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  1. #1
    MilesToGo is offline Newbie 510 points
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    ARMC -Surgery Core

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    (I just finished my surgery core here and there is limited info about this rotation since it is relatively new for SGU students so here is my two cents. Let me know if you want to know anything else or have questions that I neglected to answer.)

    The Place- a county hospital east of Los Angeles (Inland Empire and Desert region)
    Level 2 Trauma Center with Burn Center – good exposure to trauma plus plenty of bread and butter stuff that gets turfed from community hospitals, etc. The hospital grounds were rebuilt three years ago and everything is updated, modern, nice.

    The Population- mainly Medicaid/ uninsured pts that most often accept you as a care provider despite your student status

    The Staff- plenty of DOs but also some MDs depending upon the dept, ancillary staff is mixed but for the most part pretty great. PA students and DO students from Western and Touro also rotate through.

    The Schedule-
    12 weeks divided into 2 blocks, order is different for everyone (Block B may proceed Block A. Block B is comprised of three separate components and again the order is different for everyone)
    Block A: General Surgery or Trauma Surgery Service – 6 weeks. A typical weeks will include 1 day of clinic, 2-3 days of OR time and 1 day of rounds followed by lectures or you may help with consults in the ER, or take the trauma pager… Your OR time and clinic day are based upon your assigned attending thus vary from student to student. The service you are assigned determines who you write notes for each day otherwise there is no real difference.
    Block B: Study Period- 2 weeks, Sub-specialty (we got to pick between ENT, Ortho and Neurosurgery. SICU may be an option if you have already completed IM)- 2 weeks, Night Float- 2 weeks
    Lectures are scattered throughout the week and vary in time and content but overall pretty good.

    Call- because of the night float system we only had three full 30 hour calls during our Block A/ general surgery time of which two were a weekend day. So that means you get more weekends off than not which is good because you need the time to study (almost impossible to really do so during the week.)

    The Hours- depending upon how busy the service is and how long it takes you to write notes, etc a typical day is from 4am-6pm but there will be many days you can leave early and sometimes you may be in the OR until later.

    Responsiblities- The Medical students are responsible for rounding and writing notes on up to four patients every morning. The intern is also suppose to see the patient but you are the primary person checking the patient pre-rounds. Your note does get read and counts which is good because you are an active part of the team but also bad because you may have to leave during rounds to go to the OR or clinic and thus not be around to find out what is going on with your patient. If this bothers you as it did me then you can go back to the floor later and check on your patient, talk to your team, etc. however no one will make you do this. This rotation, like all others, is dependent upon how much you care, how hard you want to work and who you end up with. You will get out of it what you put into it.

    Other Stuff- Parking in gated lots, free. Cafeteria is typical hospital quality, no vouchers given to students but it is pretty cheap. There is a student/resident lounge with microwave and fridge if you want to bring food. Students have access to the library and there are limited copies of Lawrence's Essentials of General Surgery (a must read) that you can check out for 2 weeks at a time.

    Overall it was a great place to do surgery. There is some variability in what you see depending upon your assigned attending (burns vs vascular vs oncology vs general sx) and what you pick for sub-specialty (I did neurosx and loved it but worked much harder than classmates that picked ENT.) Night float allows you plenty of time to go to the OR and see “typical” general surgery cases. Many of the interns are doing their categorical or prelim year and thus are not surgery interns per se so it is mixed as far as how knowledgeable they are but the actual surgery residents are great and so are the attendings as far as teaching goes. I would recommend ARMC for surgery. The hours are long and the mornings early but if you can get past that you will learn and see a lot.

  2. #2
    digitalising's Avatar
    digitalising is offline Moderator 6117 points
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    I am thinking of a FP rotation there, how is the housing situation? Do you need a car?
    SGU Forum Moderator - "I wouldn't do that if I were you."

    "I got a letter last year asking me if I would donate my brain to a medical school in Grenada. I'll tell you, there are days where I think, yeah, why not just get it over with." ~ Sam Seaborn, The West Wing

    SGU '12, Specialization in saying, "Is that Dora? You know she's an illegal immigrant, right? Love a more American character, like Red Elmo!"

  3. #3
    BigE is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalising View Post
    I am thinking of a FP rotation there, how is the housing situation? Do you need a car?
    FP is pretty intense there, in comparison what you would assume an FP rotation should be. Its more like an IM rotation. Just to let you know, you will be monitoring your own patients (they do not distinguish what year med student you are, and pt. load max of 5), meaning that you write your SOAP notes, you are responsible for them, and directly answer sometimes to the resident, but mostly to the attending during rounds. After a week or so, I had 5 patients that I prerounded and wrote SOAP notes on, then hunted down the resident to sign my orders for all of them. There were a variety of interns and I never really interacted with them too much because they have their pooh pooh to do. Lets just say you are a full intern there, and there has not been a single rotation that I have had this much responsibility. Its actually scary.

