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Thread: Lies

  1. #1
    medques is offline Temporarily Banned
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    Lies

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    I came to St. Chris because, from another medical schoo, because it was a tri sem program and offered clinical exposure in the United States. I met with Mr……F and…..Dr….L in my home town and they really convinced me about the school. Dr…..L gave a presentation in my home town stating that in 2007 or 2008 they would be fully accredited in the UK and that students would not even have to sit the PLAB????? He also stated that they were in the process of eventually getting approval in Cali, and Tex???????? I don’t know if he was tired from his flight and the only thing his toung could flap out was a bunch of lies, but he sure did do a good job of making a fool of me. I actually even had the opportunity to talk to Dr…L..for along time after his presentation…He told me that the school also had an affiliation with John Hop??????/ So what I would like to ask/state to the St. Chris “allies” is this:
    a) Let alone getting fully accredited in the UK, we don’t even have the right to sit the PLAB
    b) Cali and Tex?…it would be good if we can just get ECFMG back first
    c) John Hop? I don’t even know what to say about that one….you pro “St. Chris” guys tell me

    I am not trying to degrade St. Chirs, I was really excited to attend the school and was looking forward to life in England. But I really feel as if I was lied to and cheated, like that is a whole lot of ** to throw out of ones mouth, I think at this point his mouth is so dirty from the lies that, not even extra strength Colgate will clean it.. Dr….L…also walked around to our class rooms, informing students about the school and whatever else, and the question was raised to why we lost the Cleveland Clinic? Dr…L’s response was “it has nothing to do with the GMC”…alright fine…so I called Mr…..F…in new jersey his response was.. “As soon as the GMC issue is resolved, they said we could have the clinic back”…ummm o.k so who Is right? And who is wrong? Way too keep your stories straight guys, good JOB. All I can say is, the teachers at St. Chris are good, most of the faculty is good also. Overall the school WOULD have been good, but if the foundation of the school is built on lies, then the consequence and the events that are occurring speak for themselves. You have to lie a million times to cover up the original lie, so why not just tell the TRUTH. This has been my experience here at “St. LIES school of I wanna just make money so I’ll tell people things to get them to come to the school.” I hope people read this post and make a good decision. The TRUTH is buried underneath a mountain of LIES, so if one can move this mountain please let me know the truth that lies there. As for students looking to come to this school?, I hope your source of info into didn’t come from the Admin like mine did.

    P.S. I am new to value MD..so if there is something wrong with this post, let me know, But even if there is something wrong don’t edit it out..unless you want to edit out the truth.

  2. #2
    Speedracer is offline Junior Member
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    Amen to your comments!

    Amen, to your comments, and the TRUTH! It's about time someone spoke up, and presented the REAL TRUTH! I highly commend your bravery.

    I bet you won't be getting too much responsese from the "Pro" St. Chris people!

  3. #3
    jpryor's Avatar
    jpryor is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by medques
    P.S. I am new to value MD..so if there is something wrong with this post, let me know, But even if there is something wrong don’t edit it out..unless you want to edit out the truth.
    There's nothing wrong with your post, so I doubt any moderator will edit it. Unfortunately, my response will likely be lengthy, but there are some things that need to be said and I'm going to take this opportunity to do so.

    Make no mistake, I am critical of St. Christopher's not having all of the proper documentation on hand to validate its charter and all that entails. They were remiss and it is inexcusable. That said, they were and are perfectly legal, as they have stated and as has the government of Senegal. I am willing to bet that this event resulted in every school visiting the issue of their own documentation and making sure their own house was in order.

    The remedy is not as expedient as anybody would like. I wouldn't defend this even if I was inclined. To explain it requires speculation, so at best, all I can say is that government bureaucracies usually irritate with the plodding nature of paperwork. Given the gravity of the situation, I would expect a better display of sensitivity to the plight of the students.

    Whether you were lied to about California and Texas remains to be seen. I think it is reasonable that this sucker punch levied against the school was unanticipated and has thrown a monkey wrench into the school's timetable. I do not attend the school nor have I been to its campus, so I have no opinion on whether it is a viable candidate for acceptance by either state. But I think it is a reasonable assumption that the school would be posturing itself toward those goals. It may be some creative marketing to state that in 2007 or 2008 that it will obtain those goals, but I'd stop short of saying that they are lies.

