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Thread: Zarqawi is dead

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    Zarqawi is dead

    thank GOD this monster was exterminated like the roach he was.
    Last edited by Scott1981; 06-08-2006 at 09:06 AM.
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    to some people Z will forever be a martyr and a leader in their cause. to us in the US he is nothing but a criminal. i wonder how many will react to his killing and dedicate their lives to killing US soldiers/citizens? has there been any news on the fundamentalists reaction?
    I think the sentiment among our military is "free our hands or let us go home..."

    I say free their hands and send all the fundamentalists to hell to join their leaders who are now grabbing ankles in Hell...

    If 9/11 had happened in 1946, a few places in the Middle East would be a glasstop parking lots by now, and we wouldn't have any problems with Muslim terrorists now... How many "Japanese Jihadist" have you seen lately?

    If it were up to me, I say drop a few tactical nukes and bring our troops home.

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    troops

    we should just pull them out now and say F it. protecting the oil that we came to take isn't worth thousands of soldiers lives. split up iraq into minor countries each with their own people (Shi'ites, Sunis, Kheldeans), and get the hell out of there.

    Saddam ruled his country by force because there is no other way for it to work. too many different zealous religious sects = conflict conflict conflict. i am not saying he wasnt a brutal dictator, but look whats happening now? the whole country is rife with insurgents.

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    why

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanIMG
    we should just pull them out now and say F it. protecting the oil that we came to take isn't worth thousands of soldiers lives. split up iraq into minor countries each with their own people (Shi'ites, Sunis, Kheldeans), and get the hell out of there.

    Saddam ruled his country by force because there is no other way for it to work. too many different zealous religious sects = conflict conflict conflict. i am not saying he wasnt a brutal dictator, but look whats happening now? the whole country is rife with insurgents.

    why does the argument about 'taking' oil come up? we don't need to 'take' a freaking ounce of it! we are the worlds richest country and can buy it all.. we don't need to take, steal or even depend on an ounce of their oil.. i say get out of there, drill in alaska, pour billions into alternative fuel research and let the middle east deal with its 2000 year old baggage by doing whatever ethnic cleansing they want...

    maybe we can actually help people that are in real humanitarian need and not some bull crap political derived humanitarin need driven by the prospects of big building contracts like iraq.... maybe going in darfor or any other wasteland that is africa to actually help people that are in worse shape than iraq ever was?
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    yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by rrod
    why does the argument about 'taking' oil come up? we don't need to 'take' a freaking ounce of it! we are the worlds richest country and can buy it all.. we don't need to take, steal or even depend on an ounce of their oil.. i say get out of there, drill in alaska, pour billions into alternative fuel research and let the middle east deal with its 2000 year old baggage by doing whatever ethnic cleansing they want...

    maybe we can actually help people that are in real humanitarian need and not some bull crap political derived humanitarin need driven by the prospects of big building contracts like iraq.... maybe going in darfor or any other wasteland that is africa to actually help people that are in worse shape than iraq ever was?
    yeah but we never really go anywhere unless there is something we can get out of it, or people can profit.

    look at Sierra Leeone or Dharfur. we dont give a crap about them and we are talking about mass genocide.

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    Thoughts on Zarqawi, Oil, the Middle East, the Media

    OK I can't hold back - here's my 2 cents after serving in the Army for 14 years as an officer and having served in Afghanistan and Iraq is this: we go where our country needs us to go...so I agree with IMG below.

    How stupid would it be for us to send our soldiers into harms way in an effort that would not benefit the people of the US in any way. Sierra-Leonne and Darfur have plenty of neighbors who would benefit by their improved stability and security - they should care and step up. Sierra-Leonne and Darfur do not possess or influence any major resource or commodity that is critical to our nations security or survival...so why go there and do Africa's work for them...it benefits us in no way and would be a reckless endeavor by our government...we can help...with some $$$...and political work...but our guns and soldiers are needed elsewhere... it's kind of one of those "it would be nice to help...but were busy right now" kind of things.

    Like it or not: OIL is the major resource that keep our world running...unfortunate but true...everyone who sits at home in the cool Air conditioned homes, making their peace signs under bright lights, and then drives to anti-iraq war rallies in their SUV's - well their doing all that on middle eastern oil. Hopefully we'll break that dependency in the next 30-50 years and they can all cut their own heads off for all I care. But that's not the reality of our current world - we need a lot of oil, and not just the US, but the entire industrialized world runs off of the supply of oil that pumps out of the middle east. So that areas security and stability is critical to the economies of hundreds of nations besides our own...so now that terrorists are exporting their views and acts by bombing the US and European nations we're there trying to defeat the islamo-faschist movement and provide the space and the freedom for some democracy to grow in an environment that has become more and more hostile and less possible for democracy to spring up on its own.

