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  1. #1
    Crane is offline Permanently Banned 511 points
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    Going For Low Tuition Makes Sense!

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    I canít remember how many times I read on these posts that people should go to the so called top four schools as if that somehow would remove the Caribbean stigma. Read this article about an AUC graduate and a medical examiner in KS and consider the tone of the piece. No matter where you go and how well you do, Caribbean medical education carries with it a certain amount of stigma. It comes down to how much you want to pay for the privilege of that lifetime stigma? I would go to a school that charges the least amount of tuition and has a track record and lots of licensed graduates. Unless you must practice in California, the CA list debate is a lot of hogwash and states are moving away from that. Having said that, no one knows the future and going to start up schools with no track record is still very risky in my opinion.

    Mary Dudley, Jackson County medical examiner, has a Caribbean medical degree - Kansas City News - Plog

  2. #2
    Crane is offline Permanently Banned 511 points
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    Read This Eye openning Article

    I am posting this article from NY Times as originally posted on the AUA forum. I think the article supports my hypothesis that given all the risks inherent in offshore medical education, going to a low tuition school with a solid track record is the best hedging stardagy aginst all things unknown.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/yo...ney.html:hail:

  3. #3
    chuksobia is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    You are very right most Americans dont know the difference between the so called big 4 and any other carribean schools. You are still considered a carribean grad.

  4. #4
    Crane is offline Permanently Banned 511 points
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    The Chance of Making It

    Quote Originally Posted by chuksobia View Post
    You are very right most Americans dont know the difference between the so called big 4 and any other carribean schools. You are still considered a carribean grad.
    Even more importantly, students would have a much more realistic chance of finishing up and becoming an MD in a school like Spartan than the bigger schools. This is probably against the conventional wisdom, but the big Caribbean schools are all about image and hype to enroll as many bodies as possible. Then in order to eliminate the bottleneck, they start flunking people out. When it comes to schools in the Caribbean nothing is ever as it seems. But people will never learn.

  5. #5
    Trillium is offline Member 513 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crane View Post
    Even more importantly, students would have a much more realistic chance of finishing up and becoming an MD in a school like Spartan than the bigger schools. This is probably against the conventional wisdom, but the big Caribbean schools are all about image and hype to enroll as many bodies as possible. Then in order to eliminate the bottleneck, they start flunking people out. When it comes to schools in the Caribbean nothing is ever as it seems. But people will never learn.
    This accusation has been made before and is difficult to substantiate. Some say Ross' high attrition rate is an attempt to cut back numbers, while other schools like SGU put many support services in place (for example: SGU Student Success - Student Support services, community, student orientation and academic careers). Not sure about AUC and Saba.

    If you do a search, there's lots of discussion on attrition rates among the top schools.

  6. #6
    heywood100 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crane View Post
    but the big Caribbean schools are all about image and hype to enroll as many bodies as possible.
    And profit.

    The bigger ones are more business like with a normal business objective of max profit.

    Smaller ones also have that objective but achieve it in an alternative way. They cant take in a zillion into 1/2 year as the demand isnt there. Smaller intake and get majority to keep paying into year 4.

    It is sound business if you can take in 600 into year 1 to take them in knowing you may only have rotations for 400.

  7. #7
    Crane is offline Permanently Banned 511 points
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    Profits

    Quote Originally Posted by heywood100 View Post
    And profit.

    The bigger ones are more business like with a normal business objective of max profit.

    Smaller ones also have that objective but achieve it in an alternative way. They cant take in a zillion into 1/2 year as the demand isnt there. Smaller intake and get majority to keep paying into year 4.

    It is sound business if you can take in 600 into year 1 to take them in knowing you may only have rotations for 400.
    Keep in mind that some of these so called big four schools have US finacial aid that is financed by tax dollars. It is not sound business to take in excess students knowing you can't accommodate them, put them in debt, and stick the taxpayers with the lossess when those students can't repay the student loans. The same can be said about some US schools that get people into debt like the NY Times article I posted here earlier.

    One of the reasons Caribbean schools lost their student loans was because of practices of some of these larger schools. Of course, Congress grandfathered the real culprits and cut the rest of the schools loose. No body said politicians are smart.

  8. #8
    From NJ is offline Member 510 points
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    I was the first one and before the information session began by Ross and I overheard the recruiter talking on his cell phone about the pressure to take in a large number of students. This was after DeVry bought Ross.

    Later on I learned that they take in 550 (or more in one semester). I don't know if they still have that practice. And they do so knowing full well they don't have that many rotation spots. They have to fail students. I hope they don't do it intentionally, but who is going to take the trouble to prove that. It would be cost prohibitive.

    That is the reason a large number of Ross students have to transfer to other schools.

  9. #9
    Crane is offline Permanently Banned 511 points
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    Do The Math

    Quote Originally Posted by From NJ View Post
    I was the first one and before the information session began by Ross and I overheard the recruiter talking on his cell phone about the pressure to take in a large number of students. This was after DeVry bought Ross.

    Later on I learned that they take in 550 (or more in one semester). I don't know if they still have that practice. And they do so knowing full well they don't have that many rotation spots. They have to fail students. I hope they don't do it intentionally, but who is going to take the trouble to prove that. It would be cost prohibitive.

    That is the reason a large number of Ross students have to transfer to other schools.
    Of course they do it intentionally. In one year, Ross puts in equivalent to the entering classes of three or four US medical schools. There just isn't that many rotation spots for that many students. Have you noticed how all the Caribbean schools use more or less the same hospitals? This is because there aren't that many places that are willing to accept Carribean students. There is no way that Ross doesn't know what is going on. The basic sciences are pure profit for them and then, they wash them out. Even a US medical school will crumble if it took on that many students in a single year.

    They have always been doing this but it has gotten worse since the sale to DeVry. If people were going to Ross and spending their own money, I'd say who cares. But they aren't. They are using taxpayers' money and are making it difficult for the rest of the students in Caribbeans because these practices have eliminated the student loan for all the other students.

  10. #10
    doc2be1day is offline Member 512 points
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    Value for money

    Despite the bashing of the big schools, like Ross, the fact is that even with their attrition rates their students have a much higher USMLE pass rate and almost all their students get matches. Most of the smaller schools have pass rates about 20-40% and when even 1 student gets a residency match the students jump for joy as if proof they can make it too. And the difference, in my opinion, is not that Ross (or SGU, or AUC) students are necessarily brighter, but that school can afford good faculty, better academic and administrative support services, buy more clinical rotation spots, etc. Ross is a business, yes, but a better run one than most smaller schools and provides better chances of becoming a doctor. Even if the tuition is a third less at some smaller schools, it's not a savings if your chances of becoming a doctor are much less. The only chance of paying back the $150,000 or so of debt is to get a residency and become a doctor who can get license. So going to a cheaper school only makes sense if it is one that has a proven record of good pass and match rates. I would put MUA, AUA and a couple of others only in that category. If you are going to go into debt to become a doctor be very careful where you choose to go to school.

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