    Lying and creative marketing seem to go hand in hand with offshore medical schools. I don't know if it speaks to the culture of the people who start these schools, the business model they employ or whatever rationale is used to explain it, but it is pandemic. People can do their own research, as I have, and find that the U.S. has had concerns about offshore schools since day one. The U.S. government has been very active in this arena dating back to the early 1980's. The majority of the Caribbean schools didn't even exist then, so it's fairly obvious that the older, more established schools were the issue then. It's worth noting that the stigma attached to Caribbean students is decades old--again, the result of the older, more established schools. But, in time, these schools have proven worthy and reputable. They weren't when they started and since each new school seems to follow this pattern, it makes me wonder if the lies and unethical practices are a cultural phenomenon or a business practice. The answer really is irrelevant because none of us find it acceptable. But it isn't specific to one school, but a trait found in all of them. Given that you encounter fewer unethical practices and even fewer embellishments at the more established schools, one can speculate that it is a growing process that each school goes through and that once the school is secure, it ceases this behavior. That may be total ** or just wishful thinking.

    Much has been said about the character of one of the people you made reference to. Some have focused on his credentials while some have expressed opinions of him on a personal level. I agree with those who have expressed the opinion that this individual does not matter. He sounds like a good salesman--and I have never believed a salesman. That doesn't excuse any lies he may or may not have told, but the rule in life is "Buyer beware". The constant theme on this web site is to visit the school, do your own research, contact your medical board. I've been on this web site for a couple of years and there hasn't been anybody with the credentials to offer any expertise about selecting or assessing a school. As a result, you will get personal opinions, both pro and con. Some of it is good advice, in my opinion--from both those offering pro and con perspectives. Yet, all of it should be considered as unreliable. The biggest shortcoming of ValueMD, in my opinion, is the absence of objective information. I believe it exceeds the grasp of this web site.

    To that end, I'll offer a brief defense of myself. There are people who perceive me as being pro XYZ school. Not true. In St. Christopher's case, I have no affiliation with the school and will not be having any. My comments have not been in defense of the school but against the lies and distortions that have been used to denigrate the school. I am on record as saying that I would not go to this school because of the charter issue that arose. But I will reiterate that once this issue is resolved, I think it will be as good as any other offshore school. Perhaps my biggest complaint is that the lies and distortions that are used are harming the legitimate criticisms that are made about each school. It's a sad commentary that health professional plebes cannot rise above the fray. Fortunately, those with an agenda are so transparent that even the most naive of us soon learns to distrust their comments.

    In summary, you'll find many sympathetic to your concerns. I'd say I'm sorry that you were lied to, but it's not my place to offer that. As far as the current issues with St. Christopher's...it will be resolved. We've already seen that evidence. It's an emotional roller coaster for those affected and most of us here feel for you. My honest gut feel? Hang in there, as I think you'll be glad you did.
    Life is sexually transmitted.

  4. #4
    jpryor's Avatar
    jpryor is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedracer
    Amen, to your comments, and the TRUTH! It's about time someone spoke up, and presented the REAL TRUTH! I highly commend your bravery.

    I bet you won't be getting too much responsese from the "Pro" St. Chris people!
    The truth, huh? Maybe you'd like his answer to this....

    Quote Originally Posted by medques
    HI i am currently a student at Univ of Debrecen in Hungray. My time here has been amazing and i have learned alot. I was wondering is it better to stay here and finish my degree or transfer to a carib med school where you can do Clinical rotations in the US and everything is in english? Is it really important to do Clinicals in the states if thats where i eventually want to work? or do licencing boards care more about step 1 marks and things like that?


    That one's dated 2-14-06. And this one...

    Quote Originally Posted by medques
    Hi i am a University of Debrecen student, I did not have a BSc and i did not sit the examination, just a very easy entrance interview..however i did pay an angent close to 1200 canadian. Some of the Agents there are crooks, but luckly i hooked up with the right one. I think it was the best 1200 dollars i spent. Not only did i get exempt from the entrance exam, he also helped me alot upon my arrival. I also got one months rent free at the dorms, and free taxi rides for a week until i got used to the city, and alot more. so i personally think if you find the right agent its totally worth it.

    As for the school, the study is HARD (easy to get in, hard to stay in), but hard work always pays off, overall a very very good school.


