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  1. #1
    gambino is offline Junior Member
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    SCIMD has NO approval outside of ECFMG

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    As someone who unfortunately formerly attended this institution and has attempted to restart all over at another American school a few years back. I feel compelled to warn others of the great peril they will find themselves in should they try to send their coursework done at this institution to outside agencies for evaluation for credit if trying to obtain a research job or some fellowships.

    If you wish to transfer or get credit of any kind for work done at St. Chris IMD, all U.S. schools will steer you towards:

    a. the U.S. Dept. of Education website here:

    Recognition of Foreign Qualifications

    b. if you are applying for any type of research job at U.S. govt. labs such as the NIH, FDA, etc. they will say something like this:

    Permanent U.S. residents can apply for Staff Fellowship appointments as physicians, scientists, or mathematical statisticians. Graduates of foreign college or universities must provide proof of U.S. education equivalency certification. Staff Fellowships provide the employment and development of promising research/regulatory review scientists by providing the opportunity to accelerate and enhance scientistsí careers through close associations with leading authorities in health-related research.

    In many many cases, an ECFMG certificate is NOT enough (I was told this by someone at a U.S. govt. lab in Bethesda, MD).

    They will then steer you towards this site:

    NACES - the National Association of Credit Evaluation Services

    the private evaluators of foreign education are listed here.

    I submitted work done at st chris IMD to 2 of the above services, for the purpose of getting credit for transfer and a research job:


    In both cases BOTH agencies said they contacted numerous licensing and accrediting bodies - the GMC, the Senegal embassy, the state of NY, and others and all told them that this school is simply a "diploma mill" that exists in a loophole of the law and that NO type of credit of any kind can therefore be given for St. Chris coursework. When you are trying to transfer credit for work done at St. Chris or applying for a hypercompetitive research job at a U.S. govt lab, this school and any kind of work done at it, will kill your application.

    Had PL or FS had any kind of integrity when they allegedly ran this school, they could have done their level best to ensure that those students who wanted to go somewhere else after a few semesters or to apply for research or felllowships would have at least had a chance. Simply doing the right thing by getting the school accredited by some outside govt. authority or private agency would go a long LONG way towards helping former students (and I presume graduates) as well.

    I know I will be attacked for this post, but I felt it my duty to warn others based on my own unfortunate experience.

    KR
    Last edited by gambino; 11-25-2009 at 03:30 PM.

  2. #2
    SCIMD Official's Avatar
    SCIMD Official is offline School Official 510 points
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    Hi Gambino, sorry you're having so much difficulty.

    From my past experience getting course work or credit transfered from any school to any other school in a different country is ALMOST impossible (but not completely impossible). I found that the US in particular is very very difficult to accept work done anywhere outside of the US. The same is true for getting credit for work done without any training in that country. Which is evidenced by the many many over qualified FMG's that drive cabs because they can't get their diploma's or courses verrified in the US (there is actually a local GP i reccomend to pt's without a GP who was a previous ortho surgeon for 10 years in Iran that drove a cab for 2 years here while waiting to get a residency and then finish FP). This is a sad problem that is not unique to SCIMD.

    If you read my other post you will see the various accreditations that the school has obtained. http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophe...date-info.html. As well as having full approval from senegal (as evidenced by the recent update on the WHO).

    I'm not sure why you're having so much difficulty but past experience has taught me that it is usually a problem with the individuals application and not the institutions.

    On a personal note I actually did 6 months of research at the NIH and then another year in conjuction with the NIH (not directly employed by them) right after the entire fall out happened so the media was full of negative info - I was just persistant and jumped through all required hoops. I also recently had all my course work and courses at SCIMD reviewed by a provincial government in Canada for the purpose of licensure. It took a long time (4 months or weekly letters and phone calls) but they reviewed everything. I had to submit details about courses and the hours spent in them, content of courses, types of exams taken, etc... they even asked for a letter from the WHO directly to again re-verify the WHO status. It took a while but I got approved.

    If you are a graduate that is having difficult getting paper work co-ordinated or need things verified you can send me a PM and I will do my best to help with that. It will most likely be a difficult process but if you really want something it is possible.
    Administration
    St. Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine
    Providing study in French and English
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    Please PM for any questions that you do not wish to post on the open forum, or any additional information that that you cannot find using the search feature of the forum or on the above website.
    Responses can be in French (i'm about 75% fluent, a little rusty for now) or English.

  3. #3
    RobOman is offline Member
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    I don't understand, why would a provider of "credit evaluation services" contact "the GMC, the Senegal embassy, the state of NY..." about a medical college in Senegal, rather than contact the Ministry of Education in Senegal directly?

    I don't doubt the Senegalese embassy to the US didn't know anything about the school since they are involved in strictly diplomatic matters and have nothing to do with the Ministry of Education and the institutions it regulates.

    Whoever these providers of "credit evaluation services" are must either not know what they are doing and/or are not very good at what they do since it sounds like they contacted everyone organization except the proper ministry in the country where the college and its associated university are located...