    As for a car, its a must unless you are lucky enough to find a room in the houses near the hospital, even then, I would prefer a car. Not a single student I know didn't have a car, except 1, and that student would carpool to the hospital. Housing: safer houseing, the city next door, Rancho Cucamonga. In Colton would not be a good idea, unless you live on the outskirt. There is an apartment complex in the nice are of Colton, its called Centrepointe apts, but its a 1000/month for fully furnished, and there you can pay month to month. If you are planning to stay longer, like 3+ months, then Rancho would be ideal. Lastly, you can check rotating rooms, crgslist, and some people I know find housing near loma linda from random folks, which is like 10-15 min rive to the hospital. Hope this all helps, let me know if you want more info.

    As for surgery, I'll put my 2 cents in a bit later, and compare Surg. at ARMC with all the other core rotations.
    "Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration."

  4. #4
    digitalising's Avatar
    digitalising is offline Moderator 6117 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigE View Post
    FP is pretty intense there, in comparison what you would assume an FP rotation should be. Its more like an IM rotation. Just to let you know, you will be monitoring your own patients (they do not distinguish what year med student you are, and pt. load max of 5), meaning that you write your SOAP notes, you are responsible for them, and directly answer sometimes to the resident, but mostly to the attending during rounds. After a week or so, I had 5 patients that I prerounded and wrote SOAP notes on, then hunted down the resident to sign my orders for all of them. There were a variety of interns and I never really interacted with them too much because they have their pooh pooh to do. Lets just say you are a full intern there, and there has not been a single rotation that I have had this much responsibility. Its actually scary.

    As for a car, its a must unless you are lucky enough to find a room in the houses near the hospital, even then, I would prefer a car. Not a single student I know didn't have a car, except 1, and that student would carpool to the hospital. Housing: safer houseing, the city next door, Rancho Cucamonga. In Colton would not be a good idea, unless you live on the outskirt. There is an apartment complex in the nice are of Colton, its called Centrepointe apts, but its a 1000/month for fully furnished, and there you can pay month to month. If you are planning to stay longer, like 3+ months, then Rancho would be ideal. Lastly, you can check rotating rooms, crgslist, and some people I know find housing near loma linda from random folks, which is like 10-15 min rive to the hospital. Hope this all helps, let me know if you want more info.

    As for surgery, I'll put my 2 cents in a bit later, and compare Surg. at ARMC with all the other core rotations.
    Sounds pretty intense. What's the call schedule like?
    SGU Forum Moderator - "I wouldn't do that if I were you."

    "I got a letter last year asking me if I would donate my brain to a medical school in Grenada. I'll tell you, there are days where I think, yeah, why not just get it over with." ~ Sam Seaborn, The West Wing

    SGU '12, Specialization in saying, "Is that Dora? You know she's an illegal immigrant, right? Love a more American character, like Red Elmo!"

  5. #5
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    TheFooBar is offline Elite Member 8339 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalising View Post
    Sounds pretty intense. What's the call schedule like?
    The last rotation I had that was described as intense gave some students nightmares.
    SGU SOM Dropout, M.D.

  6. #6
    digitalising's Avatar
    digitalising is offline Moderator 6117 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFooBar View Post
    The last rotation I had that was described as intense gave some students nightmares.
    Well, maybe it'll update my "Oh no, I forgot to do project x and it's due today" nightmares from high school to medical school.

    Honestly, it's like I never went to college/grad school at all.
    SGU Forum Moderator - "I wouldn't do that if I were you."

    "I got a letter last year asking me if I would donate my brain to a medical school in Grenada. I'll tell you, there are days where I think, yeah, why not just get it over with." ~ Sam Seaborn, The West Wing

    SGU '12, Specialization in saying, "Is that Dora? You know she's an illegal immigrant, right? Love a more American character, like Red Elmo!"

  7. #7
    BigE is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Um, there is no call, but when I was on, it was one week night float one week day. Now I think they changed it where you have certain days 8am-8pm, then some days 11am-12am, and then 8pm-8am, not specifically in that order, but you get the gist. I think you also admit everyday, or something.

    But please don't get me wrong, I think it was one of the better rotations because I really felt that I was in charge of my own stuff.
    "Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration."

  8. #8
    MilesToGo is offline Newbie 510 points
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    I'm starting FM there on Monday so I'll know more then and do a proper write up when the time comes.... But from what other SGU students said during the rotation it is intense, IM-like but overall a good learning rotation. As BigE mentioned there is no call. Just different shifts: 8a-8p, 10a-10p, 8p-8a or rounds only. Very limited/ rare weekends off.

    And for sure you need a car. Housing within 10-15 min of the hospital can be found for an okay price.

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