinguish between an offensive post, and a simile.i dont care if there are any courtesies involved or not, the reason for the infarction lacks in principle whatsoever.
    and you cannot justify this infarction because 'i had been warned before' - what does that mean?! is anyone ever out of the hole!? the infarctions should be INDEPENDANT of previous offenses. otherwise i am being punished for one infarct that i 'commited' (which i still dispute).
    4) i dont know what to say, except that i have been on this site for more than 3 years, and i am ashamed to see this. i am not submissive to anyone, and its pathetic to see that the mods have this kind of a cheap behaviour.
    Last edited by playarf; 11-26-2007 at 01:44 PM.

  4. #4
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    I think I see the problem now. You were issued the infraction for "Inappropriate language" and NOT for "personal insults". Had you called someone that profane word, you would have been in violation of two rules rather than one. So it doesn't matter if you called nobody, or even yourself, the bad word, it's still against the TOS for being a bad word (even when using symbols to bypass the auto word censors).

    In fact, the post above is also in violation of the TOS for the same reason. Kindly edit to avoid another infraction.

    But I should add that the Mods are specifically instructed NOT to put too much into the context of what is written, but to concentrate on how it is written. We don't want to restrict the users' ideas, only the way in which they express them (i.e. no personal insults, profanity, racial/religious slurs, etc).

    I should also add that you are more than free to request further explanation if you don't understand any specific violation. However, after reading through your case, your replies to their courtesy PMs were the exact opposite of how one should politely ask for further explanation. Since the Mods are not obligated to send an optional courtesy PM to edit, how do you think they feel when they go out of their way to send it and get a 'less than polite' reply? Were you seriously expecting a reply to your PM telling the Mod to "butt out"??

    Regarding your knowledge of others having multiple accounts, I'd urge you to advise them to contact me via PM (or our support team via email) to let us know the other accounts so we can adjust them and avoid their accounts getting caught by our system and auto banned (assuming they weren't already banned before). If users come forward on their own BEFORE getting caught, we adjust their account and let it slide. That may be what happened to the people you know? However, I wouldn't suggest taking the chance of using multiple accounts because once you're caught for multiple accounts, you're blacklisted and the system eventually detects it.

    Hope this helps.

    p.s. The reason why a previous infraction for the same violation is taken into consideration is because it shows you knew about that particular rule already. One of the purposes of the courtesy PM to edit is the possibility that the user in question was not aware of the rule.
    Doc
    Site Administrator

  5. #5
    jameslynton's Avatar
    jameslynton is offline Super Moderator 48 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by playarf View Post
    ...
    3) The previous infarctions I got were from stephew and jameslynton. I have yet to understand why i got them, but it was for the same exact reason. they did not read the overall context of the message, and just gave me an infarction. I am sorry, when someone claims that I have done something wrong, then the proof has to be substantial. ... its pathetic to see that the mods have this kind of a cheap behaviour.
    I can't say about Stephew infracting you. However I can explain why you were given a warning by me. You posted an insult. We have it documented - plain and simple you called another poster a bigot on a warned thread. This warning was upheld by the site administrator after reviewing the post. You were actually very lucky in that you then left a flame and insult and you wrote insults in the PM's you sent the moderators (also an infractable offense and against the TOS - terms of service) since moderators are required to read all our PM's. I hope that helps you to understand logically what you did. Also if you remember your infraction was upheld by the site administrator and not reversed.
    PreMed Forum Moderator

    I call it like I see it. I am not paid by ValueMD or any school. Nor do I recruit for any school.

  6. #6
    playarf is offline Permanently Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    I think I see the problem now. You were issued the infraction for "Inappropriate language" and NOT for "personal insults". Had you called someone that profane word, you would have been in violation of two rules rather than one. So it doesn't matter if you called nobody, or even yourself, the bad word, it's still against the TOS for being a bad word (even when using symbols to bypass the auto word censors).

    In fact, the post above is also in violation of the TOS for the same reason. Kindly edit to avoid another infraction.

    But I should add that the Mods are specifically instructed NOT to put too much into the context of what is written, but to concentrate on how it is written. We don't want to restrict the users' ideas, only the way in which they express them (i.e. no personal insults, profanity, racial/religious slurs, etc).

    I should also add that you are more than free to request further explanation if you don't understand any specific violation. However, after reading through your case, your replies to their courtesy PMs were the exact opposite of how one should politely ask for further explanation. Since the Mods are not obligated to send an optional courtesy PM to edit, how do you think they feel when they go out of their way to send it and get a 'less than polite' reply? Were you seriously expecting a reply to your PM telling the Mod to "butt out"??

    Regarding your knowledge of others having multiple accounts, I'd urge you to advise them to contact me via PM (or our support team via email) to let us know the other accounts so we can adjust them and avoid their accounts getting caught by our system and auto banned (assuming they weren't already banned before). If users come forward on their own BEFORE getting caught, we adjust their account and let it slide. That may be what happened to the people you know? However, I wouldn't suggest taking the chance of using multiple accounts because once you're caught for multiple accounts, you're blacklisted and the system eventually detects it.

