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  1. #1
    edumed123 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    russian schools are good?

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    Hello, everyone
    I was wondering is there any statistics of how many USA students go to study medicine in Russia? Having been rejected by USA med.schools/CAD I am thinking of Carribean vs Europe vs Russia. By posting on Russian medical forum schools was wondering about advantages or why people choose Russian med schools?
    Considering only Moscow or St.Petersburg.

    Any comments appreciated. (sorry if the thread is repeated)

  2. #2
    bpoichan is offline Member
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    why russian med school? let me tell you why..

    hi there,

    I was reading your thread and could feel your interest and doubts about russian med schools. I am american and graduated from a top 10 us university and went to med school in russia.
    I was accepted at the university of wisconsin-med school but due to $ did not. or should i say could not go.
    My goal was to get back to the US with an accredited medical degree that did not cost me an arm and a leg. I understand that many say .. well when you ll be an MD .. you ll make enough money and will be able to repay the debt.. well i dont want to have to pay half a million dollars debt.
    The caribbean med schools are still expensive for the type of education they provide.. the thing is that americans like them as they are geographically near to the US.. so that proximity factors does affect people. Most profs in the caribbean med schools are non-american trained docs.. and a good deal of them are from RUSSIA.. for some strange reason.
    my view was this: well.. all that will eventually matter are my grades and USMLE scores.. mostly the USMLE scores..
    i then did not get frightened anymore about a foreign med school.. as i had met many foreign trained docs in the US.. and they told me the advantage.. of not having debts..
    why russia? well the admission process is FAST.. i guess that the people were happy to get an american student aboard..
    and the most important point for me was the following:

    1-In russia, the laws are not as strict as they are in the USA.. I dont care what some russian will reply to this.. i just know it for a fact..
    I was allowed to practice A LOT!!! .. i thought to myself.. well .. i am going to a russian med school.. so i need to get something extra out of it!!and that was lots of practice..
    i did lots of operations.. did some deliveries.. and was greatly involved in orthopedics and skeletal trauma.. i was soo involved that i was better than some residents..

    2- the tuition is cheap.. $5000 max.. only the USA has this outrageous tuition fee.

    Now you asked ' are russian medical school good?'... well you can go to HMS and still know nothing.. I have learned a great deal.. spent lots of time using and abusing what was given to me.. so that i d leave the place with no regret..
    my buddy took the usmle and scored 93..that s much better than many US medical students.. and i am taking mine this summer..

    now let me tell you this..

    if i was a rich kid.. i would have definitely stayed in the USA.. that s for sure..
    but i am not a rich kid and found a way to make my dream come true.. russia help and i am thankful in this respect..
    I understand that IMGs have a harder time getting a residency in US hospitals.. but since we are americans.. it is a LOT easier..
    anyway hope it helped.. take care..

  3. #3
    applemas's Avatar
    applemas is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Bpoichan, may i know is the syllabus taught in russian medical school sufficient for USMLE?

  4. #4
    bpoichan is offline Member
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    ok..

    hi there..

    well.. NO med school in the world could guarantee you a full preparation for the USMLE. Each and every country has its own medical curriculum and is not necessarily geared towards the USMLE.
    My good buddy from the University of Paris Med school.. took the USMLE after 2 years prep..and did not pass..yet the Paris med school is reputed.
    That however does not mean that Paris med school students are bad docs.. they are just not taught to take the USMLE.

    well .. that said.. at PFU, I can say that I was exposed to all the main pathologies that are to be known for the USMLE..of course the obscure diseases that are not high-yield are not.. the basic sciences pretty much covered the topics that are needed to be known for the USMLE..
    the good thing is that PFU is a 6 year program.. so if you have the motivation and wits to work hard. and also learn a lot .. you can not only be really well prepared for the USMLE but also will be able to actually do some interventional medicine!!
    but i am not saying ' hey! as soon as you re done at PFU.. you can walk in any Prometric center and sit for the USMLE' that would be pure suicide..

    a buddy of mine prepared about 5 months for it and had a 93... i am taking mine and will post my score..

  5. #5
    edumed123 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    thks bpoichan for reply, appreciated.

    tution is nothing compared to some US schools and I am starting to hear a that students get lots of practice over there. Any problems with safety?

