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Thread: Compilation of Important Information for Prospective and Current Students

  1. #1
    DrHokie. is offline Junior Member 525 points
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    Compilation of Important Information for Prospective and Current Students

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    Why Lublin?

    This is the Medical Campus. You should use Google's Street View to get a feel for the school's substantial infrastructure.

    Main Medical Campus:
    Collegium Pharmaceuticum: at about: 4 Doktor Witolda Chodźki, Lublin, Lublin Voivodeship, Poland
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=4+Dok...ed=0CA4Q8gEwAA
    Collegium Universum: at about : 1 Doktor Witolda Chodźki, Lublin, Lublin Voivodeship, Poland
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1+Dok...ed=0CBgQ8gEwAA
    Collegium Anatomicum: at about: 4 Doktor Kazimierza Jaczewskiego, Lublin, Lublin Voivodeship, Poland
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=4+Dok...ed=0CAsQ8gEwAA
    Collegium Medicum: at about: 11 Radziwiłłowska, Lublin, Lublin Voivodeship, Poland
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=11+Ra...ed=0CAsQ8gEwAA
    PSK-4(aka: Samodzielny Publiczny Szpital Kliniczny nr 4): at about: Doktor Kazimierza Jaczewskiego 8 Lublin, Poland
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dokto...ed=0CAsQ8gEwAA

    Dean's Office and Administration: at about: Aleje Racławickie 1, Lublin, Poland
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Aleje...ed=0CAsQ8gEwAA

    The Medical University of Lublin is one of 2 schools in all of Europe that allow and have organized all of years 3 and 4 of your medical education to be completed (at the hospitals listed below) in the United States.
    --- So what does this mean? This means that after your second year of medical school, after you take and pass the USMLE step 1 exam, you can leave Poland and return to the USA. Students then complete all of years 3 and 4 in America and then they graduate. I thought this was self explanatory, but apparently it is not.

    Going to school at Lublin is a great option that is best used once you exhaust your chances with the osteopathic and big 4 in the Caribbean (St. George, AUC, Ross, SABA).

    I just recently started my rotations in the states, and I can tell you that everyone is on the same level when they get here. There will always be gunners who try to make their peers look bad, but ultimately the knowledge from step 1 keeps everyone in the same game.

    About the Lublin 4 year program:

    Nobody is going to MAKE you do anything. If you are alright with just getting by under the radar, Lublin is not for you. The majority of your education will come from you choosing to take the material seriously, finding study groups to keep focussed, and deciding not to cheat yourself even when the opportunity is there.
    One of the biggest differentiators of Lublin to Carib schools, is the final exam policies. In most european schools (including the polish program at Lublin) it is customary to have up two 2 retakes for final exams. The retakes dont get any easier, and, in fact, they are almost always more difficult than the first exam, but they give you a chance. There is no serious threat of "failing out" of Lublin. That being said, about half of my class did not graduate on time- meaning that they repeated enough classes to have to stay longer in Lublin.

    Lectures and Labs:
    The material covered is all very relevant and important for practicing medicine. If you pay attention, all the high yield items on step 1 are covered in depth. The only, substantial, problem with classes here are the types of questions on the tests. The current format is alot like undergrad type questions (shorter fact based questions and less differentials) and not so much the clinical vignettes that are needed to be comfortable with Step 1.

    It is because of this lack of comfort with the test that most MUL students take about 4-6 months off after year 2 to do Kaplan and prep for the step.
    Take this into account when scheduling your education.

    Rotations:
    MUL actually does a pretty great job with setting up rotation schedules. Many Caribbean schools will schedule rotations one at a time at distant hospitals as dictated by availability. This is typically not the case with Hope. For the vast majority, rotation schedules are scheduled for the entire year with little to no discontinuity between rotations. For example, I was just given my 3rd year rotation schedule. I am scheduled to do all of my core electives at Wyckoff Heights MC. Each of my core electives are scheduled back to back for an entire year. The stability that this provides is invaluable, because it allows an active student the opportunity to be very active at the hospital (outreach, research, connections, etc).

    Having said all of that, Hope currently only has active rotation spots in the suburbs of Chicago (Adventist Hospital systems in Hinsdale and La Grange), WHMC in NYC, Niagra Falls (only for Family med right now), and they are just about to open spots with Kalieda Health Systems in Buffalo (For electives only).

    One must also realize that Lublin and Silesia students are FAR outnumbered by the class sizes at Ross, AUC, AUA, and SABA. All Hope students put together at WHMC make up maybe 15-20 percent of the medical student population (most Hope students are rotating at WHMC), which is dominated by Ross and AUA.

    Residency options:

    From what I've seen and researched, there is not an additional stigma attached to students coming from Lublin as compared to any other FMG.
    In my opinion, scores on Step 1 and 2 are the only significant differentiator between Polish and Caribbean residency applicants.




    Biggest Benefits of choosing Lublin:

    1) GradPlus Loans - This is a luxury that most Caribbean Medical Schools can not offer. This puts you in the same financial boat as most American Medical Students

    2) European Union Certification- By graduating from an EU accredited facility you add an additional layer of confidence that your school is legitimate. In addition, graduates of MUL can practice anywhere in the EU without having to take additional certification exams.

    3) Accreditation in all 50 States.

    4) Normal sized classes (Typically about 30-40 per year. Vs. the ridiculous 300-400 per class at Ross, AUA, etc.)

