What's your complaint?
by zocolo (Login zocolo)

Aside from the students and school administrations that monitor this forum, some state's medical boards also watch and sometimes participate (Look for posts from Pat Park, the Foreign Liason of the Medical Board of California). It's people like Ms. Park that you are really complaining to here. Granted not all the complaints are settled or taken seriously, but at least here you have a chance to make your case without the direct threat of being suspended or dismissed. For example, one school in the Netherland Antilles controls its forum so strictly that they censor every potential post on their official forum. If you complained directly, you would either administratively disappear or be blocked. That in itself tells you the potential effect of posting a complaint on forums such as this.

Posted on Jun 22, 2002, 4:57 AM
from IP address 64.175.108.75

Hopefully you'll get it
by George Durst, M.D. (Login teratos)

I think I remeber Pat Park saying that should the school get CA approval, it was possible that is would apply to people who had previously graduated from the school. Keep your finger crossed. Remember...the east coast ain't that bad :-) G

Posted on Jul 6, 2002, 5:01 PM
from IP address 68.33.175.220

Almost
by Travis (no login)

As long as the school is listed in the WHO directory (now the IMED Database), you take the entire course in Portuguese, and you do NOT do any clinical rotations in the United States, you will probably with be OK with all 50 states including CA. But to make sure you can contact Pat Park, she is the California State Medical Boards liaison for IMG's. Her email will be somewhere in some past posts.

Hope this helped.

Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 6:24 AM
from IP address 12.5.206.3

Re: Charles U and CA licensing LIES
by neil c (Login ncor33)
Forum Moderator

well, you are sadly mistaken.

first of all, the application was first sent to charles around march 2002. that is not 2 years. second, the application is 95 pages long, and quite a document. the school made the mistake of referencing notes and page numbers in school documents instead of transcribing the notes directly on the application. so, they have to do it over. it would have been nice had they got it right the first time, but such is life. the new application was sent around 1 week ago, and i hope it can be sent to cali before the end of the semester.

i personally believe charles will have no problems. that is because they DO EXACTLY mirror the czech language program. every class is the same. if you don't bleive me, get a school catalog. they will be happy to send you one. every class, same exact requirements, same professors, same rooms, same amount of hours, same test questions. in fact, after the 3rd year we are regularly in class and on the floors with the czech students. also, semmelwies in hungary was approved, and there is no large dissimilarity between us and them, as far as i know.

but, above all, don't take my word for it. call pat park at the board of medicine in california. we have been in contact for quite some time, and she is very helpful. i know she can't give any opinions on approval, but she can verify where in the process we are.

there is no guarantee of anything at this point, but there is no reason to assume that it will not be approved. if you can think of a reason, let me know.

of course charles has this program to raise funds. what medical school does not charge tuition??? what a ridiculous statement. having an english program is a great way to supplement the government funds for medical education. we get an education, the school gets more money and all the students benefit from more equipment. just like every medical school in the world!

neil

ps. notice how i limited my response to the questions/points you raised? i may disagree with you, but you do have a right to your opinion. i refute you with facts and referalls to other sources to verify my statements, i did not resort to petty personal attacks, and i completely left your school out of it. could be a good lesson for you...respond with evidence, not obsessive attacks, and above all respect the opinions of others.

CA will never approve Charles
by Anonymous (Login UTOPLIT)

What a fuking joke! Charles can't even fill out a goddamn application properly? Who typed it up? NeilC? Hazam? Bunch of fuking clowns, man. You see any legitimate schools "messing up" their application like a 10 year old. What next? Spill some coffee over it? Missing a couple of pages? Dog chewed it? A motherfuking joke!!!

The English program is not parallel to the actual Charles med school. The English program is a bad joke that the desperate school created to increase its cash flow.

Actually, I think its quite unfortunate and sad. Charles was once a good institution. But, even though its been more than a decade since Communism lost its grasp on Czech., its after-effects are still present on the country and its institutions. Because of the sorry state of the economy and its mostly destitute Czech citizens, Charles must PROSTITUTE itself and be at the mercy of foreigners like NeilC. I'm sure the founders of the school are spinning in their graves.

Do you see schools in Western Europe prostituting themselves like Charles and the med schools in Hungary and Poland? I don't see specially-created "English programs" at med schools in France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Spain or Italy. Obviously, they could use some more money too (as could any school), but they don't want to lower their standards and rely on reject Americans like NeilC for cashflow. These schools actually have some pride and, more importantly, are not reeling from the effects of Communism.

