clinicals
by wmg (Login wmg)

Hello All. Can anyone tell me what US hospitals Flinders has "formal" arrangements with, if any? Do you have to set up your own, make calls, etc, or is there a placement service at Flinders to facilitate the process? I know UNM, Hawaii, Harvard, Penn, have been mentioned. I would love to return to New Orleans, does anyone have info on clinicals at either Tulane or LSU? Thanks.

Posted on May 8, 2001, 1:31 PM
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Clinicals
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

Hi wmg...

In addition to those you've mentioned Flinders has formal agreements with Columbia Presby, Case Western, Yale and the UCs. There may be more as I'm a bit out of the loop on this one.

As far as I know there has been nothing formal with school in the NO area; however, one of my classmates did most (if not all) of his rotations there (he's from NO). While there are schools with which Flinders has a formal agreement, you are still required to apply and there are some restrictions (ie, I think Columbia will only take 2 a year, so there may be a lottery if it is a popular rotation).

You are by NO means restricted to schools with an agreement and you may find much more available to you by simply setting them up yourselves. There are schools which have a no IMG policy - sometimes this can be broken/bent and sometimes not. If you are deadset on going to a school with such a policy, if may help to contact a faculty member directly and ask for sponsorship - the school may allow the rotation or you may be able to simply set it up with the department directly (this is how students have rotated at UCSF which has a "no IMG" policy). Other schools may require a faculty sponsor which can be as easy as simply asking (usually via email) the faculty member offering the elective you are interested in - this is what I did at Hopkins and UVA. Schools in NY will require that you have an Approval Letter from the State of NY, which requires a Step 1 score and an appliation fee (about $30 as I recall).

Most schools list their policies and elective offerings on-line, usually under Visiting Electives, 4th year Curriculum or Student Affairs Office. If there are specific schools you are interested in, it doesn't hurt to inquire ahead of time as to their policies - and don't be suprised if some will refuse to allow you to do electives, OTOH don't be suprised to find that school that "don't allow IMGs" will allow an Australian student come. We have an especially strong reputation at UCSF from what others have told me and this reputation is also evident at other schools and may get you in the door (usually with a faculty member, not an office clerk).

As with all rotations, clinicals abroad during your 4th year require that you be in good academic standing and are deemed to be a worthy representative of Flinders (that said, I haven't heard of anyone refused on those grounds, although I might add that some SHOULD have been). Hope this helps and let me know if you have any further questions.

Best of luck to you and all others who've applied for EDP and regular admission this year!

Posted on May 19, 2001, 10:27 PM
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Setting Up Rotations
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

I just wanted to add something.

Everyone seems to get freaked out about setting up 4th year electives in the US. It is REALLY NOT a big deal. I did all of mine via email and regular mail.

Most are a simple application, 1 page requesting what, when and where. Some require an application fee but most that I applied to did not. I had an application package made up which included a cover letter from Dr. Teubner (she has the form letters on file) approving the elective, stating I was in good standing, etc.; letter of Malpractice Insurance, proof of health insurance (your Australian insurance will NOT cover you in the US, you will need to buy an additional policy to cover you during clinicals abroad) and my transcripts. It was an easy process to send these with the application to the school in question. Most will require some sort of statement that you are in good standing, whether or not you will be paying tuition at Flinders while away (you will be), whether or not you have Malpractice and Health Insurance, etc. The Course Administration Unit will sign off on these for you.

I was not refused for any elective I applied for and the only problem I had was with Baylor who didn't tell me that my Health Insurance was not acceptable until I arrived (they required a $500 or less deductible; I had $1,000) so made me buy their policy. Most schools will tell you that they can't tell you whether or not you can have the rotation until their students enroll (and this might not give you enough notice time), however, unless you are picking an extremely popular elective without much warning this might not be a problem (ie, I did have one classmate refused an elective but she was trying to get it about 2 weeks before it started.).

Others may have had other troubles but I really didn't have too much trouble with the entire process. I'm sure its easier to do rotations at places that Flinders has formal agreements with; but since its fairly painless to do them almost anywhere you want that seemed the most logical road for me (I had specific places I wanted to go, none of which had formal agreements with Flinders except the UCs).