    Understand this: The islamic extremists are focused on the destruction of the western world and of all religions besides islam...they want to take over the entire region, create a purely islamic state, and they won't stop there...then they will try and impose their will on the world and wipe out christianity, judaism, and any other religion or lack of it. That's a fact - thats what their leaders say - I have sat in interrogations and listened to them spew their hatred for anyone but fellow devout followers of mohammed...they even kill eachother sunni vs shia...they are crazy...and there is no middle ground with them - there is no compromise and no negotiations - the only choices are to let them build strength and take over the world or engage them and kill them.
    Since Mohammed's death in the 8th century the entire middle east has been at war back and forth (mostly between the ottoman turks or egyptians in the west and the persians in the east) until multiple fractured states were formed in the 19th-20th centuries and the people were then controlled by dicatatorial states (Iraq, Iran, SA, UAE, Kuwait). Dictatorial states are not ones we, a democratic state, are fond of, but the area was secure, oil was a flowing...so everything was OK. The growth of the islamo-faschist movement and groups like Al Queda have now disturbed that uncomfortable balance by attacking others. As far as middle east being all dictatorships or forced monarchies...I don't want to offend any turks out there...Turkey is a democratic state but most middle easterners don't consider turkey part of the real middle east. (Turkey is now joined by Afghanistan and Iraq as democratic middle eastern countries thanks to our Pres and congress and dept of state and of course our military).

    MARTYRDOM: Zarqawi is only a martyr to the thugs who are already commited to his cause. There's no farmers in Iraq trying to make a living for his family and get along with his neighbors that are upset about a foreign jordanian terrorists death. That farmer is not going to drop his rake, leave his flock and family, and go commit jihad now. The only people pissed off about Zarqawi's death are terrorists and the poor, young, males 14-24 who are being brainwashed into terrorists in the madrassas in saudi, yemen, and pakistan. Well it appears as if some of the democrats in congress are pissed off about his death too..but lets not get into US politics...but if Murtha, Reid, Dean, and Clinton want to go join a madrassa in Peshawar...I'll buy their ticket...

    OUR MILITARY - AND THE MEDIA's PERVERSION OF OUR WORLD: Our enlistment rates in the US are down because young men and women and their parents are fed a negative, anti-bush, cowardly view of world events that is controlled by the traditional liberal media. On the other hand, "re-enlistment rates" are sky high because our young men and women who go over there, meet the real iraqi people, and talk to them and work and fight in their communities along side iraqi army and policemen...they understand what is at stake and they know we are doing a good thing. Why would someone who is up front, in the face of a bad situation volunteer to come back and do it again? It's a shame that the media gives a spotlight to the handful of people who desert or refuse to deploy but the thousands who reenlist and are committed to going back over there and killing more Zarqawi's and helping the Iraqi people become free and stable...those soldiers..and those enlistment rates...get no mention on the news.

    Class is over - Jack-Man...OUT!



    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanIMG
    yeah but we never really go anywhere unless there is something we can get out of it, or people can profit.

    look at Sierra Leeone or Dharfur. we dont give a crap about them and we are talking about mass genocide.

  7. #16
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    yeap

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack-Man
    OK I can't hold back - here's my 2 cents after serving in the Army for 14 years as an officer and having served in Afghanistan and Iraq is this: we go where our country needs us to go...so I agree with IMG below.

    How stupid would it be for us to send our soldiers into harms way in an effort that would not benefit the people of the US in any way. Sierra-Leonne and Darfur have plenty of neighbors who would benefit by their improved stability and security - they should care and step up. Sierra-Leonne and Darfur do not possess or influence any major resource or commodity that is critical to our nations security or survival...so why go there and do Africa's work for them...it benefits us in no way and would be a reckless endeavor by our government...we can help...with some $$$...and political work...but our guns and soldiers are needed elsewhere... it's kind of one of those "it would be nice to help...but were busy right now" kind of things.

