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    Slaol's Avatar
    Slaol is offline Elite Member 7164 points
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    The Lottery: How Unions are Destroying Public Education in America

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    YouTube- THE LOTTERY Official Trailer

    In a country where 58% of African American 4th graders are functionally illiterate, The Lottery uncovers the failures of the traditional public school system and reveals that hundreds of thousands of parents attempt to flee the system every year. The Lottery follows four of these families from Harlem and the Bronx who have entered their children in a charter school lottery. Out of thousands of hopefuls, only a small minority will win the chance of a better future.


    Directed by M S and shot by award-winning cinematographer W H, The Lottery uncovers a ferocious debate surrounding the education reform movement. Interviews with politicians and educators explain not only the crisis in public education, but also why it is fixable. A call to action to avert a catastrophe in the education of American children, The Lottery makes the case that any child can succeed.

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    this is happening a lot. saw a great piece on a lottery system charter school in DC on 60 minutes recently
    but remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice. Remember that.

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    azulpanther is offline Moderator 696 points
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    I went to school in the NYC public system. The main problem is that there is not enough money to adequately fund the system. Teachers in nyc are paid significantly less than teachers in the surrounding counties further out in long island, new jersey, conn and upstate ny.

    Not only that, but there is not enough money to ensure optimal facilities for these students to learn.

    Some reasons why these charter schools are so successful are due to higher pay for the teachers and having much better facilities for students to succeed. Another important reason is that more parents of students at these charter school are more supportive of their children's education than the parents of students at public schools.
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    specialknyc is offline Moderator 6101 points
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    The salary for NYC teachers, IMO, is more than sufficient. They are paid a years salary for teaching aprox 180 days/year, and they get great benefits. There are plenty of people who work for harder (with equivalent educations) and earn equal or less. I personally know several NYC public school teachers who earn over 100K/year (and many many more who earn over 60K/year); they get paid additional money to teach summer school, and stay after and tutor several times a month (for another small fee). My point is that the system is the actual problem, education itself has become a bureaucracy and moved away from teachers actually teaching what is in a text book. Now they must follow specific outlines and must cover things in an exact way (every teacher I know - several in my family - constantly complain how much time is wasted because of this) Both my cousins teach at charter schools. Children (at least in theirs) are not accepted unless the parents play an active role in their education. For example they must donate time every month (a couple of hours or something) to help with the school, whether it is repaint a room, clean up, anything... but they must be involved. That said, more often than not parents don't show up, which leads to warnings and other consequences from what I understand. Charter schools are successful, based on what I have been hearing from teachers, because they can accept students and kick them out easily, when compared to regular public schools. Additionally, those parents who actually do care spend the time to get their child/children into a charter school, this shows a higher level of involvement to begin with. This higher level of parent involvement could only lead to the student doing better. That said, there are plenty, and I mean plenty, of crack addict parents sending their children to these schools. Both my cousins have told me countless stories of parents showing up to parent-teacher conferences completely drunk and/or high. And when they go to visit the family in their home, there is almost always the smell of marijuana in the air. Their students are ones who have been kicked out of other schools, and this is literally their last chance in many cases. Many of them (I would say near 80% in their schools) have criminal records and are gang members. They have found students passed out drunk, having sex, fighting, shooting heroin, smoking crack, stealing cars, and very often being visited by police (and these are the *creme of the crop*). Some students have siblings in the same schools (my cousin was telling me this on more than one occasion) and don't even know their last names (just to give you an idea of the free-for-all it is where they are). Due to their low level of tolerance they can get rid of those kids (who continue to mess up) and concentrate on the ones who actually work. They do have lots of great stories of children turning around and actually trying to become hair dressers or go into other fields of extremely low pay (which in my mind is part of the overall problem - the continued promotion of mediocracy). P.S. they teach in one of the worst parts of NY, so it is not surprising.
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    azulpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by specialknyc View Post
    The salary for NYC teachers, IMO, is more than sufficient. They are paid a years salary for teaching aprox 180 days/year, and they get great benefits. There are plenty of people who work for harder (with equivalent educations) and earn equal or less. I personally know several NYC public school teachers who earn over 100K/year (and many many more who earn over 60K/year); they get paid additional money to teach summer school, and stay after and tutor several times a month (for another small fee). My point is that the system is the actual problem, education itself has become a bureaucracy and moved away from teachers actually teaching what is in a text book. Now they must follow specific outlines and must cover things in an exact way (every teacher I know - several in my family - constantly complain how much time is wasted because of this) Both my cousins teach at charter schools. Children (at least in theirs) are not accepted unless the parents play an active role in their education. For example they must donate time every month (a couple of hours or something) to help with the school, whether it is repaint a room, clean up, anything... but they must be involved. That said, more often than not parents don't show up, which leads to warnings and other consequences from what I understand. Charter schools are successful, based on what I have been hearing from teachers, because they can accept students and kick them out easily, when compared to regular public schools. Additionally, those parents who actually do care spend the time to get their child/children into a charter school, this shows a higher level of involvement to begin with. This higher level of parent involvement could only lead to the student doing better. That said, there are plenty, and I mean plenty, of crack addict parents sending their children to these schools. Both my cousins have told me countless stories of parents showing up to parent-teacher conferences completely drunk and/or high. And when they go to visit the family in their home, there is almost always the smell of marijuana in the air. Their students are ones who have been kicked out of other schools, and this is literally their last chance in many cases. Many of them (I would say near 80% in their schools) have criminal records and are gang members. They have found students passed out drunk, having sex, fighting, shooting heroin, smoking crack, stealing cars, and very often being visited by police (and these are the *creme of the crop*). Some students have siblings in the same schools (my cousin was telling me this on more than one occasion) and don't even know their last names (just to give you an idea of the free-for-all it is where they are). Due to their low level of tolerance they can get rid of those kids (who continue to mess up) and concentrate on the ones who actually work. They do have lots of great stories of children turning around and actually trying to become hair dressers or go into other fields of extremely low pay (which in my mind is part of the overall problem - the continued promotion of mediocracy). P.S. they teach in one of the worst parts of NY, so it is not surprising.


