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  1. #1
    DoctorJ is offline Junior Member
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    Primary Care MD Salary?

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    How much money does an internist or a family doc make in primary care? Relatively speaking?

    I'm interested in getting a N.D. (doctor of naturalpathic medicine) degree after my residency. These schools will take me into their program with advance standing if I hold a license to practice allopathic medicine.

    N.Ds from 5-6 schools are eligibe to practice in California after passing the board exam and they make $200/HR and see avg. 10 pts per day.

    I'm wondering if say setting up a shop in a nice place (Beverly Hills/Boca Raton) and accept only cash from wealthy people.

    Not a lof of overheads too coz you prob don't need assistants. And I guess you can incorporate allopathic medicine for acute cases by prescribing drugs...etc.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    FLK's Avatar
    bannedFLK
    FLK is offline Temporarily Banned
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    Primary Care MD Salary?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorJ
    What do you guys think?
    well I think ND's do not practice evidence based " medicine"

    and I think there are a lot of people in Beverly Hills or hollywood that will pay big money for the plaecbo effect and for somebody to tell them to eat a balanced diet and get plenty of exercise and sleep

    not to mention you can then get your license and prescribe controlled substances to go with your goose liver extract.

    They can call you Dr Feelgood. I think Winona needs a new PMD
    in fact, you could set up a clinic over the viper room on sunset blvd


    dunno, maybe after you complete your residency you'll have a diff opinion on that.

    anyway, primary care docs aren't earning 200$ an hour. ( that's 400K a year based on a 40 hr work week )
    as I inspect my last check, my hourly rate at my primary job is 96$ an hour after 6 years post grad training!

    maybe I need to start prescribing fairy dust I can double my hourly rate!

    a fairly biased view of the topic can be found at http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...turopathy.html

    I did find this passage particularly entertaining


    Naturopathy's grandiose claims attracted the sharp pen of Morris Fishbein, M.D., who edited the Journal of the American Medical Association and spearheaded the AMA's antiquackery campaign for several decades. He noted:

    Whereas most cults embrace a single conception as to the cause and healing of disease, naturopathy embraces everything in nature. . . .

    The real naturopaths were, of course, such healers as Father Kneipp . . . and others who advocated natural living and healed by use of sunlight, baths, fresh air, and cold water, but there is little money to be made by these methods. Hence the modern naturopath embraces every form of healing that offers opportunity for exploitation. [10]

    The practices Fishbein debunked included:

    Aeropathy: baking the patient in a hot oven
    Alereos system: spinal manipulation plus heat and mechanical vibration
    Astral healing: diagnosis and advice based on reading the patient's horoscope
    Autohemic therapy: giving a solution made by modifying and "potentizing" a few drops of the patient's blood
    Autotherapy: treating infections with potions made from the patient's infected tissues or excretions
    Biodynamochromic diagnosis and therapy: administering colored lights while thumping on the patient's abdomen
    Bloodwashing with herbs
    Chromopathy: healing with colored lights
    Electrotherapy with various devices
    Geotherapy: treating disease with little pads of earth
    Irido-diagnosis: diagnosis based on eye markings -- now called iridology
    Pathiatry: self-administration of spinal adjustment, massage, and traction
    Porotherapy: treatment applied through the pores of the skin to the nerves said to the control internal organs
    Practo-therapy, a fancy term for intestinal irrigation
    Sanatology, based on the notion that acidosis and toxicosis are the two basic causes of all disease
    Somapathy: spinal adjustment followed by applications of cold or extreme heat
    Tropo-therapy with special nutritional foods
    Vit-O-Pathy, a combination of 36 other systems
    Zodiac therapy, combining astrology and herbs
    Zonotherapy (now called reflexology): pressing on various parts of the body to heal disease in designated body "zones." [10]

  3. #3
    dt
    dt is offline Elite Member 510 points
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    ..

    I think that if you have both a MD and a ND, and are able to incorporated both in your practice competently, you should be able to do well.

  4. #4
    DoctorJ is offline Junior Member
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    Primary Care MD Salary?

    anyway, primary care docs aren't earning 200$ an hour.