    Dated 2-27-06




    Life is sexually transmitted.

  5. #5
    empathy's Avatar
    empathy is offline Senior Member 516 points
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    I admire your courage

    I've rec'd emails from other students and their stories were very similar to yours. I asked them to come forward and call the GMC, Oregon or the US Dept. of Education for advice. They felt helpless and depressed -- just wanted to wait it out. Only a couple of schools will accept credits they'd paid thousands for so they knew they were facing a total loss. Some couldn't afford to move and begin again so their dream of becoming a doctor was over.


    Quote Originally Posted by medques
    I came to St. Chris because, from another medical schoo, because it was a tri sem program and offered clinical exposure in the United States. I met with Mr……F and…..Dr….L in my home town and they really convinced me about the school. Dr…..L gave a presentation in my home town stating that in 2007 or 2008 they would be fully accredited in the UK and that students would not even have to sit the PLAB????? He also stated that they were in the process of eventually getting approval in Cali, and Tex???????? I don’t know if he was tired from his flight and the only thing his toung could flap out was a bunch of lies, but he sure did do a good job of making a fool of me. I actually even had the opportunity to talk to Dr…L..for along time after his presentation…He told me that the school also had an affiliation with John Hop??????/ So what I would like to ask/state to the St. Chris “allies” is this:
    a) Let alone getting fully accredited in the UK, we don’t even have the right to sit the PLAB
    b) Cali and Tex?…it would be good if we can just get ECFMG back first
    c) John Hop? I don’t even know what to say about that one….you pro “St. Chris” guys tell me

    I am not trying to degrade St. Chirs, I was really excited to attend the school and was looking forward to life in England. But I really feel as if I was lied to and cheated, like that is a whole lot of ** to throw out of ones mouth, I think at this point his mouth is so dirty from the lies that, not even extra strength Colgate will clean it.. Dr….L…also walked around to our class rooms, informing students about the school and whatever else, and the question was raised to why we lost the Cleveland Clinic? Dr…L’s response was “it has nothing to do with the GMC”…alright fine…so I called Mr…..F…in new jersey his response was.. “As soon as the GMC issue is resolved, they said we could have the clinic back”…ummm o.k so who Is right? And who is wrong? Way too keep your stories straight guys, good JOB. All I can say is, the teachers at St. Chris are good, most of the faculty is good also. Overall the school WOULD have been good, but if the foundation of the school is built on lies, then the consequence and the events that are occurring speak for themselves. You have to lie a million times to cover up the original lie, so why not just tell the TRUTH. This has been my experience here at “St. LIES school of I wanna just make money so I’ll tell people things to get them to come to the school.” I hope people read this post and make a good decision. The TRUTH is buried underneath a mountain of LIES, so if one can move this mountain please let me know the truth that lies there. As for students looking to come to this school?, I hope your source of info into didn’t come from the Admin like mine did.

    P.S. I am new to value MD..so if there is something wrong with this post, let me know, But even if there is something wrong don’t edit it out..unless you want to edit out the truth.


  6. #6
    stephew is offline Moderator Guru 512 points
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    i can assure you there is no relationship with johns hopkins.
    Steph
    If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

  7. #7
    medques is offline Temporarily Banned
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    Well to let you know I am currently a St. Chris student, and many of my friends from Debrecen and I use this same log in name…we don’t sit on Value Md 24 hours a day..we have better things to do like study..I never even knew what this was until last year.. so I am sure if you use your digging skills you could find some more posts under this log in name to prove me wrong, why don’t you use you digging skills and find the TRUTH about the school, put it to good use instead of trying to prove me wrong. Well this characters “Honest gut feel is to hang in there, and us St. Chris students will be glad” Let my give you another analogy I think you cant process stuff very well. As you stated , “ I do not attend the school nor have I been to its campus”, so then you do not know how the 800 students of St. Chris feel. Imagine someone is holding a gun to your head….how would you feel??… you have no where to go, no where to turn, and no idea what to do and your scared…you would be stuck and forced to wait until the gunman decided to let you go or shoot you…THAT’S how St. Chris students feel…the Admin has this gun to our head s (the issues affecting st. chirs)….we don’t know where to go, or what to do…were forced to Wait until they make a decision…. IF we go based on these “Gut” feelings of yours and other St. Chris supporters including the admin that’s like saying…….ohh that’s o.k… if someone is holding a gun to our head, maybe he’ll decide to put the gun down, then everything will be o.k…and we’ll become best friends one day… get real, obviously people are in a panic, and scared...and there gona look for a way out of this, instead of waiting and hoping the Admin will come up with something (which they haven’t). Instead whats gona happen is the Admin is gona shoot the future of current students down the drain..… I am telling you first hand, my experience… If you think logically for a second dose it makes sense to gamble with ones future and WAIT until its resolved….you might as well get shot in the head then…the FACTS are right in front of you…. Again I say the foundation of this school is based on LIES, and people that lie and play with the densities of these many people cant be good people, and they cant be running a legit business, and cant be trusted not now, not in the future.