    I wanna know where these teachers teach. Goodbye med school hello teaching public school in nyc.

    I also know quite a number of new teachers that just started teaching in the NYC public school system. Two of these teachers teach 8th grade, one in washington heights and another in forest hills queens.

    The teacher in washington heights tells me about all the times she would need a translator to speak to parents. If parents dont speak english, how can they help they kids with english, social studies and the sciences.

    My friend that teaches in Queens enjoys his job but complains about the low pay. He forces himself to participate in extracurricular activities with the school to make ends meet.

    I have another friend that teaches the 5th grade in the bronx. She has similar problems as the one in washington heights.


    Comparing to surrounding counties, teachers in the 5 boroughs are severely under paid. Several times in high school, wonderful teachers left for better jobs out on the island strictly because of more pay.

    Parents, the system and bad teachers are to blame for poor performances of students in the nyc public school system.
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    Slaol's Avatar
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    Here is a chart I found that explains the teacher salaries for NYC:
    http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...edule20083.pdf

    Here is the site I got the document from:
    Salary Step and Differential Schedules - Salary - New York City Department of Education

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    jackets5 is offline Senior Member 682 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by azulpanther View Post
    I wanna know where these teachers teach. Goodbye med school hello teaching public school in nyc.

    I also know quite a number of new teachers that just started teaching in the NYC public school system. Two of these teachers teach 8th grade, one in washington heights and another in forest hills queens.

    The teacher in washington heights tells me about all the times she would need a translator to speak to parents. If parents dont speak english, how can they help they kids with english, social studies and the sciences.

    My friend that teaches in Queens enjoys his job but complains about the low pay. He forces himself to participate in extracurricular activities with the school to make ends meet.

    I have another friend that teaches the 5th grade in the bronx. She has similar problems as the one in washington heights.


    Comparing to surrounding counties, teachers in the 5 boroughs are severely under paid. Several times in high school, wonderful teachers left for better jobs out on the island strictly because of more pay.

    Parents, the system and bad teachers are to blame for poor performances of students in the nyc public school system.
    NYC teachers start in the mid 40's and make 98 or 102k after 20 years. They work half a year and in reality 4-5 hours a day with lunch and 1 or 2 prep periods a day. They get very good benefits and pension packages not to mention not being able to be fired unless you pretty much assault a student. The myth that teachers are underpaid is absurd. Do they make as much on average as teachers on LI (who are vastly overpaid) no they dont, but there is more money on LI etc. The educational success of students is much more dependent on the involvement of the parents and not the quality of the teacher.

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    Teachers have to so easy. What a bunch of free-loaders! Honestly, I should give up my hedge-fund job where I do so much to help my community and take this kind of cushy job.

    Moreover, I still don't understand why my tax dollars are being used to pay for someone's kid. Why can't people just get jobs that will pay for their kid's education instead of being parasites on society? Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, just like GWB did!
    UCLA, Engineering (2006)
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    Teachers in Toronto are paid more than enough and have a very powerful union.
    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... " - ****** Jefferson

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    Bootstraps, people!
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