    My family doctor, an internist, charges $50/visit for people paying out of pockets and I don't know how much he gets from the insurance company. He spends less than 10 min with each patient and he works 8 hrs/day and 6 days/week.

    4 examination rooms, 1 nurse, and 2 secretaries (shares an office with an opthalmologist).

    So he sure makes more than $200/HR. Has a $750K house and a $85K car.

    But realistically speaking, is it possible? Basically I'm saying what's the AVG a primary care MD will make?

    Around $120K/yr??

  5. #5
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    teratos is offline Jedi Moderator 658 points
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    Average

    Average internist makes $150,000 per year. $50/visit is a pretty nice payment for 15 minutes of work. Keep in mind we have to pay rent, office staff, malpractice insurance, phone, office supplies etc. More than half of what you make goes to these wonderful things. Not unusual for an internist to bill 400K per year, but that ain't what you are taking home.

    Naturopathy is a fad. Thinking people don't go that route. Why would any rational person take a leaf and use it to treat a disease. Sure it has the same active ingredient as what you get in your pill (i.e. foxglove), but you don't know how much you are getting, you don't know which bear wizzed on it, you don't know what else is in it. There is no EVIDENCE behind a lot of it. Unlike real medicine (that's right, I said real medicine) where we have a ton of data behing every treatment. When I give a drug I know what the side effects are, what the blood concentrations are going to be, and what effect I should expect from a given dose. Anyone who "integrates" and M.D. with an N.D., should realize that they don't want to prescribe anything that hasn't been throughly studied. Far too much liability, and far to little data. There are some herbs that have been well studied, and some work, but the majority is just speculative. G
    AUC Class of '99
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    DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

  6. #6
    prsch132 is offline Junior Member
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    Really....

    Wow...I bet alot of people mistake you for God! If your "medicine" is so "safe" then why is this????

    http://www.delpshopepage.org/Is%20US...he%20World.pdf


    106,000 DEATHS PER YEAR FROM PROPERLY GIVEN MEDICINE! Wow! Medicine at its best! Perfect Medicine!

  7. #7
    prsch132 is offline Junior Member
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    Really....

    Wow...I bet alot of people mistake you for God! If your "medicine" is so "safe" then why is this????

    http://www.delpshopepage.org/Is%20US...he%20World.pdf


    106,000 DEATHS PER YEAR FROM PROPERLY GIVEN MEDICINE! Wow! Medicine at its best! Perfect Medicine!

  8. #8
    DoctorJ is offline Junior Member
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    Hm...

    Dr. Durst, so $150K/yr is the NET income after everything else deducted right?

    A program that I've interviewed at told me if I want to stay and become an attending after 3yrs they'd pay me $120K/yr.

    Now that you guys are done and everything, is it better to work for a hospital or have your own private practice (joined practice and be your own boss)?

    Any benefits of becoming a Chief Resident? What do you have to show to become one? Work extra hard to earn respect of your fellow residents?

    Apologize for all of these questions. I sort of want to take this time to figure out my next 5 year plan/goal.

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    DoctorJ is offline Junior Member
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    In Addition

    My original idea was to allow my patients to choose what they want, if I can do both. Of course in acute cases, you need to intervene with REAL allopathic medicine. However, it still has its limitations in treating some chronic diseases.

    I interviewed at UT Memphis and UC (Cincinnati) and some faculty members there also are doing CAM (accupuncture, homeopathy..etc). One of the faculty members at UT told me in one of his published studies which showed 40 percent of Americans have used some sort of CAM and NOT telling their doctors. Of course he was interested also in drug interactions and stuff. But 40 percent is a whopping number for Americans who are "interested" in CAM.

    So if you can do both, MD and ND, wouldn't that basically cover the "potential" market?

    I mean, if California is so tough on IMGs and they've approved and accredited these schools and curriculums, should that say something about the recognition of the ND specialty and the demands on the people?

  10. #10
    jim
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    hmm

    george, are you saying that "bear whiz" is therapuetical? hmm, maybe i should hang out under a tree full of honey but seriously, george, whats your opinion on the practice vs hospitalist thing ? I am already getting recruited for hospitalist jobs, as well as practices in some rural areas(only 6 months out of med school, not bad, hope the offers are still there in 2 1?2 years!)

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