    Hope this helps.

    p.s. The reason why a previous infraction for the same violation is taken into consideration is because it shows you knew about that particular rule already. One of the purposes of the courtesy PM to edit is the possibility that the user in question was not aware of the rule.
    Again, its pointless for me to edit my post for using that langauge, because CLEARLY, I am not using the word to be offensive to YOU. I am merely RE-STATING the events. Where else am I supposed to tell you what happened if I cant do it here and unable to use the accurate terms?!. The fact that this also is worthy of an infarction is quite mind boggling, and again re-iterates my point. If my use of that word to describe the events accurately bothers you, then please go ahead and delete it - i wont be upset.
    VMD is controlling people's thoughts, and only want content which is VERY superficial and pleasing to them. Its sad, because that is what is destroying this website's biggest asset - the different people who come here and try to express themselves in different ways via censoring.
    As for the infarct. I am surprised WHY was the infarct given now. I told you already, courtesy, optional couresty, or lack of has no meaning to me when the issue is deficient in principle. I dont care how polite someone is, but if they are plain wrong, then that doesnt change anything.
    I dont know if you are getting what I am trying to say, but I feel like you are trying to justify the moderators response rather than solving the initial problem. Whatever, I guess thats what you are supposed to do since you are in charge here.
    And I would sincerely disagree with you when you say that VMD moderators are picked carefully. From my experience, being a moderator doesnt really require any special skills - its just requires friendship and being a frequent poster. Mods on any forum are more like a gang, nothing more. They have their own 'mods only' forum where they 'discuss' posts, like this one for example.

    Its also funny that no one seemed to care about my use of the word in that post until 4 days after. What were mods doing in that time?! How come none of the super-cool mods were monitoring the posts. I thought everything was A-OK, and then all of a sudden I get a warning, and when I ask for a simple explanation, I get an infarction! As medical students, we should all be smart enough to know that this behaviour is borderline pathetic, controlling, and has no justification.

    I know that limits have to be established on any forum, but expecting mature medical school students to NOT speak their minds and be a bunch of obedient sheep is quite sad. If thats what you guys want, then please let me know.

    As for the people who have two accounts on this forum, I am sorry - I cant tell you that because thats not what friends do. However, I will personally tell them not to abuse a great site like VMD, and stick to one account and try not to get 'infarcts','heart attacks', 'strokes' or god knows what else like me.

    cheers
    Last edited by playarf; 11-26-2007 at 01:26 PM.

  7. #7
    playarf is offline Permanently Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslynton View Post
    I can't say about Stephew infracting you. However I can explain why you were given a warning by me. You posted an insult. We have it documented - plain and simple you called another poster a bigot on a warned thread. This warning was upheld by the site administrator after reviewing the post. You were actually very lucky in that you then left a flame and insult and you wrote insults in the PM's you sent the moderators (also an infractable offense and against the TOS - Terms of Service) since moderators are required to read all our PM's. I hope that helps you to understand logically what you did. Also if you remember your infraction was upheld by the site administrator and not reversed.
    I posted on VMD after quite a while in that post, and I did not know about these 'curfew' type new TOS.
    Secondly, I did not know that the thread was 'warned' (whatever that means, i still dont know).
    Thirdly, you failed to understand the CONTEXT of what was said. Let me again, give you an example:
    'You're horrible!' saying that to someone on their face that you dont like is different than saying 'you're horrible!' to a friend when they pull a prank on you. The issue is of context. Without context, words are empty. You focused on words, rather than the message.
    Thats all.

  8. #8
    JHarris is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslynton View Post
    I can't say about Stephew infracting you. However I can explain why you were given a warning by me. You posted an insult. We have it documented - plain and simple you called another poster a bigot on a warned thread. This warning was upheld by the site administrator after reviewing the post. You were actually very lucky in that you then left a flame and insult and you wrote insults in the PM's you sent the moderators (also an infractable offense and against the TOS - Terms of Service) since moderators are required to read all our PM's. I hope that helps you to understand logically what you did. Also if you remember your infraction was upheld by the site administrator and not reversed.

    What if the person was a bigot?
    The best defense is the truth so if calling somebody a bigot was a factual statement, then how can the truth be an insult?
    also, was the person given an infrfaction for being a bigot ? If he was, then the person shouldn't be infracted from calling him a bigot, right?

    If the person was not infracted for being a bigot then one can draw only two conclusions
    A-- he was not a bigot and the infraction for calling him one was deserved
    B-- he was a bigot, and bigotry is tolerated on this forum, but calling bigotry bigotry is not tolerated because that is an insult.
    please clarify. I am sure many people are waiting

    also, you guys need to decide on the proper names rule

    elected officials--- ---- OK or not OK
    famous people----pro cricket players OK or not OK......authors past OK or not OK, authors present OK or not OK....... dead actors OK or not OK. actors living OK or not OK How about philosophers , let's say ancient greeks..... OK or ot OK. terrorists OK or not OK. Can I say Osama Bin Ladin or will he sue this forum ?

    and doc, you ought to look at this thread. I would say that not only is it disgusting, but possible a legal problem for you if Ms W's lawyers get wind of it. Let's see, people agree not to post proper names and slanderous material......... and sexually related stuff. It's all there and moderators are posting on it. Whan you say? 2003? Nope, last month

    and one of your moderators makes some very interesting comments near the end of the thread. Shocking that he/she wasn't asked to edit. Just Shocking !
    Last edited by JHarris; 11-26-2007 at 01:35 PM.

  9. #9
    stephew is offline Moderator Guru 512 points
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    wow that was quick visit to the gym.
    Steph
    If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

  10. #10
    JHarris is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephew View Post
    wow that was quick visit to the gym.

    sidetracked with the mail and a neighbor. Now waiting for him to join me.
    we roll slow sometimes

    great that you are keen on my posting tendencies. care to answer the questions?

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