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  1. #1
    howardhoavan is offline Member
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    What the different between 3 and 4 years E.R

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    Some School like University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago offers three years program, while University of Illinois College of Medicine at Michigan offers 4 years. What the difference ?

    /howard

  2. #2
    ResearchingGuy is offline Senior Member
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    Three vs. Four

    I cannot personally give you the lowdown, but suggest you visit:

    http://www.saem.org/rescat/contents.htm

    There seem to be many more three year than four year programs and there doesn't seem to be any clear demarcation across areas of the country or community vs university programs.

    Try dropping a pm to JV here at ValueMD. He will be starting an EM Residency this July and I'm sure he can give you some excellent first hand information.

    Best of Luck!

  3. #3
    rdecastro is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    There are also a few PGY 2-4 EM residency programs, just to totally make it difficult to figure out.

  4. #4
    DSMMD is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    3 vs 4

    There are three different types of EM residency

    The first is the 1-4 concept. This is where it is a 4 year residency where all 4 years you are with the same program. Proponents of this system state that it allows more time for some off-service rotations and more exposure to other areas of medicine. In addition, other programs utilize the 4th year as a junior attending type of situation to prepare you for when you leave.

    The 2nd concept is a 2-4 program. This is where you do your intern year separeately (may be at the same hospital or somewhere totally different). You then go into the residency and do 3 years of heavily focused EM (although you will still do off-service rotations). In my opinion, the downside to this is that if you are going to do a 4 year program, it is better to do all 4 years at the same place where you are part of a team rather than just going to one place for the first year and not being in the system.

    The last concept is a 1-3 program. Most programs out there are this type. I think that at an appropriate 1-3 program, you can see and do just as much in the 3 years as you can do in the 4 year programs. With that being said, often times there is not the opportunity for as much off-service rotations or electives.

    With all this being said, you have to realize that there are some programs that are 4 years that will only hire people that have either done a 4 year residency or a 3 year residency and a fellowship. It is my understanding that many programs in Boston are like this as are some in California. SO, if you wish to go to these areas, research the situation first.

  5. #5
    ResearchingGuy is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks

    Thanks DSM for stopping by to give us the word on EM programs.

    Do you see a general drift in either of the three directions?

    Best of Luck!

  6. #6
    howardhoavan is offline Member
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    Thanks DSMDM

    Also, I just want to know how competitive E.R residency would be in term of USMLE score.

  7. #7
    rdecastro is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Re: Thanks DSMDM

    Quote Originally Posted by howardhoavan
    Also, I just want to know how competitive E.R residency would be in term of USMLE score.

    Conventional wisdom says that EM (NOT ER, thats a TV show) is fairly competitive but not impossibly so for FMG's. A better than average step I score (in the 220's) and good LoR's should do it, as long as you pick the right program.

    The right program is probably not one that doesn't have any FMG's, is heavily academic (which the 4-year programs seem to be), or is at a prestige hospital/med school. However, the quality of EM residencies seems to be universally good everywhere so a prestige location doesn't matter much, unless you want to go into academic EM. Even then, it's possible to get academic positions as an FMG.

    Finally, there should be more residency slots and perhaps more programs in the future. The demand is going to increase for EM trained specialists, mainly in less urban areas.

  8. #8
    DSMMD is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Time to beat a dead horse again

    These questions I am sure have been answered on this form as well as others out there that are dedicated to Emergency Medicine....but here goes.

    The best program out there is the program at which you are fortunate enough to match. Every program that is accredited has to meet a strict standard therefore, there really is no "best program". There are programs that carry a big name; however, I will put the training and experience I received at a "lesser-known" program up against anyones in the country. The clinical experience I had was phenomenal. Presently working at faculty at another residency program, I can tell you that there is no comparision between the two programs in terms of what I was able to see and do as a resdient vs. what the residents at my current program experience. With that being said, there are certain advantages to the current program with which I am affiliated that was not afforded to me as a resident. So, different stroke for different folks. I can tell you that I am thrilled with where I trained.

    In term of competitiveness, EM is competitive as a residency. It is of course much harder as a Foreign Med grad as there are many programs out there that do not want to look at IMGs. When I applied for residency NY and California were not available. Now that they are, there are many more programs out there. With that being said, I applied to I belive 47 programs and had only 4 interview offers. I met people on the interview trails that were US grads whose board scores could not touch mine and were getting over 20 interviews. (I know that my grades were good and my letters of rec were very good and personalized as well). But, it is just a fact of life that it is harder for IMGs than US students.

    So, in summary, any program (1-3, 1-4, 2-4) can be a good program. As I said, I completed a residency at a program that does not have a great name; rather, we had great experiences. I am working at another residency program now while completing a fellowship (in my estimation the best place in the country to do this particular fellowship), and I will be completing the fellowship and heading towards another academic institution where I will be on faculty and supervising residents. So, anything can happen if you bust your tail.

  9. #9
    howardhoavan is offline Member
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    Thanks everyone, it is very helpful

    thanks

  10. #10
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    Sada and EM

    I am not sure if you have had time to look through the match results for Saba, but I noticed that there were 3 EM matches in 2004 alone!! I think that 2 of them were through Wayne State... Also, it looks like Wayne State has been pretty accepting of FMG's.. Good Luck!!
    JS

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