    Were basically putting our lives in the hands of the Admin and many other people when choosing to come here, so all we can hope for is that these people are honest and trustworthy. Your saying that every school goes through this, yes o.k but why now?, why not in 1998 or 1999 OR was it 2000 when we supposedly had a proper charter and a proper affiliation to the school in Senegal. Many Caribbean schools have gone through this, but in the early years of there existence, I believe… so why are we going through this now, I don’t get it??… I don know why you cannot admit what’s in front of you. Your logic and perspective seem legit.. yes the school would want to achieve goals such as Cali approval, I think even you know how hard that is?,..So when Dr….L.. told me this he used it as a selling feature…, he might as well have told me that they were getting approval to practise on the moon….is that a realistic goal to strive for…. Its IMPOSSIBLE for St. Chris at this point…unrealistic and I only realized that when I came here. You have to have proper labs at the institution, a huge faculty, research coming from the institution to get Cali approval, so I think St. Chris is a couple of light years away from that still…not only am i saying this…I had a meeting with the dean....those were infact his words…”Light years away” from anything like that, so why say that??? Just to get students to come to the school.

    What happens to “new criminals” that enter jails??….they get………….up the………..by the senior criminals, so this leads me to think maybe the St. Chris supporters are like the new criminals in the St. Chris jail…and I don’t know now if the Senior criminals such as DR…..L….are doing the same thing to you guys as would be done in a jail, and that’s the reason for all your support of the school, even when the facts are written in front of you??…maybe that is what’s going on, I don’t know…if it is…you sure must like the feeling…your just as much of Liars and Criminals as they are….don’t try and twist around or justify someones LIES…I know I got lied to….so did many other students who are going threw this pain and suffering…all we can do is hope for the best…my only advice is get OUT before that bullet goes off…

  8. #8
    jpryor's Avatar
    jpryor is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    The panic in your post is quite evident, so I'll try not to trip any buttons to aggravate it. I think you'll agree that multiple users of the same account from different schools can confuse people. So, let's assume you are a St. Chris student and go from there.

    I can research and find the few posts I've made stating that if the suspicions of the GMC were proved accurate that the administrators of St. Chris should be held accountable. I'm not glossing over anything on their behalf. But I'm not on a vendetta against the school, either. We all waited to see which way the wind was going to blow when this thing erupted. The majority of us were holding our breaths that no harm would befall the students. Unfortunately, you and your classmates are sitting on the front lines of this battle and some of us do sympathize with you. But allow me to offer some insight that may help you to see the reality of things.

    You say that there are 800 students at St. Chris right now. That represents a fairly healthy chunk of money in tuition for the owner(s). Given the amount of money invested and the amount of money that can be made from this venture, it is reasonable that everybody connect to the operation of the school is doing everything possible to expedite a resolution. That's pretty much common sense. People like to complain that these schools are only interested in money, so it works in your favor if that is true.

    There is clear and objective evidence that the charter issue has been resolved. This doesn't come from anybody here on ValueMD, from the school or any party that can be considered biased. IMED has updated its web site that confirms there was a valid charter from 2000, that the Luton campus is the chartered school and that this entire issue was baseless. The government of Senegal did not provide the explicit documentation that the ECFMG wants, so the ECFMG has pended approval of any new applicants until it recieves the requested documentation. But even in doing so, the ECFMG acknowledged Senegal's recognition of the school--again, an objective party that isn't going to be swayed by any school or government representative. In its subsequent e-mail exchanges from people, like me, who made inquiries, the ECFMG reiterated its position...it needs it explicitly stated that the Luton campus is the chartered school. Senegal made an effort to do that, but just not to the satisfaction of the ECFMG.

