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    Network54 Main Forum Page 18


    To satisfy your curiosity...
    by ***** Collman (no login)

    Hello Curious Jenn.

    My impetus for posting the query about foreign medical schools has everything to do with my desire to obtain as much info as possible about the possibility of a true 'DPM/MD' degree.

    I am doing this both for my own knowledge and to provide the students at CCPM, as well as all other interested prospective Podiatry students, current students, residents, and DPMs, with an informed perspective as an alternative to what the Administration may tell us in an upcoming meeting in June.

    Personally, based on what I know so far and based on conversations with others, to say nothing of history, I don't think the dual degree will fly.

    As for my own interests, the idea is intriguing, but I decided to enroll in Podiatry school to become a Podiatrist, not to become a Medical Doctor who practices podiatry. I'm not interested in spending 7 or 8 years of my life training to become a Podiatrist, only to go on to another 3 years of residency in Internal Medicine, for example. Back when I considered medical profession of choice, be it MD, DO, DDS, DPM, whatever, I was interested in medicine but impartial to what I would eventually practice. I spent time with some Podiatrists, did some research into the field, and got hooked on the balance it offers between clinical medicine, conservative care, and surgery. I chose to pursue a DPM education instead of the other medical degrees, and there isn't a day that goes by that I wish it was otherwise.

    Public perception is a curse, to be sure. But people are learning more about what Podiatrists do and how students are trained. We learn a great deal about medicine at CCPM. In fact, much of our curriculum is quite similar to that of many medical schools. Some of our basic science courses are nearly identical to those taught at UCSF Medical School, some are actually taught by the same professors. We receive an excellent basic medical science education, and our clinical training begins during our 2nd year and continues through our 4th and on into Residency.

    Those who are interested in the DPM/MD idea may have concerns about issues of respect, scope of practice, co-admission of patients, so on and so forth. The bottom line, as I see it, is that you have to enjoy what you do and be as good as you can, for your patients and for the medical profession as a whole. I know far more happy Podiatrists than I do unhappy ones, and I could say the same about the MD's that I know. It's because they enjoy it and they're good at it.

    Anyway, this isn't the forum for discussing the merits of Podiatry. Seems like our kind is sent to the bottom of the pile on this site anyway. I hope people take the time to learn more about the profession and are willing to work with Doctors of Podiatric Medicine for the total care of their patient. Well-trained DPMs know more about the foot and ankle than any other medical professional, and those who are surgically trained, and good at what they do, are the equals of the best foot and ankle Orthopods. I'm sure some people will find that statement offensive. But really, it comes down to walking two different paths to the nearly the same end point. And a lot of hard work along the way in either discipline.

    Thanks for pointing me in the direction of Pat Parks. Your help is appreciated.


    ***** Collman
    Class of 2002
    California College of Podiatric Medicine

    Posted on Jun 8, 2000, 11:13 PM
    from IP address

    Another question, if you don't mind
    by CuriousJenn (no login)

    In your post you said that not a day goes by without you wishing you had chosen another profession. I am curious why you are going to stick with podiatry if you feel this way. If you are fearful of the foreign route to MD I suggest you read up on this forum and also contact the big 3 schools....AUC, St. George's, and ROSS. Don't listen to the pod's out there who speak negatively about foreign MD programs. They often know nothing about them and are just trying to "save face" for their profession.
    You are right to stay away from CCPM's program.

    Posted on Jun 9, 2000, 6:42 AM
    from IP address

    Read more carefully...
    by ***** Collman (no login)

    Hello again Curious Jenn.

    Please go back and re-read my message. Given the flavor of my post, why do you think I am interested in pursuing an MD? In fact, I said that I enjoy the DPM program and there isn't a day that goes by where I wish it was otherwise. To translate: I am happy to stick with the DPM track and do not wish to pursue anything else.

    But thanks again for your input. I already have an understanding of the 'big 3' foreign schools and will be sure to pass on such info to interested students I speak with.

    Dave Collman

    from jock to doc
    by lou (no login)

    [ Send this story to a friend | Easy-print version | Add to Daily User ]
    From jock to doc

    Ex-NFL lineman gets Harvard medical degree

    By Anne Barnard, Globe Staff, 6/15/2000

    sk your average Super Bowl veteran to describe the worst injury of his football career, and chances are, he won't answer quite the way Mark ARichardes did the other day:

    ''I tore my medial collateral, my anterior cruciate and my posterior cruciate.'' That met with puzzled silence, so ARichardes elaborated.

    ''There are four main ligaments to your knee: the medial and lateral collaterals outside, and two in the middle that criscross, the cruciates,'' he said. ''If they pop, your femur - the bone in your thigh - can actually slide forward over your tibia, the shin bone.''