BTW, I hadn't heard of an agreement with Hawaii but that may be new.

Posted on May 19, 2001, 10:38 PM
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Admission to Flinders
by Amber (Login tree_sap)

I am an American and have applied for admission to Flinders University. I am curious if anyone knows how many international applicants there are for the 30 available positions each year? How about the interview? I read some general info on the SOM website and on this board, but if anyone has interviewed this year or last year I would be very interested in your input.

Thank you very much, this forum has been very useful so far!


Posted on May 3, 2001, 1:14 PM
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Applications
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

Hi Amber...

In the past I believe there have been nearly 23-25 applicants per spot; this was with a quota of 23 international students. If the quota is now 30, it has been raised recently.

Typically Flinders interviews 3-4 people per position; usually around 100 people or so. Thus your chances are pretty good once you get to the interview stage. They also maintain a waiting list which does tend to move nearer to January as students get into US schools or decide to go elsewhere.

Hope this helps and best of luck to you.

Posted on May 4, 2001, 11:26 AM
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thank you!
by Amber (Login tree_sap)

Kimberli- Thank you for the information regarding numbers of international applicants. The SOM website says there is space for 58 domestic and 30 international students each year. While increasing the number of foreign students accepted is good news for me, I hope it doesn't change the focus of the program. I like that it is designed for Australian students with emphasis on clinical skills, not solely for American students trying to pass the USMLE. I don't think any student wants to go to a school that has become a "degree factory" or whose reputation changes after your graduation.
Anyway, thank you for all your input on this site. I am the first from my university (and maybe my state) to apply to Flinders and there is very little information published so far. It feels a little risky to apply to such a new program, but your success (as well as other students) is encouraging. Thanks for all the time and energy you spend answering questions!

Here is one more question to current students and grads...

If you could do it all over again, would you?

Posted on May 4, 2001, 2:42 PM
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Flinders is not very risky
by DrB (Login ********)

Going to Flinders is much less risky than going to other foreign schools (e.g. Caribbean). Unlike the Caribbean schools, Flinders is an established university and has relationships with top schools in the US. If you are going off shore, I don't think you can do much better than Flinders.

Posted on May 4, 2001, 5:16 PM
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Degree Factory
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

While they may be accepting more International students now and there will be *some* pandering to the dollars that we bring in (ie, if they don't make us happy, applications may drop), Flinders also has a proudly Australian streak. The have long enjoyed an excellent reputation both nationally and internationally and I think would be rather sensitive to charges of being a Degree Factory or teaching to the USMLE, as well as the majority of students there being Australian.

I have no fear that they will begin to change the curriculum to serve the needs of the Americans over the other students. If anything, they have done the reverse - they used to offer review lectures for students studying for Step 1; since most of the faculty are opposed to the idea of Step 1 (ie. using a basic science test as a measure of "good doctoring") and most of the students agreed that the usefulness of these lectures left something to be desired, they dropped them.

Please be assured that although Flinders might be accepting more International students (which is really a shame in my book; and I rather feel the Aussie's as well) they have no intention of changing the focus of their curriculum or to become a shill for the USMLE, as far as I know.

Would I do it again? That's hard to say - I can say "alls well that ends well" but I will admit that I think I would have benefitted from a more traditional didactic program. I loved the experience, the people and feel that my clinical skills are on par or superior to those of my US colleagues, but my fund of basic science knowledge is below par. Had I known that I would switch from a primary care focus to surgery I might have made a different choice. Will it make a difference come July 1 when I start residency? We'll see? But, for the most part, I do not regret my decision and would do it again.

Posted on May 4, 2001, 8:39 PM
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Untitled
by jc (Login Montanna)

In my humble opinion, a school that is trying its best to educate their students well will attract more students from all around the world than schools that are only trying to make more money thus to attract more students by trying to "please" students. In other words, a physician doing his/her best to take a good care of patients will also attract more patients, and thus more money(?). People should NOT go after money but be true to themselves. Money is a part of the "reward" for hard work, not something to be of anyone's goal of life. A man's life is worth more than money. Anyway, I just wanted to share that... Amber, I wish you the best and please tell us if you do get accepted. I will be excited to know a future classmate before I start my first year this comming March at Flinders SOM. Flinders, Melborne, and Sydney medical schools are the three Australian universities you can count on. I am choosing Flinders because it is a well established university, it seems to have a good program, and because it has a SMALL class. Melborne and Sydney have about 200 students or more!! I think Flinders has less than 100 students per class.
All the best, Amber.