    Like it or not: OIL is the major resource that keep our world running...unfortunate but true...everyone who sits at home in the cool Air conditioned homes, making their peace signs under bright lights, and then drives to anti-iraq war rallies in their SUV's - well their doing all that on middle eastern oil. Hopefully we'll break that dependency in the next 30-50 years and they can all cut their own heads off for all I care. But that's not the reality of our current world - we need a lot of oil, and not just the US, but the entire industrialized world runs off of the supply of oil that pumps out of the middle east. So that areas security and stability is critical to the economies of hundreds of nations besides our own...so now that terrorists are exporting their views and acts by bombing the US and European nations we're there trying to defeat the islamo-faschist movement and provide the space and the freedom for some democracy to grow in an environment that has become more and more hostile and less possible for democracy to spring up on its own.

    Understand this: The islamic extremists are focused on the destruction of the western world and of all religions besides islam...they want to take over the entire region, create a purely islamic state, and they won't stop there...then they will try and impose their will on the world and wipe out christianity, judaism, and any other religion or lack of it. That's a fact - thats what their leaders say - I have sat in interrogations and listened to them spew their hatred for anyone but fellow devout followers of mohammed...they even kill eachother sunni vs shia...they are crazy...and there is no middle ground with them - there is no compromise and no negotiations - the only choices are to let them build strength and take over the world or engage them and kill them.
    Since Mohammed's death in the 8th century the entire middle east has been at war back and forth (mostly between the ottoman turks or egyptians in the west and the persians in the east) until multiple fractured states were formed in the 19th-20th centuries and the people were then controlled by dicatatorial states (Iraq, Iran, SA, UAE, Kuwait). Dictatorial states are not ones we, a democratic state, are fond of, but the area was secure, oil was a flowing...so everything was OK. The growth of the islamo-faschist movement and groups like Al Queda have now disturbed that uncomfortable balance by attacking others. As far as middle east being all dictatorships or forced monarchies...I don't want to offend any turks out there...Turkey is a democratic state but most middle easterners don't consider turkey part of the real middle east. (Turkey is now joined by Afghanistan and Iraq as democratic middle eastern countries thanks to our Pres and congress and dept of state and of course our military).

    MARTYRDOM: Zarqawi is only a martyr to the thugs who are already commited to his cause. There's no farmers in Iraq trying to make a living for his family and get along with his neighbors that are upset about a foreign jordanian terrorists death. That farmer is not going to drop his rake, leave his flock and family, and go commit jihad now. The only people pissed off about Zarqawi's death are terrorists and the poor, young, males 14-24 who are being brainwashed into terrorists in the madrassas in saudi, yemen, and pakistan. Well it appears as if some of the democrats in congress are pissed off about his death too..but lets not get into US politics...but if Murtha, Reid, Dean, and Clinton want to go join a madrassa in Peshawar...I'll buy their ticket...

    OUR MILITARY - AND THE MEDIA's PERVERSION OF OUR WORLD: Our enlistment rates in the US are down because young men and women and their parents are fed a negative, anti-bush, cowardly view of world events that is controlled by the traditional liberal media. On the other hand, "re-enlistment rates" are sky high because our young men and women who go over there, meet the real iraqi people, and talk to them and work and fight in their communities along side iraqi army and policemen...they understand what is at stake and they know we are doing a good thing. Why would someone who is up front, in the face of a bad situation volunteer to come back and do it again? It's a shame that the media gives a spotlight to the handful of people who desert or refuse to deploy but the thousands who reenlist and are committed to going back over there and killing more Zarqawi's and helping the Iraqi people become free and stable...those soldiers..and those enlistment rates...get no mention on the news.

    Class is over - Jack-Man...OUT!
    can't get anymore straightforward then that. its just to bad that our troops have to die for the oil, and that we dont have more backup in iraq. what is it now, 3000US soldiers killed and lord knows how many injured/maimed?

    by the way, has anyone noticed that N. Korea and Iran have basically given us a big F-U since we started the iraq/afganistan conflicts? yet we are doing next to nothing about it, because we have so many of our resources spread thin.

    the only thing jack-man that i do not agree with is your views that the media is liberal.

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    jack, that was a well thought out post.
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    Gracias Scott - every once in a while my thoughts actually make sense on some level.

    As for AmericanIMG and the liberal media - we all are entitled to our opinions and I have no authority to tell you that yours is wrong and mine is right.