    If you see doom and gloom in this, I don't think I'd be critical of you. I knjow it has to be hard sitting there going through this without getting information you can trust. I'm not a cheerleader for the school nor do I have an axe to grind with anybody involved in it. I wouldn't lie to help the school and I certainly wouldn't lie to harm it. I've watched this unfold and I see the evidence emerging. I don't have to have confidence in this working out because it has already been shown that it will.

    But, if you want to pull the trigger...
    Life is sexually transmitted.

  9. #9
    Tritonesub is offline Member 510 points
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    If you feel like you've been cheated, why not leave? You transferred before (the reason for that left to speculation). There are many that are quite happy where they are and dont feel 'lied to'. I understand that from your history that you have some problem succeeding at medical school and this ECFMG publicity may be your chance to 'get rich quick' for your 'pain and suffering', but if its this type of compensation you're after perhaps your on the wrong side of the medical industry. There was never any claim that St. Chris had approval in cali and texas, only that we were in the process of building the school up to get approval in those states. What was always said was by the time you actually get to the point of applying for license (depending on your level.. around 10years) in those state we would probably have them.

    Medicine is a commitment (something that a divorce expert wouldnt understand) you put your head down, ignore all the rumors and pursue your goals inspite of the road blocks. You deal with issues when you get there and you will be able to overcome them. How can you even talk about a license when you have not passed a single licensing exam or know if you'll pass any of them?
    Last edited by Tritonesub; 03-01-2006 at 06:40 PM.
    ....Life in the key of Eb

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    medques is offline Temporarily Banned
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    Sorry if multiple users of my account confuses people, I don’t use this web site much, and i am just here to get some quick answers. It seems to me as you were trying to show people that I was lying and my story was **, I am sorry I don’t LOVE the politics on this web site as much as you do, but I want to get some answers myself and keep other students informed as I feel that is the right thing to do? Do you not agree?


    I am wondering if your not a St. Chirs student? And you Have never been to the Campus? Then why do you have so much interest in the drama going on here? I mean you e mail the GMC and ECFMG and do all these other thing, WHY?? isn’t DAYS of our LIVES more interesting then St. Chirs???..I am sure it is. Your on the outside looking in, it easy for you to judge the outcome of this drama cause your just watching it.. your not actually in the fire. SO of course I am PANICED why wouldn’t I be its common sense for a student in my situation to be.. I’ve invested my money and more so my time and effort here which is priceless.

    I am not just coming here to degrade the college, I am here to tell my side of things. I used to tell everyone to come to this college I even told people that if all goes well in 5 or 6 years time and maybe just maybe it would bypass the big 4 Caribbean schools. But I am here now in the mix of things? And I am seeing everything first hand, I walk threw the halls of St.Chirs I talk with the GMC and faculty and that is how I came to these conclusions., and I take that statement back in a heart beat. I think you would agree that the reputation of a school is very important?? and based on the reputation and history of events that occur in a institution, that is something State licensing boards will look at right?? I was told that when your applying for a licence the state boards don’t look at the “good stuff” in your application they look at the "bad stuff" in your application, so they can throw it out and move onto the next candidate, who has nothing wrong with his application and he/she is given the licence. I don’t know but something like the events that are occurring at St.chirs could potentially give them a reason to throw you application in the garbage ??…WHY would anyone risk that?…you should phone a licensing board and ask them if the school you attend is important? See if they tell you the same thing? its not "Wishful" thinking on my part, its the only logical train of thought that makes sence.

    What evidence is there that the charter issue is resolved?? I was told from a student that received an mail from the GMC that there investigating a fraud with the charter…yes there maybe an affiliation now and a charter now, but what about 1998 when the school opened.??. and the graduates of the school before that time? Was there a charter then??…if you say it doesn’t matter then your wrong??…I asked a associate director of a NHS hospital in Leeds who had offshore medical students practising at his clinic and YES they do care, about the establishment and charter issues of offshore medical schools that send there students to NHS hospitals. They want proper documentation of the schools Charter, affiliations, ect..ect.. .So I don’t know maybe I am to worried and tripping out…maybe you know something more about this then I do? I don’t

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