  6. #6
    bpoichan is offline Member
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    good practice in russia ..if you re motivated!

    Hi there..

    yes indeed the tuition is nothing at all..

    I wanted to add one thing that i felt was not negligible.. I found it interesting that some russian docs could be extremely good while in the same hospital you ll find the lousiest doc ever.. how come?
    well the answer is simple.. it is the med schools.. .. you see.. med schools in russia can make the BEST docs..and the WORST docs.. the spectrum is pretty wide over here..
    while in the US the spectrum is narrower.. docs from US med schools have somewhat an equal level of knowledge.. otherwise the med schools reputation would take a hard blow..

    In russia.. if you are not motivated.. you could get by 6 years of med schools.. by just getting up.. going to classes .. take naps during lectures..and go home right after class.. during tests..quizzes and exams..(I ll make a thread about the interesting system of quizzes, tests and exams in russia..if anyone wants to know let me know) you could make some cheat sheet and really get by. ..and get your medical degree WITH HONORS!!!.. that s how soo many foreign students from MMA got their MD..now you can guess the type of docs that they ll be..

    However at the other end of the spectrum.. if you are a really motivated student with a goal... then russia would definitely give you what you need as long as you meet the right person in the department of your interest..
    the anatomy labs, and topographic lab are open for you and you can use them and abuse them.. i trained doing sutures there soo many times on cadavers and spent countless hours that the cadavers themselves were tired of me!!

    During the clinical rotations.. all my classmates would RUSH back to their dorms after class, while i d stay extra and learn and do more.. let me give you a few examples but before i do that .. you need to understand that healthcare in RUSSIA is free.. so you will not find patients saying ' I DONT WANT A STUDENT TO TOUCH ME!!' .. those that can afford saying that will be in some private hype hospitals..and if a patient tells you that.. you simply reply ' I AM A DOCTOR' and they ll shut up...:

    Internal Medicine: the hospitals are literally FULL of patients.. and those patients are from poor background.. many of them are longing to have someone look at them.. and they ll be happy to see you!

    Surgery:I was soo fortunate to be at PFU as the guys in surgery are soo cool! .. they just let you assist at operations..and then eventually will start knowing your name..and knowing you.. and then will give you stuff to do .. the best thing is to find a mentor and he ll guide you..i have assisted and done many appendicitis..some hernias... have even done a treponation (remove the blood from head injuries.) and all the basics suturing and stuff .. but have seen soo many surgeries!!

    i could go on and on .. but the pic is simple... if you want to learn .. then the doors are open for you.. especially at PFU.. as they are friendly to foreign students..and if you come from the western world..they ll even be friendlier...but then eventually ..they wont really care. I had to do night shifts.. at the surgery .. orthopedics.. traumatology departments and every time an ER patient arrived...we d rush (actually not rush.. we took our time..docs dont really care to work hard and get paid about $100/month) to the ER room..and i would just take care of the patient..

    it was all positive experience..and i am thankful for it..

    Now dont get fooled..
    I was lucky for the following reasons:

    1- I was a PFU student....when i was at MMA they NEVER allowed me to stay after class.. my german ophthalmology resident friend. at MMA. NEVER operated .. he was allowed to walk to patient to the OR and prep them for operation and that was it..
    MMA does not allow their foreign residents to touch patients...therefore imagine for undergrad students..so do not fall for the ' best medical school in russia' kind of crap.. cuz MMA is definitely crap..

    2- they did not give me things to do the first day .. it took me a week or 2 for them to start seeing that i was serious and committed..

    3- PFU was best for Orthopedics/trauma, ob-gyn, surgery, internal med, neurology, ophthalmology.. so if you are interested in getting real hands-on experience in these fields then go to PFU .. you wont regret it.
    I know that they were open to students in ENT and NEUROSURGERY..

    my mauritians friends and indian ex-classmates at MMA.. never cut skin.. and could only some of them could do sutures on cadavers.. i was amazed of how much i had learned at PFU in such a short time..

    i guess you get the picture.. my answer is yes you can get all the practice you wish for.. russia is still backward in some legal aspects and I took advantage of that..
    As an UNDERGRAD med student .. i believe that i was exposed to ..and did stuff that many people would do in the PG-2 .

    hope it helped..
    take care!