    I will say that in between my tours in Afghanistan and Iraq I taught Army ROTC at a public university for 3 years and I previously took a "journalism and the military" class I took I have some experience on the subject. If you go into any public university and walk into a journalism/communications/social science/political science classrooms you will find rooms full of young democrats (being taught by 60's flower children peacenick democrats) who want to grow up and be reporters so they can be in the public spotlight as a beacon of truth for the american people keeping the evil, rich republicans running the government in check.

    But what really drives the media is $$$. It's not about liberal vs conservative as much as the media model is based upon sensationalism driven by good ol' American Capitalism. The #1 concept taught in Journalism 101 is the addage "If it bleeds, it leads" Why is that? Think about it...The print, TV, radio media are all for-profit enterprises which survive by making money...selling high $$$ commercials between news segments. How do they do that? By capturing and keeping your attention by displaying a stream of high-emotion content which uses the high-stress emotions of fear and anger to keep you tuned in and keep you watching commercials. The more people there are glued to the TV sets watching CNN - the more CNN can charge GEICO for their little british Gecko commercials.

    So the news networks don't really provide a sound basis of fact and truth about the events which affect our world (That's what the average american "Thinks" the news channels and newspapers and magazines do for him)...instead they provide a highly emotional, crisis-laden portrayal of life in our world....that crisis that you see on your TV when you tune in after work makes your troubles and tasks at home seem small...so you stay glued to the TV watching about "CRISIS IN IRAQ" or whatever. You ignore the 10 other things in your life that you need to do and fulfill your civic duty as a citizen of our country and the world by staying on that couch, glued to the TV, and watching...commercials.

    Think about it...do you know about every Teacher-Sex scandal that has happened in the past 5 years??? yeah..you do...But who was this years National Elementary, Middle School, and Secondary School Teacher's of the year? What about those teachers for your state? Never heard of them have you...thats because although those stories are important, they are good news stories and good news triggers non-crisis emotions such as happiness, calm, joy...that makes you think the world is OK and you are free to tend to your own crisis at home...mow the lawn, pay the bills, apply to med school, whatever...the media doesn't get to charge more $$$ for their next slot of commercials if you and I dropped the clicker and aren't watching the news and we're out taking care of our business instead.

    So the media is very sensational...very entertainment oriented...and whether you say the media is liberal or conservative or both - they all play the same game. Look at Fox news - they are supposedly the conservative news channel - well they are the best at cranking out the high-emotion themed music and backgrounds and running that type of content. Missing girls, raped girls, murdered girls...all hot little women right...they run those stories to death...any crisis..hurricane is a coming....floods are going to bust a dam....its all designed to keep you and I in an emotional fever pitch, locked onto their news channel so they can make more $$$ from their commercial spots.

    Look at NPR - the only major non-profit news outlet. My solution: Make all the news channels run off a non-profit model similar to how NPR survives. Remove the impetus for CEO's trying to make millions in salary and trying to keep their corporate stock price in line with wall street expectations - you would not see programming content so slanted towards crisis on a daily basis - you would see a drastically different FOX, CNN, ABC, MSNBC news lineup.

    OK - sorry for the essay...and sorry - I didn't mean to upset any liberal viewpoints...well I am not really that sorry....

    Jack-Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott1981
    jack, that was a well thought out post.

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    what really drives the media is $$$

    True - it is all about the stockholders. Well said and written.
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    It seems that referring to the most recent posts by 'The Jack-man' makes more sense than filling a page quoting it. Well, I have to agree with pretty much everything you've said. Everyone knows oil was the driving factor in Iraq, as the US already has major backing in Saudi Arabia. Massive reconstruction contracts help too.

    After spending a lot of time in the US, it always struck me at how ridiculous most news reports are on the TV there. Out of a 30 minute program, take out about 10 minutes for adverts which leaves 19 minutes for scare-mongering news reports about nothing but murders, rapes and terrorism and 1 minute to report on 'less-important' world issues. There seems to be a complete lack of international perspective in these news reports which, in my opinion, results in a large amount of ignorance in the public. As a soldier, I wonder whether 'The Jack-man' would appreciate less time half-heartedly reciting the names of soldiers killed today on the news, and more time explaining why the army is really there, why there is such a deep resentment of their presence by a section of the population and why their sacrifice is working towards creating a more stable environment in the region. Frankly, instability in the middle east means nobody prospers.

    And finally, a personal favour.... Everytime a brown guy shows up on the screen, stop flashing the damn 'Terrorist' captions. Not every brown person is a muslim, let alone one that wants to go Jihadding in the summer
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