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  1. #1
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Ottoman Muslim DeportationS and GenocideS Between 1821-1922

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    To understand why in Balkans, in Russia and in (todays) Turkey, about 5.000.000 Ottoman muslims had been deported and about 5.500.000 Ottoman muslims either had been killed for resisting to stay, or had died during deportation:

    Death and Exile
    The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims 1821-1922
    by Justin McCarthy
    Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 by Justin McCarthy

    For the ones who have self respect...
    Last edited by bidiboom; 12-26-2011 at 10:00 AM.

  2. #2
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Only as a part of this big picture above, these are the details of Armenian genocide committed over muslims in Ottoman Empire for decades :
    ARMENIAN REBELLIONS AND MASSACRES - FORSNET
    Last edited by bidiboom; 12-26-2011 at 10:00 AM.

  3. #3
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    As we try to forget, they need to remind!

    My family is from Adana region, a region which had been well populated by Ottoman Armenian citizens. Armenians started such a carnage there that my own grandfather, and all of the men of the muslims, had to get the women and kids to the highlands and hide them to safe places, and HAD TO turn back and fight agains the Armenian militants. My own father had seen a wall painted with a dark dye: As accounted by my grandfather, it was the dried bloods of the executed muslims before it. Then, it was the execution wall of Armenians. Tousands died, tousands had to leave their lands. There are other accounts as well, but they are so brutal that I wont get in it more.

    Ah, guess what? Our French buddies were there as well. France invaded that region while Armenians were going on to execute massacres. How interesting it is that, France invaded a region actually which would never been given to Armenians! They invaded to come close to oil region, not for Armenians.. just like today too right before an election they use Armenians just to milk some more votes. Why God, they get the same Armenian question to the table always right before elections and later shelve it back?

    For any honourable Armenian, this is an insult.

    Because of this reason, because they know very well how Russia and France used them for their own imperialist aspirations, Turkish Armenians talk about everything today, some claim genocide, some says massacre, altogether we talk and discuss history, yes, but they dont want France to get its (not her!) nose in it again!

    Maybe its better for France to discuss 2.000.000 Algerians' genocide in Algeria, not far history, but only in 1960s. Ah sorry! there is a newer one, right!, I forgot: Rwanda genocide! France was providing weapon and financial support, as it had done for Ottoman Armenian militants as well, but this time Hutus? or Tutsis? I cant remember which side! Never mind, the game is all the same, all the same...

    Humanity must NOT stand at this quality level. With imperialist state of mind and classical motives, this ship is going NOWHERE, as it is! We obviously need something above this quality platform.
    Last edited by bidiboom; 12-26-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  4. #4
    samson19 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    I feel you dude. They are doing the same Ethnic Cleansing in Horn of Africa. The Ethiopian 'Abyssinian' Governments have been oppressing and killing the Muslims in the Ogaden Region in masses for over 100 years now. These Muslims are mostly ethnically Somali but their land was given to Ethiopia after the Colonisation of Horn of Africa by the Italian and British Empires. It's sad to see that these atrocities and genocides are supported by the countries we know as 'Democracies' but the truth is without their support 6 million people wouldn't have died in Congo and now we see they have done to Iraq and Afghanistan.

  5. #5
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Todays Turkish government is pretty much interested in on African issues more than earlier governments, but even if they wouldnt, Turkish people always had a sensitive heart about Africans, especially their ordeals. Its impossible for a regular Turk to sit on a dinner table and eat comfortably, while we watch how they starve every day in our homes over tv or internet. Because of this reason only during the recent Somalia drought with only a couple of touch, the NGOs and government raised a $270million. We built hospitals, innumerable wells and every NGO is doing something there. There are many NGOs from Turkey which are operating in Africa, especially in Darfur, Somalia and the likes, But I get information mostly over two of them, a national one, Kimse Yok mu?, means Isnt There Anybody There For Me?, and another international one, Doctors Worldwide. They told their experiences which woke me up to some realities more:

    There are many cataract patients who can gain their sight back with only a specific surgical operation. Kimse Yok mu had volunteer rotations to perform those operations (not for educational purposes, but really to heal them). At their first attempt, despite there were innumerable cataract patients, they saw that they were not been welcomed! It was weird, because they needed, but still they werent coming for those free surgical operations. Later it came out that the Africans were not feeling safe with foreign health teams. White man wasnt coming for their good. In general they were coming to develop their surgical skills by making operations over African patients. (The organizations which are organizing medical rotations in Africa are still operating).