  4. #4
    StepperK is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Scimd

    To add, most schools outside the US (including Caribbean schools) are going to find that their credits aren't going to transfer into the US or for any US credit, so SCIMD is not an anomaly there.

    I would also be wary of these credit evaluators, because it sounds as if they did not do their job correctly. Also, a perusal of these research institutes of these sites would have given Gambino this information prior to spending the money on these course evaluators.

    The people who attended the former SCCM (now reorganized directly by the Senegal founders) have gone all sorts of routes, but most not as dire as Gambinos. Some completed their MD through SCCM and are now licensed and practicing, some went to other schools during the fiasco in 2006, and their credits were taken by other schools including Ross.

    The thing is, our choices are based on getting the best information possible, and unfortunately it sounds as those Gambino didn't do enough research on how to best recover from the experience.

  5. #5
    gambino is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by StepperK View Post
    To add, most schools outside the US (including Caribbean schools) are going to find that their credits aren't going to transfer into the US or for any US credit, so SCIMD is not an anomaly there.
    The big and established schools - Ross, AUC, St. George's will NOT run into this problem. I know because I HAVE spoken to 3 of the agencies listed about this and they SPECIFICALLY told me this.

    Quote Originally Posted by StepperK View Post

    I would also be wary of these credit evaluators, because it sounds as if they did not do their job correctly. Also, a perusal of these research institutes of these sites would have given Gambino this information prior to spending the money on these course evaluators.
    The information was/is not for me, but was requested by the U.S. federal govt research program which i was applying to. I already had a strong feeling that it would be rejected. The federal govt. does NOT accept FCVS for employment purposes (though it is needed for residencies and for some clinical positions at NIH) but would only go to one of the credit evaluators which they seem to have a longstanding set of relationships with.


    Quote Originally Posted by StepperK View Post
    The people who attended the former SCCM (now reorganized directly by the Senegal founders) have gone all sorts of routes, but most not as dire as Gambinos. Some completed their MD through SCCM and are now licensed and practicing, some went to other schools during the fiasco in 2006, and their credits were taken by other schools including Ross.

    The thing is, our choices are based on getting the best information possible, and unfortunately it sounds as those Gambino didn't do enough research on how to best recover from the experience.
    I love how the bulls*it never changes with this school no matter who is in charge. More of the same pattern of denial, deflection, and counter-accusations. Your playing with people's academic lives. The inability to confront reality and work to at least address it in some positive manner is still sad to see.

    I WAS able to land the position I wanted but only after making a dozen calls and pleading my case in person with the hiring person in Bethesda. St. Chris was/is a stain on my academic record, one sadly i cannot fully expunge because it leaves a 3.5 year gap on my resume.

    If you or anyone else still trying to shill for the school want to retain any credibility and have a sincere interest in solving a problem, go and call up any of the credit evaluation rating agencies and investigate exactly WHY they do not recognize St. Chris.

    Lastly, I am forever grateful to those on here (AUCMD2006, Pathone, Rokshana,) who gave me the best advice possible a few years back of restarting my med school. I cannot erase the time I lost in this god forsaken school, nor the lies told to me by FS, PL, and their online minions, but I can try to do my level best to make a career and move beyond it.

    Have a happy holiday.

    KR
    Last edited by gambino; 12-24-2009 at 04:19 PM.

  6. #6
    RobOman is offline Member
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    I see, so despite all your bluster and bullpooh pooh in the OP of this thread, and the apparent incompetence of these so called "credit evaluation services", you did indeed get the job.

    Congratulations on grinding an old axe here, do you feel better now?

  7. #7
    medmanparadise is offline Junior Member 513 points
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    Gambino makes a lot of logical sense. I've had a very similar story to his. The second you take your diploma to any verification service in the states, you meet a brick wall. I've gone as far as to hire an attorney and threaten litigation on one of these verification companies. At the end of it all, I had to tuck my tail between my legs, because of the good advise of my council that potentially the verification companies are following protocol. Currently I've paid for three verifications and none have passed muster.

    Administrator, do you know of ANY american verification companies that will validate the diploma -- allowing grads to seek employment in medically related fields?

    Thanks!

  8. #8
    medmanparadise is offline Junior Member 513 points
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    Are you a graduate of St. Christopher's or simply an official having had graduated from another school (as most of the officials in school are?) I can't get a job lecturing medical assistants let alone researching at a local college because of this transcript issue. Getting the proper accreditation for NIH from St. Christopher's seems so far fetched.

  9. #9
    london21 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Most former Stchris students who transferred to other medical schools in 2007 are in their 1st or 2nd year of residency. Not sure if they are going to have problems with applying for permanent licenses later on. I didn't get your point; if you restarted your medical school, so why did you have problems with getting a job?

  10. #10
    RobOman is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by london21 View Post
    ...Not sure if they are going to have problems with applying for permanent licenses later on...
    The ones that have applied for permanent medical licenses have had no issues as far as I am aware.

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