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Thread: Salaries

  1. #1
    PotentialPremed is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Salaries

    I heard that ND's can make as much as MD's. Is this true? Also, are Naturopathic Medicine programs easier to get into than traditional med school?

  2. #21
    firstdonoharm is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Medical Facts

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    I forgot to include the following information with the message above. These sites really make one think about vaccines role in supposed eradication of disease.

    http://www.truthquest2.com/vaccination.htm Look at the photos of the children and infants and the effect vaccines had on them.

    Perhaps immunization graphs (which are available to the public) might help also show the true decline of these so-called plagues…
    http://www.pamkilleen.com/Media/Vaccine%20Tables%20(R%20Obomsawin).pdf

  3. #22
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    he said she said

    Correction, the "3 semester ND program" is surely not accredited, and you can not call yourself a Naturopathic Physician after you "complete it" there are only 7 ND programs that are accredited, after 4 year of ND program you have to sit and pass the NPLEX Board exams, somewhat similar to the USMLEs.
    Association of Accredited Naturopathic Medical Colleges - AANMC HOME
    NABNE

    Please get your facts straight
    also your "he said...she said..I knew a guy", are way biased and full of uneducated remarks...

    Quote Originally Posted by spreebee View Post
    Don't waste your time getting an ND... As a med student I can say an M.D. will be more rewarding...There is a program near my undergrad that will award a certified ND after only 3 semesters... The cirriculum is horrible... No anatomy or lthe likes, and you take classes like introduction to herbs. In terms as salaries, you've got to be kidding me... They don't really work in hospitals, and 1 out of 1000 people probably actually go to see one for medical reasons so the salaries are like teachers wages. NDs in the U.S. right now serve more as nutritionists than anything... The degree in China is alot different than the U.S. version...Nevertheless, I knew a guy that had both a ND from China and a U.S. M.D. He said the ND cirriculum is a joke compared to working towards an M.D. He mentioned how the ND cirriculum was more or less comparable to Biology 101 in undergrad in terms of ease...One more thing... You can do what ND's do with your M.D. You are allowed to use herbal treatments as an M.D. and the likes... A doctor back home treats cancer (M.D.) using a mixture of herbs and clinical medicines, as well as oxygen therapy.... You certainly dont have all these powers as an ND...Plus, you learn about some herbs in pharm..

  4. #23
    Melissa. is offline Newbie 510 points
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    thank you, ssky007

    To ssky007,

    thank you for your honesty. It is because of several local N.D.'s here in Portland, Or, that I was able to have the insight that you've shared - and I chose to leave the N.D. school I was attending (NCNM).
    I hope that you can share your experience with many people and help to ensure that graduates of naturopathic schools have a realistic view and knowledge of life post-school for both fields.

  5. #24
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    ND Programs

    Many NDs that I know are doing just fine and have really busy practices....some work together with MDs & DOs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa. View Post
    To ssky007,
    thank you for your honesty. It is because of several local N.D.'s here in Portland, Or, that I was able to have the insight that you've shared - and I chose to leave the N.D. school I was attending (NCNM).
    I hope that you can share your experience with many people and help to ensure that graduates of naturopathic schools have a realistic view and knowledge of life post-school for both fields.

  6. #25
    Clay89 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Some of the links are not working properly. I'm wondering that they are working
    from my laptop while not from pc!
    Can you see the problem?
    'Database Error'!

  7. #26
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12693 points
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    If you are naturally-minded and holistically-inclined, that's great. However, no matter how you view the delivery of health care, your best professional and financial option by far is to complete medical school (either MD or DO), and then specialize and practice in accordance with your best understanding of how to treat patients. The ND in this thread mentioned the integrative medicine residencies/fellowships at Yale and Arizona, and there are a number of other options.

    To simply dismiss physicians as money-grubbers because they choose a career path which optimizes their professional opportunities, practice options, and earning potential is silly. Perhaps all physicians should simply open practices in roadside shacks, wearing sackcloth and ashes to demonstrate their piety? There are plenty of MD/DO's who choose holistic practices because that is what they believe in... and they are able to maintain their practices because of their choice of credentials and their medical licenses.

    Remember that anything a naturopath can do can be done by an allopathic or osteopathic physician, but it doesn't work the other way 'round.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon ° MS - BYU ° MD - MU-Sofia
    Urology Resident; Clinical Research Fellow



  8. #27
    naiyadorzy is offline Newbie 510 points
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    in my opinion it is good to go in MD rather in ND...

