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  1. #1
    hopelessMD is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    Can anyone dispute with me that MCAT scores have direct correlation to step scores?

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    This is age old debate but from all my research there is direct correlation. Meaning all you guys with below 30 mcat will have trouble with steps. Of course there is always a few who either fell asleep on MCAT or had a fluke (which beg a question why you didn't go retake it).

    For reference, here is a study correlating MCAT with COMPLEX (step 1 and 2). Comlex is DO school equivalent. Long story short there is DIRECT correlation.

    Relation Between Variables of Preadmission, Medical School Performance, and COMLEX-USA Levels 1 and 2 Performance -- Dixon 104 (8): 332 -- Journal of the American Osteopathic Association


    I am not doing this to piss anyone off, just to make some noobs realize just cause you got 25 on MCAT doesn't mean you will change your test taking strategy, do extremely well on step and get into surgery...

  2. #2
    diabeticmedic is offline Junior Member 514 points
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    It's absolute garbage. I got a 23N on my MCAT and a 238 on step 1 (sorry to toot my own horn). The MCAT is the worst exam I have ever taken; completely irrelevant for the study and practice of medicine.

    If the MCAT were really a direct correlate, the Caribbean schools would probably go out of business because no one would pass the steps. While there are people who have trouble on the steps, no one in the Caribb got a 38 on their MCAT but PLENTY of people get 99's on steps. Just my experience!

  3. #3
    futuregasdoc is offline Junior Member 512 points
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    Hopelessmd. That's exactly what you are, hopeless. You bring so much negativity to this forum. Do us all a favor. Draw a map and get lost. Thanks

  4. #4
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    gfliptastic is offline Member 655 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopelessMD View Post
    This is age old debate but from all my research there is direct correlation. Meaning all you guys with below 30 mcat will have trouble with steps. Of course there is always a few who either fell asleep on MCAT or had a fluke (which beg a question why you didn't go retake it).

    For reference, here is a study correlating MCAT with COMPLEX (step 1 and 2). Comlex is DO school equivalent. Long story short there is DIRECT correlation.

    Relation Between Variables of Preadmission, Medical School Performance, and COMLEX-USA Levels 1 and 2 Performance -- Dixon 104 (8): 332 -- Journal of the American Osteopathic Association


    I am not doing this to piss anyone off, just to make some noobs realize just cause you got 25 on MCAT doesn't mean you will change your test taking strategy, do extremely well on step and get into surgery...
    I was expecting to have to argue FOR the fact there IS a decent correlation. The top 5-6 hits from google all share this same paragraph.

    "The Physical Sciences section assesses problem-solving ability in general chemistry and physics and the Biological Sciences section evaluates these abilities in the areas of biology and organic chemistry. The Verbal Reasoning section evaluates the ability to understand, evaluate, and apply information and arguments presented in prose style. The Biological Sciences section most directly correlates to success on the USMLE Step 1 exam, with a correlation coefficient of .553 vs .491 for Physical Sciences and .397 for Verbal Reasoning.Predictably, MCAT composite scores also correlate with USMLE Step 1 success."

    And as an ex-Kaplan MCAT teacher, we were taught to explain the significance most AdCom's place on Bio Sci and Verbal scores. [From our classroom "scripts": "Bio Sci is a good predictor of a students performance in med school. Verbal is a good predictor of how a students ability to take the Step 1"

    The naysayers will point out how there are many people in med school that have sub 30 composite scores (and the mean for DO schools is a 27), but the "prevalence" of the sub 30 matriculants are based on the fact that English was a 2nd language, and Verbal scores brought down their composite scores.

    That goes w/o saying tho, that natural abilities are only part of performance in medical schools. I would challenge that a 36 MCAT student who does the bare minimum in med school will get a better board score than a 28 who works his/her butt off and studies diligently! Determination and hard work should NEVER be underestimated.

  5. #5
    YZF600 is offline Member 541 points
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    I'm pretty sure the MCAT requires little "innate knowledge" to do well in.

    Instead, it is a measure of personal dedication, and the ability to study and retain data, just like the Step exams.

    There are many reasons people do poorly on the MCAT. Sure, there could be a student who does poorly, but studied 8 hours a day, and still couldn't retain the knowledge. I feel this student could very well struggle through med school and the Step exams

    However, most students who take the MCAT are still young, and many have not reached the level of maturity needed to devote oneself to medicine. For many of these students, they simply don't put in the work needed to do well on the MCAT. If these kids can find the motivation to succeed in school, there is a real possibility they can succeed on the Step exams.