    ARichardes, a former offensive lineman for the National Football League's Washington Redskins, graduated from Harvard Medical School last Thursday. This summer, seven years after retiring from the NFL, he will begin an orthopedic surgery residency at the prestigious Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., treating injuries like the ones he suffered on the field.

    At 6 feet 5 inches and 350 pounds, the 39-year-old ARichardes still looks every bit the lineman. But in a commencement speech that drew raucous cheers, he thanked his professors, his 167 classmates, and his wife Jackie for transforming him ''from a jock to a doc.''

    For much of his life, he said in the speech, his brain had served mainly as ''ballast for a football helmet.'' Now, he raves about his diverse classmates, his pulmonology professor, and the awe he felt when he plunged his hand into the chest of a man in cardiac arrest and massaged his heart.

    ''I hated school,'' he said in an interview. His father, a Lutheran chaplain for the Army, moved the family from New York, to Berlin and Munich, Germany, and, finally, to Texas. ARichardes said he studied ''just enough to stay out of trouble with my parents - sometimes not even.''

    At Baylor University in Houston, he paid more attention to his football scholarship than his business major, a strategy that paid off financially, if not intellectually. In 1983, he was drafted into the now-defunct United States Football League to play for the LA Express.

    His first crushing knee injury occurred in his second pro game. Playing left offensive tackle, he was busy blocking a Birmingham Stallions' defensive end when his own teammate tried to block a blitzing linebacker.

    ''Both of those guys fell into my knee,'' he said. ''It bent all the way backwards.''

    That was when he stopped thinking that guys who writhed in agony on the field were ''just being wimps.'' He also gained a deep respect for his doctors and physical therapists. A seed was planted. But ARichardes was still focused on football.

    When the USFL went bust, he went to the Kansas City Chiefs as a first-round draft pick. Five years later, he joined Washington, just in time for its 1992 Super Bowl victory.

    ARichardes likes to say that graduating from Harvard was a bigger thrill than winning the Super Bowl. But, ever modest, he admits that's partly because by 1992 he was a second-string player. It was time to think about a new career.

    Three people inspired him to consider medicine: Roy Smythe, a Baylor teammate who quit football and became a doctor; Pat Egoscue, a physical therapist who eased his back troubles; and ARichardes' wife, Jackie, whom he met through Redskins quarterback Mark Rypien.

    Initially, ARichardes was planning to become a physical therapist. But Jackie asked him, ''Why work for a doctor when you can be a doctor?''

    He took two years of pre-med classes at George Mason University in Virginia and got the best grades of his life. He scored in the 99th percentile on the MCAT, the standardized test for medical applicants. Still, the University of Minnesota rejected him because of his sketchy college grades.

    So the acceptance letter from Harvard came as a shock. He was terrified they'd made a mistake.

    When he arrived, ARichardes remembered how intimidated he felt when he first met his college teammates: bigger, stronger, bruising All-Americans. Now, his nemesis was petite Neda Ratanawongsa, a classmate who started medical school at age 19. Not only did she seem to remember everything, she came up with complex answers while he was still puzzling over the questions. He says he thought, ''If this is how smart everybody is, I'm in the wrong place.''

    But he found his stride, enjoying the problem-solving of Harvard's New Pathway curriculum, which asks students to budget their time and help teach each other.

    Once, in the emergency room, he was even recognized as a celebrity by a Redskins fan whose bashed leg he was assigned to fix. For Thursday's commencement, he donned a cap and the largest black gown Harvard could find. He brought his three children - Sophia, 6, Micah, 4, and *******la, 2 - on stage with him. They got teddy bears; he got a diploma that read, in Latin, Universitas Harvardiana.

    ARichardes hopes to work with children, but also play a special role, as a doctor who understands professional athletes. He knows their constant fear of a sudden career-ending injury. And he has felt their pain. Literally.

    ''Different surgeons have different skill levels,'' he said. ''I don't know where I'll rank, compared to some of the guys I saw operate. But a lot of diagnosing is just being able to talk to someone and know what happened. And from that perspective I think I have a leg up.''

    This story ran on page B1 of the Boston Globe on 6/15/2000.
    Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.

    Posted on Jun 15, 2000, 1:53 PM
    from IP address

    by Anonymous (no login)

    Even if he did score in the 99th percentile (doubtful), he never would have gotten into Harvard if it wasn't for his "celebrity." Most of us who did screw up in college the first time around, and then did great, end up getting the shaft, and thats why alot of people end up in the Caribbean.

    Posted on Jun 15, 2000, 3:15 PM
    from IP address

    by Playing my violin (no login)

    Oh boo hoo.
    Life is so unfair !
    If only I could have won a superbowl ring, I would be at harvard instead of the Harvard of the caribbean.