    In time as they see that, yes, our voluntary health teams were really well educated, skilled doctors and nurses, then they began to come and make a line before the clinic to have that catarach operation. During their ensuing rotations, the volunteer health pro.s say, they saw many such patients came from pretty far locations only for that operation and the volunteers made as many operations as they could. One eye was one eye.

    So as my daddy had said many times: "Money is necessary for especially the good guys, Turkish, French or any others wherever they are. Because they work for humanity. But its place is our wallets, not our hearts!"

    I would love to discuss history, to its cells, with those good guys. Honestly!
    Last edited by bidiboom; 12-27-2011 at 08:44 AM.

  6. #6
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12695 points
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    bidiboom, I saw something similar when I was deployed with the Marines in the Balkans during the troubled times between Kosovar Albanians and Kosovar Serbs. My medical team was deployed to provide medical care to people in a poor mountain region near the Macedonian border, and we saw a lot of patients of all ages during this time. There was one little boy, perhaps 8-9 years old, and he had been hit in the face with a large piece of construction wood (we call it a 2x4 in the States). It was apparent upon examination that he had a detached retina, and we attempted to convince his family to allow him to see the Army ophthalmologist at the hospital for an operation that could save his vision.

    No matter how much we tried, no matter how many times we explained the child's injury, the mother refused to allow him to see the doctor, even if we promised that she would be allowed to come along. She was uneducated, and to some extent did not understand the severity of the situation. She insisted that "He is a strong boy, he will be all right," time and time again. In addition, there were just too many bad experiences for her with people in military uniforms (Serbs, in her case, but it is readily apparent that both sides were plenty guilty of atrocities in the region). Add to that the fact that we were foreigners, and she simply did not trust us with her son. We left the next day with heavy hearts, knowing that the little boy would lose his eyesight in one eye. I have never forgotten this kid's face. "One eye is one eye," as you said.

    Mistrust is very difficult to overcome between ethnic and religious groups, and the fact that these NGOs and Turkish groups you referenced are able to develop good relationships and provide the needed operations speaks well for their work.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


  7. #7
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    ...I have never forgotten this kid's face...
    Sometimes a snapshot never leaves. But the good part of it is that, the one there at that moment standing before that kid was you. That loss will turn to the win of some others with you. Who knows how many people will benefit you as a doctor DD.

    ...Serbs, in her case, but it is readily apparent that both sides were plenty guilty of atrocities in the region...
    May I ask when were you there? Because to my knowledge there happened a genocide in 1990s(Srebrenitza, Kosova). Later we have heard some clashes too but they were very limited, but from a distance maybe we didnt hear all.
    Or maybe you mean the severe fights in the region a century ago, which were to my knowledge, not officially, but actually near to a war. As the military officers fought against Balkan resistence movement fighters, themselves turned somewhat to resistent movement fighters and later, as a very sharp, hard, patriotic but wisdom-proof group, they made a military coup, toppled the emperor, deported Armenians (hung/killed Arabs as well), got the whole Ottoman Empire in World War I and eventually lost etc etc.. they are not remembered with good feelings here. But I couldnt tell whether you mean them or a later stage.
    Last edited by bidiboom; 12-27-2011 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #8
    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Our Devildoc hushed again

    Ok, no dead counting..

  9. #9
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12695 points
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    Oh, sorry! I thought that I had written a quick response to this, but apparently either it didn't post, or I was distracted away.

    Anyway, I was there in 2002... this was after the war in the 1990s (and don't let anyone tell you otherwise; it was absolutely a war), but still during hostilities. In fact, the Kosovar Albanian-Serbian conflict smoulders and continues to this day, and it simply isn't going away any time soon. Within the past few months there were attacks and bombings in Kosovo (in fact, just shortly after my family and I returned from visiting Prishtina - yikes!).

    Again, this is a problem with people who have perpetrated incredible evils on both sides.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


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