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Thread: Surgeons

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    paneer masala1 is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Surgeons

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    Ok, So I am in need of some advice. I was looking on Ross's match list. PYG-1 had surgeons but then in PYG-2 there was not a category for surgeons. My question is: Can you become a surgeon from Ross??????

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    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    Well, obviously yes, as there were GS matches on the list.

    But frankly, that goal was probably easier 3-5 years ago (and it has not been easy to begin with) than it will be moving forward. And that goes for any foreign school, not just Ross. The most reliable non-USMD path to a surgical career is USDO school, and by a pretty wide margin. There are DO surgical residencies that are only available to DO grads, in addition to the MD surgical residencies to which one could apply.

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    medic300107's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paneer masala View Post
    Ok, So I am in need of some advice. I was looking on Ross's match list. PYG-1 had surgeons but then in PYG-2 there was not a category for surgeons. My question is: Can you become a surgeon from Ross??????
    I think you are misinterpreting the way match works. You need to know if a position is categorical or not. What this means is you start as a PGY-1 and go to PGY-5 at the same place. So seeing PGY-1 Surgery categorical means they matched to a full surgery residency. Surgery preliminary is a one year appointment. Many people match this who have to scramble or as we call it today "SOAP". This means they didn't get a regular position through the match and had to try to get anything available and usually Surgery Prelim has many openings. This year there were over 400 unfilled surgery prelim spots so this is why you will see a lot of surgery prelim over categorical. It does not mean these people all wanted to go into surgery and didn't get a spot. Hope this clarifies
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    paneer masala1 is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Yes, I understand that you PGY-1 is an intern year. However, those students did not stay in the surgical path. By PGY-2 the people that were in residency for surgery disappeared. This leads me to believe that the people left because they did not like or they were asked to leave. If it was the later, then wouldnt that mean that Ross did not prepare them for the residency?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paneer masala View Post
    Yes, I understand that you PGY-1 is an intern year. However, those students did not stay in the surgical path. By PGY-2 the people that were in residency for surgery disappeared. This leads me to believe that the people left because they did not like or they were asked to leave. If it was the later, then wouldnt that mean that Ross did not prepare them for the residency?
    how can you tell by looking at the match list who stayed or left pgy 1 and 2? I think you are misreading, that list doesn't state whether someone stayed in residency what it shows is those who matched to advanced positions. Some things like anesthesia don't take pgy1 you have to do either a preliminary or transitional year first so you actually are trying to match two different years in the same year. If you see Surgery Categorical PGY-1 there shouldn't be anything in the PGY 2 column because those people will do all 5 years at the same institution. If you see surgery prelim pgy1 and anesthesia pgy2 that means they matched an intern year and to an advanced specialty like anesthesia. If you see preliminary or transitional that means either they only matched the pgy1 intern year but not to an anesthesia or similar specialty and will need to reapply for the pgy2 advanced position again next year, OR they didn't match and SOAPed into a spot to at least get 1 year going.
    Last edited by medic300107; 03-20-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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    fewl is offline Junior Member 523 points
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    devildoc is absolutely right. If surgery is your goal, go DO, especially for Ortho, which is actually realistic for DOs. IMO you'd be foolish to go to Ross expecting to match cat GS. You can get it from Ross or any carib, but from the 3 people on FB that I know that did this year, it's basically the step 1 250+, top 1% of the class. You can get a decent prelim surg spot (e.g. mayo clinic), but you are going to have a tough time turning that into a categorical spot, maybe having to do multiple prelim years, research fellowships, etc. Most the people in the 230s who want to do surgery end up having to do this, or giving up and doing neuro or something else IMG friendly that will accept their intern year. Part of the problem is that there are extremely well qualified FMGs who are surgeons in their home country who are willing to go through all these hoops (e.g 8-9 years of residency) to do surgery and programs know it and know they can get scut monkeys with 250s. Both the categorical PGY1s during my gen surg rotation were FMGs who had already done 1-3 years of prelim surgery/research at prestigious places (Think Lehay, Yale, Mayo, etc) and had 250+ on step 1, step 2. Some of the seniors were already in their 7th year of residency. The prelims were caribs with 230ish and had little hope of getting a cat spot this year from what I heard. There was a prelim pgy2 from a carib school who was actually quite excellent, excellent prelim, scores etc who was applying to IM/FM/Neuro in addition to one last attempt at cat GS. If you don't even hit that step 1 score, there's basically no hope. And going forward, if you follow the AMG vs Carib thread, you'll see several of us who matched feel like the window for us is basically closing rapidly.

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    paneer masala1 is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Thank you. Think I'll just go to DO

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    paneer masala1 is offline Newbie 511 points
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    What is an IMG?

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    devildoc8404's Avatar
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    IMG = International Medical Graduate.
    (also some modeling agency, or International Management Group in NYC, but I don't think that those apply in this case.)
    hemeonc88 likes this.

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    Riften is offline Junior Member 513 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc8404 View Post
    IMG = International Medical Graduate.
    (also some modeling agency, or International Management Group in NYC, but I don't think that those apply in this case.)
    lol

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