    Get over it. Your patients don't give a pooh pooh as long as YOU are a good doctor. FOrget about this guy.IF that guy was able to parlay his talent into a Harvard MD, more power to him.
    It's better than some C+ student getting in to Harvard because they are 1/16 Cherokee indian or some other lame reason (uncle is on admissions board )
    I thought it was a good story.
    Now back to my violin

    Posted on Jun 15, 2000, 3:36 PM
    from IP address

    About Michael Crichton, ER Producer
    by Anonymous (Login makello)
    Forum Moderator

    Ironically, the producer of ER Mike Crichton, also producer of many movies as Jurassic Park, is a Harvard graduate physician himself. But the real ironic part is that while he was a clinical student, one of his attendings was a Harvard cardiologist named H.C. (I will conceal his name for privacy). Dr. H.C. is portrayed on Mark Green's character. If you meet Dr. H.C. personally, you'll understand how much a good actor Anthony Edwards is! They also look alike a lot, I mean when Dr. H.C. as younger. But here goes the ironic part! Dr. H.C. is currently Dean at a Caribbean Medical School! He has been Dean of Spartan Health Sciences University for the past decade! So, it is ironic that they are portraying this St. George's student as inferior when the producer and writer himself was taught by a physician who currently teaches caribbean med-students. I mean, the principal character of ER, Dr. Mark Green, is based on this current caribbean professor!
    I thought this could interest you.

    Posted on Dec 19, 2000, 4:37 AM
    from IP address

    Did H.C. graduate from a Caribbean school?
    by Anonymous (Login KathyS1971)

    Did H.C. graduate from a Caribbean school, too? Thanks in advance.

    Posted on Dec 20, 2000, 4:59 PM
    from IP address

    of course he did
    by zeitgeist (Login zeitgeist)

    To be a head of a department at Harvard, it is a requirement to be a Caribbean grad.

    Caribbean medical schools originated in the late 1970s, Crichton graduated in the mid 1970s, so it would be for one of his professors to be an offshore grad.

    Seriously, are you really stupid enough to believe a Carib grad could be a department head at Harvard?

    Posted on Dec 20, 2000, 6:00 PM
    from IP address

    I believe that H.C. taught in Boston and graduated from Harvard.
    by Anonymous (Login djeff)

    I you think publicity is bad from the Grenada-Caribbean doc stereotype, imagine what it will be like if people ever get wind of the history of Ross University and all the scandals at that school.

    Posted on Dec 20, 2000, 6:58 PM
    from IP address

    by Anonymous (Login pionexman)
    Forum Moderator

    There was a t.v. show starring Howie Mandrel a good comid. based on boston city hospital. It had a main character who attended school in Mexico, however, something happened that his education was investigated for some reason and he had to retake more exams. Also there was a show based in Jamaica about a caribbean school. It was based after Ross. The people that did northern exposure produced this show. I cant rember the name. The head of the school was a little strange. Also if you want to see a funny movie about americans studying abroad rent "Bad Medicine". Its based on Mexican and dominican republic schools but could apply to all the schools. A lot of it was right on the mark with my exp. in the dominican republic. It also makes you appreciate the education at St. Georges,AUC and SABA.

    Posted on Dec 27, 2000, 4:38 PM
    from IP address

    by WDC (Login WDC)
    Forum Moderator

    " Going to extremes"
    What a crappy show. It's very brief lifetime coincided with my fi
    rst semester on Montserrat.
    One of the guys in the dorm had his room wired for cable, and we would hang out there and watch it ( well, at least the first 2 or 3 shows )
    It was awful.

    ER began while I was in England. What a great show that started out as, with specific reference to Carter as a 3rd year med student. They got it right for a few years.
    Now there are no good medical shows on television.

    I hate it that all the residents smoke cigarettes. That is so false, and it sends such a bad message to kids who say, hey all those good looking doctors smoke, I guess I can too.

    OK, enough soap box !!!

    Posted on Dec 27, 2000, 5:34 PM
    from IP address

    by Faith (Login aucmd)

    Have you seen Gideon's Crossing?
    So technically inaccurate, I can't stand to watch it! Although they do touch on some interesting psychosocial aspects of residency, it's totally annoying when there are so many medical consultants available.

    ER has been the best, in my opinion, as far as trying to be medically accurate. There was one show, however, that all the roommates and I were enjoying during 5th semester - I think it was a female who had a broken bone while playing softball, and was being treated by Green. He stated which bone was broken, either in the hand or foot (can't remember), and from what I recall substituted names of tarsal bones for carpals, or vise-versa.