All of these English programs at Eastern European schools are a complete joke. First and foremost, ANYBODY can get in. They are not picky and if you have the cash or can get a loan, you're in. This is undisputed, even by NeilC. This is also why its difficult to understand why anyone going to one of the schools would boast and claim superiority. Anyone at a Caribbean school or St. Chris can go to an Eastern European med school if they decided to. In fact, they could easily transfer there now if they so chose. So, what's the big deal?

Its not really Charles' fault, but the school has turned into a big joke. A bad, big joke. Once maintaining high academic and ADMISSION standards, now its nothing more than a Eastern European whore. Catering to asssholes like NeilC.

Posted on Nov 7, 2002, 7:06 AM
from IP address 206.55.157.168

Re: CA will never approve Charles
by neil c (Login ncor33)
Forum Moderator

what about the irish schools opening up to americans? and the australian schools? the exact same thing, using a system that is in place, inceasing enrollment to other english speakers and charging for it....think those schools are jokes too? it is the exact same thing.

you just love to spout nothingness, literally sprinkled with profanity. shows exactly the level of inteligence that you possess, i am afraid.

neil

Posted on Nov 7, 2002, 7:32 AM
from IP address 62.24.64.12

A Simple Message to "PGY-2 Orthopedic Residency"
by Researching Guy (no login)

In response to one of your more recent posts. I'm not attacking anyone or anything, Mr. "PGY-2 Orthopedic Residency". I'm simply trying to find the truth. You say you have a "PGY-2 Orthopedic Residency". A number of us have found that you are using computer facilities in an area that is at least 80 miles away from where you claim to be doing your residency. It is apparently Escondido Union High School. It seems you are lying.

Your answer is that you are "on vacation" (BTW: 12 days at a time is a very generous vacation for a second year surgical resident) and you are using PC-Anywhere because your "mama didn't raise no fool" because you knew that we would trace your IP address. I'm curious. Why the paranoia unless you knew you were lying?

I know Loma Linda has affiliated hospitals in many places. You claim to be a "PGY-2 Orthopedic Surgery" at "Riverside". Loma Linda doesn't have any sort of affiliation that involves Orthopedic Residents at any Riverside Hospital in California. Western has an affiliation, but you aren't a DO, right? There IS another California school which does have an affiliation. Can you tell me which? In addition to the "35 hospitals and not all are in the US" you mention, Loma Linda also has a separate, affiliated Medical School in another country (can you tell me where it's at?).

My point in wasting this time in conveying a message to you is that I am trying hard to avoid having an obviously disturbed person like yourself post so much hateful crap on this forum that it loses its primary focus and becomes a useless spot for trolling and flaming. "Concerned for Others" showed us how easy it is to take the life out of one of these forums. It's really pitiful that an intentionally useless person like yourself can place such a negative pallor on what is usually a vibrant forum.

Finally, let me promise you this. We don't care if you are (miraculously) some sort of long suffering "PGY-2 Orthopedic Resident" at "Riverside", or a wide-eyed high schooler at Escondido Union High School, or a snot nosed sixth grader at San Ysidro, or a disgruntled administrator somehwere in San Diego. Your opinions and actions will have no effect upon us.

We don't care if you do have "powerful" friends who will look down on what we say on this forum. I personally don't care if you're Pat Park in disguise or Jerry Brown's bastard son. Your activity on this forum shows you to be an egocentric, immature, whining, loser. We will not let a self-important little lying twerp like you bother us any longer with your desperate messages. We are busy working toward a major goal in our lives. We don't need or want your approval. We don't care for your useless comments. Keep your ignorant opinions to yourself.

Go away.

Posted on Mar 26, 2000, 5:20 AM
from IP address 209.86.17.162

Well said, excellent post!!!
by DocJoe (no login)

An ortho with 12 days off?

In which alternate universe?

Posted on Mar 26, 2000, 7:07 AM
from IP address 152.163.201.57

The fruitcake universe
by Researching Guy #2 (no login)

In researching many of his past posts, I've found him responding to himself (same IP) numerous times to validate his points. He attacks people who disagree with him, and then gets defensive if someone attacks back. This guy's a nutjob.