JC

Posted on May 6, 2001, 5:35 PM
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question
by wmg (Login wmg)

I understood that the earliest applicants date would be notified of acceptance for the Feb/2002 starting class was May 21, after the EDP interveiws. When were you notified? Congratulations!

Posted on May 7, 2001, 6:24 AM
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save it for later....
by jc (Login Montanna)

Hi wmg.
(it sounds like img, fmg.... just kidding.)
Anyway, I am sorry if I have left you with a wrong idea that I have already been accepted. I was merely implying that I am sure I will be accepted... sort of being very optimistic. Anyway, I don't think my mark is not good enough to apply for EDP, so I will have to wait for the next round. sorry I can't write any longer, since it is still exam period for me. I better go and study, so that I can get the degree before applying. Later, and all the best to you WMG. Do post your message if you do get accepted.

jc

Posted on May 8, 2001, 4:14 AM
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Don't Worry
by Greg (Login gregw)

Hi Amber,

This post is a little late; my apologies for that!

Anyways, I am a Canadian student, and had my interview through the EDP at the beginning of May. I find out whether I got in or not on the 21st.....YIKES! I have to say that the interview was very low-key, and non-threatening. I actually enjoyed myself, if you can believe it. The interviewer was extremely nice, outgoing, and seemed to be genuinely interested in WHO I AM AS A PERSON. The interviewer did not try and stress me out, or intimidate me. There were no questions like "If you were the health minister of a small Ethiopian village, what would you do?" We simply talked for about an hour, just two people getting to know each other. The interviewer just wants to make sure that you are somewhat interesting, not a psycho, and are able to integrate into Australian life. Moving halfway around the world, and not knowing whether coming back to North America will ever happen, is a huge commitment, and kinda scary. The Admissions Committee does not want to pick people that are freaked out about the whole ordeal, and get homesick half a year in. That is not beneficial for either party. All that being said, I may not even get in, but I hope for the best. Maybe each interview is different, I don't know. Well, if you want to hear more of my thoughts, feel free to contact me (since this is my first time, I don't know how replies work), or, if my email is'nt available on this reply, just reply to this one. I will check back periodically.

Thanks,

Greg

Posted on May 13, 2001, 11:05 PM
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post-interveiw for EDP
by wmg (Login wmg)

Hi All. Well I had my interveiw in LA Saturday with Dr. Teubner. It was very low key and enjoyable like others who have posted on the experience. It is hard to get a sense of liklihood of EDP acceptance. I mean, I am sure that it depends on how many applicants there are and what the numbers look like. Anyway, I hope everyone gets good news! Waiting anxiously till 5/21...Thanks again to Kim Cox who gave lots of good advice and yes, I told Jillian hello for you.

Posted on May 14, 2001, 2:20 PM
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Accepting transfer students into US clinical rotations
by St James School of Medicine (Login stjamesmed)

Visit www.stjamesmed.com or email: stjamesmed@usa.net

$3500. per sem... US clinical rotations (6 sem)

& basic sci. (4 sem)in Bonaire, Netherlands Antilles

Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 9:56 AM
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question for oztexan
by wmg (Login wmg)

Hello. I hope all is well with your second year. Can you tell me what the elective classwork is like - anatomy/biochem, anything like that. Is it an elective or required for all students? Also, when do you intend to take USMLE Step 1? Any other insight not already provided by Kim Cox, Dr Teubner, or yourself would be greatly appreciated.

Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 8:02 AM
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More information on Flinders?
by polarcap (Login polarcap)


Can anyone here provide me with more info on Flinders please. I am wanting to apply to an Australian school because I believe it is the best option outside of the USA. I don't want to be labelled from studying in the Carribean. People have told me that Flinders is better than other schools in Australia? How do I decide which one to apply to? Does anyone have any good information on Flinders? Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks.