    Posted on Dec 28, 2000, 6:23 AM
    from IP address

    by WDC (Login WDC)
    Forum Moderator

    Gideon's Crossing is just plain bizarre.
    The medicine is bogus, but some of the story lines have been OK, as far as many of the residents being complete emotional basket cases, and being totally incompetent and left without supervision. Brings back fond memories of internship !
    Still, the house staff on the show are lots dumber than in real life. Hey, give us some credit.
    Reality lies somewhere between brand new interns cracking chests and cross clamping aortas ( ER ) to not knowing what lasix is ( Gideon's Crossing ).
    I'm going back on service, so I guess I'll have to try and catch TV when I get a chance.

    Posted on Dec 28, 2000, 6:34 AM
    from IP address

    From Melbourne/Sydney, Australia
    by pat (Login patlabor)

    Thanks for the advice,

    I am 4th year medical student from the University of Melbourne. This neurosurgeon Dr. Andrew Kaye, happens to know Dr. Peter Black from Brigham % Woman, they wrote a book together called Operative Neurosurgery. Since I am currently doing research with Dr.Kaye's group, he adviced me to have some clinical experience with Dr.Black. I am not sure if I am going to come to the states for residency. I heard U.S. surgeons are malignant in personality. Is that true?


    by WDC (Login WDC)
    Forum Moderator

    Every doc I have met from oz has been excellent.
    Do you go for 5 years?
    Did you begin after high school ( or the US equivalent of high school....age 18 or 19 ? ) or did you take a college level degree before beginning. I'm just curious.

    I think you are in for a real treat. Boston is a fun city. Hopefully you'll be there at a time to head over to see a ballgame at Fenway.

    Since you have a connection with the physician, then you should have a better time of it.

    Are US surgeons a bit abrasive?
    Well, some are. I suppose it's the same all over.
    Generally, the further up the East coast you get the more abrasive people get. This is of course the opinion of a Texan, so my New York colleagues will take exception.

    Have you been to the United States before?

    Posted on Feb 4, 2001, 8:37 AM
    from IP address

    from Asia
    by pat (Login patlabor)

    NO I am 27 now I should have started when I was 18 or 19. Yes I have been to the states but not for business but PLEASURE. I have been to L.A., SF, and Vegas. Oh and Seattle. Love Seatle. I was gonna go the Uni of Washington, or Washington Univ?? That's what Dr. Kaye said, I don't remember, but I then I decided to go to Boston instead cuz I never went there before. Beside it's free cuz somehow faculty direct sponsor could override the 2300 dollars fees for one month rotation. Afterward if I am not exhausted, then I might be heading for cleveland clinic working with this neurosurgeon name Dr. Barrnet. Is he prominent in America? Dr. Kaye said he is. Is Cleveland Clinic a good hospital? I am not sure if I am gonna come to the states for residency, cuz I would have to take all those usmles, right? I thought about it once cuz I know one melbourne graduate here is working as a surgical resident in SFGeneral. Is that UCSF? I know it's UC something.


    Posted on Feb 4, 2001, 3:44 PM
    from IP address

    by NUT (Login MMcKinley)

    Since you're doing work with all of these neurosurgeons, is it a safe bet that you're pursuing that as your specialty after med school?

    Posted on Feb 4, 2001, 5:35 PM
    from IP address

    by WDC (Login WDC)
    Forum Moderator

    Looks like you are hitting all the top spots.
    You must be interested in doing neurosurgery, huh?


    Posted on Feb 4, 2001, 7:12 PM
    from IP address

    I am not sure
    by pat (Login patlabor)

    It all depends on whether I like it or not. So far I like the theories behind it. I only had observed a couple of operations by Dr. Kaye. He told me Australia is excellent in training neurosurgeons, especially in Western Australia. I have heard Carson Benjamin??is that right? (the big shot in America or so I have heard) was trained in Western Australia for ONE year after his residency at Johns Hopkins. Dr. Kaye had the honor to work with him for 3 operations during his stay at University of Western Australia. I asked Kaye to recommend me to him but he told me that you are not going to have much contact with him other than his residents cuz long time ago he did that and that student was welcomed at first but barely had a chance to talk to him. But anyway. If I like America AND American neurosurgery then I might try to apply. But before that, I will ask the opinions of the surgeons there at Boston to see if that's a feasible option for me. If it's too competitive then I will think about it.


    Posted on Feb 4, 2001, 8:10 PM
    from IP address

    by NUT (Login MMcKinley)

    That's really cool. It sounds like you're on the right track. I think you meant Ben Carson, the pediatric neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins. He is really terrific! I've seen many programs on TV with him performing different kinds of surgery. If you have the opportunity, try to work with him! It doesn't get much better than him! I know he may be difficult to access, but if you DO gain access, you'll be in for a treat. Good luck!

    Posted on Feb 5, 2001, 12:34 PM
    from IP address
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