Posted on Mar 26, 2000, 9:02 AM
from IP address 216.34.244.103

Open question for Pat Park
by Milo (Login milom)
Forum Moderator

I would assume that any state that has decided to accept California's approval list would be in touch with you on a fairly regular basis therefore you would know which states use the California list. I know New Mexico does and I have heard that Colorado does. I know that you can't speak for other states but just for the one point. Which states now use the California list?

Posted on Jun 22, 2000, 9:14 AM
from IP address 206.206.120.12

Hm......
by Anonymous (Login Myo)

Does that mean UNIBE and Saba students won't be licensed in states that "use" the California list now?

Posted on Jun 22, 2000, 1:25 PM
from IP address 205.188.193.172


YES
by Milo (Login milom)
Forum Moderator


Posted on Jun 22, 2000, 3:58 PM
from IP address 206.206.120.12


Calif. law clarification
by Pat Park (Login PatPark)
Forum Moderator

I need to clarify two points you make regarding California's process for approving foreign medical schools. First, it doesn't cost "tens of thousands of dollars" to have the California Medical Board visit a foreign medical school. After the school submits the mountains of paperwork (yes, you're right on this point) and the Board determines that the site inspection step is now warranted (all analytical work having been completed free of charge to the school), we send 2-3 site visitors to inspect the school. The school pays the exact cost of their hotels, airfares, per diem, taxis, etc. - and not one penny more. If the trip comes in under budget, we refund the school the difference. If we visit more than one school on the same trip, the cost is apportioned fairly among the schools. We're not out to gouge the schools or discourage schools from applying in California.

Second, going to a disapproved or unrecognized school and then "suing the Board" is not a viable option. The California Board has the statutory authority to approve medical schools, and the courts respect and uphold that authority. There won't be any intrepid soul fighting the state of California in court for a couple of years and setting a "precedent" for fellow graduates to sneak into California. No court is going to hear a case where the medical school hasn't even applied for recognition in California or has applied and was disapproved for good cause and was told to correct its deficiencies and then petition for reconsideration, and yet the school hasn't done so. Such schools are not in a legally defensible position.

Since you mentioned UNIBE specifically, I want to clarify that UNIBE has never applied for recognition in California. Someone spread a rumor that UNIBE had applied and been disapproved in California. Not true.

Pat Park, Foreign Schools Liaison, Medical Board of California



Posted on Aug 11, 2001, 11:46 AM
from IP address 165.235.24.2

California
by Robinson (Login robinson10301976)

Dear Ms. Park,

Thank you for your informative post. I have a question and hopefully you can answer it.

Can I practice in California if my school is currently not approved by California, but later got approved?

Robinson

Posted on Aug 11, 2001, 12:35 PM

Depends
by Pat Park (Login PatPark)
Forum Moderator

If you graduated from an unrecognized school in 2000 and the California Medical Board approves your school in 2004, you would become eligible for training and/or licensure in California as long as the Board voted to approve your school "retroactively" to all former students and graduates. We can't predict the nature of the Board's decision in advance. It's usually a retroactive decision, but there can always be some unique extenuating circumstance that causes an exception.

Pat Park, Foreign Schools Liaison, Medical Board of California

Posted on Aug 13, 2001, 8:57 AM
from IP address 205.225.181.2

thanks for the info, and one question...
by neil (Login ncor33)
Forum Moderator

hello ms. park!

first of all, i should state that i agree with the idea that a state should have the ability to verify that a school is providing a good education, and creating good physicians. this seems to be a reasonable way to deal with diploma mills to me. however, i do know that it is illegal for the government to provide students with funding for education (eg. stafford loans) and then deny them a means to pay these loans back. this has been used when residency positions have not been made available to foreign grads, from what i have heard. do you anticipate that california may be accused of preventing students from obtaining employment which will prevent them from paying US dept of Ed. loans back when they return from a school that has not been approved? it seems a little unfair that a student can recieve government money to go to school, and then, if the school decides not to invest the money in the inspection, be unable to practice? just some questions that came to mind, thanks in advance for your help!

neil

ps charles has recieved the paperwork and will be returning it early this semester (hopefully!)

Posted on Aug 11, 2001, 1:42 PM
from IP address 152.163.201.213

state requirements
by pinoymax (Login pinoymax)

hi there,
i've heard that certain states have different requirements for licensure, can someone please tell me where i can get info regarding the licensure requirements of these states.
thanks a lot.