  9. #28
    nurse TTG is offline Newbie 510 points
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    regarding the phrase "at least be a nurse"

    Quote Originally Posted by eastern2western View Post
    If u are going to choose a health care profession, I would best recommend to either be a MD or at least be a nurse because those careers are very secure are have high starting salaries.
    As an advanced practice nurse (CNS) with 30 years' ICU experience, a PhD, and a faculty position at a research-intensive health sciences university, I should point out that "at least" has no relevance to my profession. If you're entering any health care profession with the delusion that some are "lesser," you are positioning yourself poorly. The traditional hierarchical model where allopathic physicians are supreme "masters and commanders" is going the way of the dinosaurs (fortunately), and those who cling to it will be an anachronism. Collaboration and communication improve patient outcomes, and rigid hierarchies do not facilitate collaboration or communication.

    It may also be informative to know that I, too, paid a great deal of money for my education (for the PhD alone, I estimate about $80,000, not including opportunity cost). Some schools are considerably more costly. The PhD in nursing program at Penn cost a full-time student $27,418 for the single year 2009-2010 (nationally, time to completion of a nursing PhD is about 6.5 years.) Although MDs often complain about the debt they incurred while getting their education, debt is not a good indicator of cost because wealthier individuals incur less debt by having more available cash to pay tuition and expenses, if they choose. (Some choose debt because it is fiscally wise to use another's money if the interest is not too high.) The total cost of an education is thus more accurate for making comparisons among professions. Although we both had costly graduate educations, the differences between me and my physician colleagues are that 1) I did not have the opportunity for a paid residency (funded by Medicare dollars, which come from ---- oh, yes, you and me), and 2) I cannot hope to recoup my expenses within ten years at the salary paid to nursing faculty. For perspective, the average family practice MD salary is $204,000 (you probably know that family practice is among the lowest-paying specialties in medicine); the average salary of a nurse practitioner, across settings and specialties, is $89,450; and the median salary for an Associate Professor of Nursing is $68,542. (My rank is assistant professor.)

    In conclusion, the only realm in which nursing is "least" would be compensation.

  10. #29
    NUHS-AUC is offline Permanently Banned 535 points
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    Nursing

    Thank you !
    I agree 100%, as a surgical resident at RMC, Chicago, I can state that a hospital w/o nurses can not function, we surely need more nurses.
    (but, this is a naturopathic blog ?? ...)
    Regardless, I wish more students would consider nursing as a profession, it is rewarding in so many ways....

    Best,


    Quote Originally Posted by nurse TTG View Post
    As an advanced practice nurse (CNS) with 30 years' ICU experience, a PhD, and a faculty position at a research-intensive health sciences university, I should point out that "at least" has no relevance to my profession. If you're entering any health care profession with the delusion that some are "lesser," you are positioning yourself poorly. The traditional hierarchical model where allopathic physicians are supreme "masters and commanders" is going the way of the dinosaurs (fortunately), and those who cling to it will be an anachronism. Collaboration and communication improve patient outcomes, and rigid hierarchies do not facilitate collaboration or communication.

    It may also be informative to know that I, too, paid a great deal of money for my education (for the PhD alone, I estimate about $80,000, not including opportunity cost). Some schools are considerably more costly. The PhD in nursing program at Penn cost a full-time student $27,418 for the single year 2009-2010 (nationally, time to completion of a nursing PhD is about 6.5 years.) Although MDs often complain about the debt they incurred while getting their education, debt is not a good indicator of cost because wealthier individuals incur less debt by having more available cash to pay tuition and expenses, if they choose. (Some choose debt because it is fiscally wise to use another's money if the interest is not too high.) The total cost of an education is thus more accurate for making comparisons among professions. Although we both had costly graduate educations, the differences between me and my physician colleagues are that 1) I did not have the opportunity for a paid residency (funded by Medicare dollars, which come from ---- oh, yes, you and me), and 2) I cannot hope to recoup my expenses within ten years at the salary paid to nursing faculty. For perspective, the average family practice MD salary is $204,000 (you probably know that family practice is among the lowest-paying specialties in medicine); the average salary of a nurse practitioner, across settings and specialties, is $89,450; and the median salary for an Associate Professor of Nursing is $68,542. (My rank is assistant professor.)

    In conclusion, the only realm in which nursing is "least" would be compensation.

  11. #30
    likethecity is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackets5 View Post
    You will be very stupid and sorry if you decide to go to a naturopathic school. Go get a MD or a DO and actually be a real doctor and help people. All you will get is alot of debt and a bunch of useless knowledge. Really, i cant believe people are so dumb to believe in this crap
    You're a complete idiot. Seriously, between your poor rationale, flimsy sentence structure and mechanical errors, I wouldn't even consider anything you post to be of any value. For the record, you must know nothing of naturopathic studies. Useless knowledge? You should be a dentist.

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