    So, i will say that on average, someone who does poorly on the MCAT has a couple underlying factors that can sabotage them later on. but also, many students come into their own during med school, or in the time they take off after undergrad graduation.

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    pr0ton is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    i read the paper and it's total **.

  7. #7
    humble1 is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    Please read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I HAVE A LIFE COACH THAT TAUGHT AT BROWN UNIVERSITY AND SCORED A PERFECT ON THE GMAT.....HE MAKES LOTS OF MONEY JUST TEST COACHING NOW...HE HAS A MASTERS IN PHILOSPHY AND MATH..........OK HE SAID THAT MED SCHOOLS HAVE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE APPLY... THE MCAT IS A WAY TO WEED OUT 70% OF APPLICATIONS because its just to many people to go through and read their applications. Oh and it does show work ethic but thats it really... but does not factor in life problems like death, time to study because of work, depression, anxiety etc.... He said that this is what all standard tests are there for because the med schools just dont have the time to read all applications......HE SAID EVERYBODY HOLDS THE KEYS TO THEIR OWN DESTINY IN ANY PROFESSINAL SCHOOL HARDWORK IS WHAT TELLS IF SOMEONE CAN PASS THE USMLE NOT MCAT!!!!! GOD BLESS!!!!!!!

  8. #8
    myke de acuto is offline Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopelessMD View Post
    This is age old debate but from all my research there is direct correlation. Meaning all you guys with below 30 mcat will have trouble with steps. Of course there is always a few who either fell asleep on MCAT or had a fluke (which beg a question why you didn't go retake it).

    For reference, here is a study correlating MCAT with COMPLEX (step 1 and 2). Comlex is DO school equivalent. Long story short there is DIRECT correlation.

    Relation Between Variables of Preadmission, Medical School Performance, and COMLEX-USA Levels 1 and 2 Performance -- Dixon 104 (8): 332 -- Journal of the American Osteopathic Association


    I am not doing this to piss anyone off, just to make some noobs realize just cause you got 25 on MCAT doesn't mean you will change your test taking strategy, do extremely well on step and get into surgery...

    Hoplessmd, All I can say is read these posts
    http://www.valuemd.com/premed-forum/...in-debate.html

    Long Live the Oracle.........
    LONG LIVE.......THE ORACKLE

  9. #9
    firstoutsider is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopelessMD View Post
    This is age old debate but from all my research there is direct correlation. Meaning all you guys with below 30 mcat will have trouble with steps. Of course there is always a few who either fell asleep on MCAT or had a fluke (which beg a question why you didn't go retake it).

    For reference, here is a study correlating MCAT with COMPLEX (step 1 and 2). Comlex is DO school equivalent. Long story short there is DIRECT correlation.

    Relation Between Variables of Preadmission, Medical School Performance, and COMLEX-USA Levels 1 and 2 Performance -- Dixon 104 (8): 332 -- Journal of the American Osteopathic Association


    I am not doing this to piss anyone off, just to make some noobs realize just cause you got 25 on MCAT doesn't mean you will change your test taking strategy, do extremely well on step and get into surgery...

    really ?! HopelessMD, what did I tell you about hopelesswalmartdoorwelcomer, or hopelessburgerflipper job for your career? (assuming that you ever get one)
    you are just like Chlamydia or Gonorrhea, no matter how bad you want get rid of them, they just came back....I felt your parent pain when have a kid like you, jkass...

    You said Ross failed you in purpose then you went for DO school in the States (again assuming you never lie in this perfect world) so why don't you save your energy to study? leave this forum for good. I hope I won't see another thread posted by HopelessDO said: DO school in States failed you in purpose...
    Admission to ROSSU [Hidden Content ]
    Sem 1 - 5 : [Hidden Content ]

  10. #10
    MaxPower311 is offline Member 518 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopelessMD View Post

    I am not doing this to piss anyone off, just to make some noobs realize just cause you got 25 on MCAT doesn't mean you will change your test taking strategy, do extremely well on step and get into surgery...
    Um...okay?

    Well half our class better get their withdraw forms filled out, we're all screwed! Our destiny is already set.

    So, after years of prep, disappointment and rejection in the states, and hard work in school and in extracurriculars, we should just say F it and find another career.

    Statistics can be very confusing for many people

    I hate feeding the trolls but what else do I have to do on a Sat night. Find something else to do with your life.

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