  7. #7
    bpoichan is offline Member
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    safety?

    edumed 123,

    when you talk about safety.. do you mean about safety in the streets?? skinheads and stuff?
    if that is so let me answer you

    if you are white.. you ll be FINE

    if you are colored ..or somewhat of a darker skin (middle eastern.. south american)..asian.. ..then there are spots in the city that you should avoid at night and during special events as soccer games and concerts..
    that said, at PFU.. the foreign student community is soo large that the vicinity of the campus the shops (as a supermarket and 2 metro stations are nearby) are totally safe..

    if you get a car then you are 100% safe anytime anyplace in moscow.. ..well the only threat might be the cops who might stop you and try to get you to pay them ..

  8. #8
    edumed123 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    yes, I meant safety on the streets so I guess I am okay
    thread about quizzes and tests will be interesting
    Overall, I get the picture thx for comments. Actually, one more thing how do you get admitted to MMA as I understood you were there first. What kind of admission exams you took and in what subjects? (were they multiple choice or interview, etc.)

  9. #9
    bpoichan is offline Member
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    Mma ???!!

    admission to med school is not competitive.. no entrance examination is required for foreign students ..you see medicine is not a prestigious profession in Russia..and the russian ' elite' would never consider medicine as an option at this present time..

    There are NO Prestigious medical program.. like that of HARVARD med school or JOHN s HOPKINS.... in Russia they are all the same and what makes a difference is how less corrupted the teaching staff is.. how open they ll be to you.. and how helpful they ll be to you.. these are what will make a medical program better than another in russia..

    when people talk about prestigious schools in Moscow.. they are more talking about Law schools.. and business schools.. such as MGIMO.. Financial academy.. or Baumann academy for engineering..
    as for medicine that does not exist.. unless for the military medical institute of St petersburg or Omsk..which anyway take russian students only..

    all you need to do is to contact the admission staff.. tell them about your interest to attend their med school... and they ll tell you to fax the proper documents.. which are.. if i remember... passport copy.. transcript copy...and some form that you ll have to fill ...

    now if you are thinking of the MMA.. then i wish you luck as i believe it would be easier to make contact with extra-terrestrial life...anyway contact them and wait.. wait...wait.. and wait..
    as for the best place that is PFU.. the process will be definitely more expeditive and you ll get a reply within weeks..
    I ll make a thread about the quizzes.. tests and exams..
    take care
    PS: if you are thinking of the MMA .. i am telling you THINK AGAIN..but again.. it is your decision..

  10. #10
    applemas's Avatar
    applemas is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpoichan View Post
    med schools in russia can make the BEST docs..and the WORST docs.. the spectrum is pretty wide over here..
    while in the US the spectrum is narrower.. docs from US med schools have somewhat an equal level of knowledge.. otherwise the med schools reputation would take a hard blow..

    In russia.. if you are not motivated.. you could get by 6 years of med schools.. by just getting up.. going to classes .. take naps during lectures..and go home right after class.. during tests..quizzes and exams..(I ll make a thread about the interesting system of quizzes, tests and exams in russia..if anyone wants to know let me know) you could make some cheat sheet and really get by. ..and get your medical degree WITH HONORS!!!.. that s how soo many foreign students from MMA got their MD..now you can guess the type of docs that they ll be..

    However at the other end of the spectrum.. if you are a really motivated student with a goal... then russia would definitely give you what you need as long as you meet the right person in the department of your interest..
    the anatomy labs, and topographic lab are open for you and you can use them and abuse them.. i trained doing sutures there soo many times on cadavers and spent countless hours that the cadavers themselves were tired of me!!

    During the clinical rotations.. all my classmates would RUSH back to their dorms after class, while i d stay extra and learn and do more.. let me give you a few examples but before i do that .. you need to understand that healthcare in RUSSIA is free.. so you will not find patients saying ' I DONT WANT A STUDENT TO TOUCH ME!!' .. those that can afford saying that will be in some private hype hospitals..and if a patient tells you that.. you simply reply ' I AM A DOCTOR' and they ll shut up...:

    I 100% aggree with you! But, some people (incl some doctor) may just assume that russian medical school is bad by judging the bad spectrum students. Actually, i feel rather bad for it especially when i do my summer practical in my motherland. How you face it. Bpoichan, may you share your experience?

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