Posted on Aug 11, 2001, 8:09 PM
from IP address 65.197.150.9

Some people on this forum have some serious misconceptions.
by Doctor-Lawyer (Login Doc-Lawyer)
Forum Moderator

I'm a physician as well as an attorney. While I'm not an FMG, and no longer practice medicine, I have practiced health care law for the last 15 years. I'm simply amazed at how many of you are planning your future careers around misinformation. The comments by Pat Parks regarding the California licensing rules and foreign medical school approval process are accurate.

California has well defined and rigid standards for approval of foreign medical schools. However, the process in that state is fair and is designed to allow only the graduates of foreign medical schools with quality programs to seek licensure in that jurisdiction. The California approval process, with which I am very much familiar, is unbiased, and any school with a solid academic program and reasonable infrastructure, should have no difficulty meeting the California standards. There are some schools that mislead their student body by claiming that the approval process, such as the one in place in California, is too costly. The allusive 'high cost' of the process is then used as a justification for the school's unwillingness to undergo an independent review. I think students attending such institutions should think long and hard about the real motives behind their school's unwillingness to submit the necessary paperwork for independent review. Since we have no system of accreditation for foreign medical schools, the various State Boards are left to design their own measures for assessing the strengths and weaknesses of foreign institutions.

The individual who wrote about the "loophole" in California law is also misinformed. If you are working as a physician in a veteran administration hospital (VA hospital), you are not required to be licenced in the jurisdiction in which the hospital is located. That much of what the person said is correct. However, what that writer did not realize is that the VA health care delivery system is often contracted to, non-VA, off-site facilities. This being the case, the VA physician is often required to obtain hospital privileges at the off-site facility. This privilege will not be granted unless the physician filing the application with the hospital holds a valid State license. As a matter of fact, many VA facilities will require you to have a local State license as a pre-requisite to your employment with the federal government. However, this rule does not apply to military physicians working at the base medical facilities.

You should also be aware that there is clear case law in California upholding the California Medical Board's authority to withhold a medical license from a graduate of an unrecognized medical school. So, if you're thinking about duking it out in court, you are really barking up the wrong tree because the weight of the law is clearly against your position.

Anyone contemplating going to any foreign school must take a great deal of care to educate himself or herself about the potential pitfalls, as State laws vary a great deal and can change when you least expect it. No one should even consider foreign medical studies unless all avenues leading to admission to a US medical school have been exhausted. Every state will scrutinize an FMG's quality of medical education and licensure is never routine.

Keep these points in mind when selecting a foreign institution for your future medical studies. Always research all the facts and try to obtain unbiased advice from knowlegeable individuals or entities. Lastly, please avoid posting things on a public forum when you are not well versed in the subject matter. You will be misleading your fellow students who may inadvertenly rely on the information you have posted. As doctors, you will be required to gather accurate information and come up with conclusions that are supported by facts. I think this is a very good place for some of you to practice this critical skill.

Posted on Aug 11, 2001, 10:04 PM
from IP address 172.140.11.68

What's so important about California?
by Angelo (Login asjrmd)
Forum Moderator

What's the big deal about California? If practicing there is such a big deal to you , then BEFORE you go to any international school, make sure it has been approved by that state for residency and/or licensing. Personally I don't see why Californians consider themselves to be above and better than the other 49 states that do receive IMGs , it must have something to do with their protectionist, right-wing view points. Either that, or the fact that so many mexican and central americans immigrate there, or more likely they want to make sure that as much money stays in their medical schools as possible. Could be any combination of the above. But they shoudn't be hipocritical, their residents, (those of the state) aren't any better nor require nor diserve any better medical care than any other american living in any other state. This Pat person seems to have a particular grudge against any physician trying to practice there, and I find it odd and frankly a bit suspicious, how closely she is monitoring this obsure website.

Posted on Aug 12, 2001, 8:16 AM
from IP address 24.4.253.43

What Schools are California Approved?
by Cool Guy (Login Jake2001)

If someone could tell me what foreign medical schools are California approved that would be great.

Thanks.

Posted on Aug 13, 2001, 11:15 AM
from IP address 205.188.198.21

CA approved schools
by Milo (Login milom)
Forum Moderator

AUC,ROSS,SGU are approved
Six schools in the Dominican Republic are approved.
One in Jamaica and one in Haiti are approved. That's all I know about in the Caribbean.
And many others around the world. The board will not publish a list of schools but will answer questions about specific schools if you ask them.

Posted on Aug 14, 2001, 9:15 AM
from IP address 206.206.120.148