Posted on Mar 29, 2001, 6:25 PM
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The Best
by OzTexan (Login OzTexan)

Flinders is the best in Oz...with the exchange rate, it is a bargain right now!! What do you want to know that is not already posted?

ME
MS-2 Flinders U. SOM



Posted on Mar 30, 2001, 4:29 AM
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Flinders Info
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

Count me in too - if there is any additional information you would like besides what's written below, please feel free to contact me.

I just graduated from Flinders and will be starting a Categorical Gen Surg position at Penn State in July.

Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 8:32 PM
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Wow!
by jj (Login Montanna)

Hi Kimberly,

wow, I guess that a great residency spot?!!
I congratulate you on your success. Does this mean you will also be able to help others from Flinders to get good residency position? Most Flinders graduates seem to end up in the Penn State.? Is it true? Anyway, I was also interested in doing General Surgery for my residency. Again, congratulations on your success, Kim. All the best in your career.!

jj

Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 10:39 PM
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whats is categorical general surgery
by pinoymax (Login pinoymax)

whats the difference between categorical gen sx and plain old gen sx. just wondering, cos categorical kindda sounds intersting.

Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 1:18 AM
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Categorical
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

Well, Categorical simply refers to the training track, its no different from General Surgery.

General Surgery, like many other specialties has two tracks: Preliminary and Categorical

Preliminary is a 1 to 2 year track which prepares you for other residencies which may require 1-2 years "Preliminary" Medicine or Surgery; ie, Anesth, EM, Rad Onc, etc. In addition, you will find some who will take a Preliminary spot in hopes of being able to get into the Categorical track the following year (after proving themselves). This would generally require that one do an extra year of residency, unless a spot opens up in the Categorical track because someone has transferred programs/died/dropped out, etc.

Categorical is the full on, 5 year+ (in surgery) track. It is designed for people who wish to complete a full surgical residency.

It is important to know the difference between the two tracks. Make sure that when considering a school, especially a foreign school, and they state that some of their grads have obtained surgery residencies in the US that these are CATEGORICAL surgical residencies. These are the hard ones to get. Lots of IMGs get Preliminary spots (as I said earlier, in hopes of getting a Categorical spot the following year - of which there is no guarantee) but not the Categorical ones. While you may be able to gain entry into the Categorical track from the Preliminary, this is not desirable. So check and make sure those matches are into Categorical spots.

Hope this helps.

Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 6:23 PM
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Residency
by Kimberli Cox (Login kimberlicox)

Thanks, I'm pretty excited - especially to be at an academic university surgery program and my number 1 choice.

I wouldn't say "most" Flinders grads end up at Penn State but 3 of us have. Interestingly enough, its in 3 different departments and at least the surgery department there told me they knew nothing about any other Flinders grads there (when I had asked if they knew the IM resident there and though to give another Flinders grad a chance).

As for helping other Flinders grads get a spot there, I'm not sure as a PGY1 I will wield that kind of power - LOL! But I would certainly be willing to vouch for the school and the education received if not for the person.

Your best calling card will be your USMLE scores, class rank at Flinders, letters and clerkships, especially US ones with letters from US faculty. In addition, in my case I was told that my extensive research experience helped (as it is a highly academic program) as did my personal statement (several people said it made them want to meet me).

Please feel free to email me should you have any questions, etc.

Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 6:17 PM
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To Kimberly
by Anonymous (Login Montanna)

Hi Kimberly, I congratulate you again on your success. Is it easy for Flinders graduates to get such competitive spot if their scores are good? (i.e. do US hospitals highly regard Flinders?) I think they do...?? Because Flinders is unlike those Carribean medical schools and require higher standards to get into Flinders.. Right? As a Canadian, I do want to come back to Canada, but it seems to me that doing residency in Canada is almost impossible. So, I was thinking of finishing up everything in Australia (meaning I may have to apply for permanent residence visa) and may be, because I may want to stay in Australia, head back to Canada. Is it possible? How about if I do all my residency in US? What are my chances? As for the personal statement you were referring to, what did you write about? I always have some trouble writing an impressive one. Thank you for your help, Kimberly.
All the best to you,

JC

Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 8:52 PM
from IP address 206.47.244.60