    5) All students must pass NBME shelf exams (1st year) and BOTH the NBME Step1 (2nd year) and Step2ck (3rd year) comp exams before being allowed to continue on. NO OTHER EUROPEAN SCHOOL IS THIS STRICT yet. (updated as of july 2011)
    Note: If students can not pass the nbme step 1 comp exam after their 3rd attempt, they must start clinical rotations in Poland. MULublin will not allow you to sit for the Step 1 exam until you pass the NBME Step 1 comp (the same goes for step 2ck, except that you can continue rotations in the states without worry)



    Biggest Disadvantages of choosing Lublin:

    1) Not all of your peers will be as serious about their medical education as you think they should be.

    2) Cultural and Language barriers- There are some classes (mostly in your first year) where the professor's english skills will not be great. Having said that, it is no different than having a foreign TA teach you chemistry. (Its annoying but not insurmountable).
    Ironically, the cultural barrier I speak of in this situation is not Polish, but rather Indian. The vast majority of the American students at Lublin are of Indian-American descent. There can be alot of 'high-school' level drama that may keep you from finding the ideal study group situation (again its annoying but not insurmountable).

    3) Poland is cold.

    4) Poland is 5000 miles away from your family.






    Bottom Line:

    If you:
    1) have a strong background in Science (Bachelors in Biology etc.)
    2) are self motivated and do not require alot of guidance to read and learn material
    3) are mentally capable of living 5000 miles away from home
    4) WANT TO BE A PHYSICIAN

    then Lublin is a smart and very reasonable choice.
    Last edited by DrHokie.; 07-04-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  2. #2
    DrHokie. is offline Junior Member 525 points
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    Detailed Information about Clinical Rotations in the US


    List of Hospitals affiliated with MULublin and their associated GREENBOOK rotations:

    Wyckoff Heights Medical Center, Brooklyn NY:

    Family Medicine: (Triple accredited)
    120-35-21-507 Wyckoff Heights Medical Center Program
    120-35-21-530 Brooklyn Hospital Center Program
    AOA approved Program Number: 129226 New York College of Osteopathic Medicine
    Internal Medicine:
    140-35-21-520 Wyckoff Heights Medical Center Program
    Anesthesiology:
    040-35-31-097 Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center Program
    Gastroenterology (IM):
    144-35-12-185 Brooklyn Hospital Center Program
    Hematology and Oncology (IM):
    155-35-12-135 Brooklyn Hospital Center Program
    Pathology-Anatomic and Clinical:
    300-35-21-260 SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn Program
    Pediatrics:
    320-35-11-148 Brooklyn Hospital Center Program
    Pulmonary Disease (IM):
    149-35-12-185 Brooklyn Hospital Center Program
    Obstetrics and Gynecology (AOA approved):
    Program Number: 129227- New York College of Osteopathic Medicine
    Surgery-General (AOA approved):
    Program Number: 129229- New York College of Osteopathic Medicine

    Adventist Hinsdale Hospital, Chicago IL (suburbs)

    Family Medicine:
    120-16-21-109 Adventist Hinsdale Hospital Program
    Radiation Oncology:
    430-16-11-116 University of Chicago/University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program

    Adventist La Grange Memorial Hospital, Chicago IL (suburbs)

    Family Medicine:
    120-16-11-110 Adventist La Grange Memorial Hospital Program
    Radiation Oncology:
    430-16-11-116 University of Chicago/University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program

    Phoenix Baptist Hospital and Med Ctr/Vanguard Health System, Phoenix Arizona

    Family Medicine:
    120-03-21-029 Phoenix Baptist Hospital and Medical Center Program
    Obstetrics and Gynecology:
    220-03-21-328 Phoenix Integrated Residency Program

    St. John's Episcopal Hospital South Shore, Far Rockaway NY

    Psychiatry:
    400-35-12-304 St John's Episcopal Hospital-South Shore Program

    Kalieda Health Systems, Buffalo NY

    Allergy and Immunology:
    020-35-21-053 University at Buffalo School of Medicine
    Anesthesiology:
    040-35-21-093 University at Buffalo School of Medicine
    Neurology:
    180-35-21-067 University at Buffalo School of Medicine
    Neurological Surgery:
    160-35-21-050 University at Buffalo School of Medicine
    Otolaryngology:
    280-35-13-135 University at Buffalo School of Medicine
    Pulmonary Disease and Critical Care (IM):
    156-35-31-044 University at Buffalo School of Medicine

    Weiss Memorial Hospital, Chicago IL

    Emergency Medicine (AOA approved):
    Program Number: 126350 Midwestern University

    Questions asked:
    "Does MUL have any greenbook surgery rotations in the U.S?"
    Answer: Not explicitly. Depending on the bylaws of the state you are applying for liscensure, they may count AOA (D.O) accredited rotations as "greenbook". MUL has an AOA accredited Surgery rotation at WHMC. Another option to consider is completing your surgery rotation in Lublin, which is considered Greenbook.

    "How have you dealt with licensing concerns when scheduling your core rotations?"
    Nearly everyone i know, including myself, completes their surgery rotation at wyckoff. From my personal experience, the rotation was on par with acgme approved rotations. Infact, during the surgery rotation, you rotate with some of the nycom students.

    I can completely understand the confusion regarding licensing questions/issues. The rules are incredibly convoluted and fractured from state to state. In my case, I am keeping the number of blue core rotations to a minimum (in my case- only surgery), and I am open to moving around a bit it need arises. Having said that, I have had back to back core rotations at WHMC for the last year with all green rotations so far (except surgery). I completed psych at St. Johns- which is about 30 min away by subway from wyckoff. I did not have to move from my apartment to do psych- it is close enough to commute from WHMC.

    In my opinion, the perfect order for 3rd year MUL rotation schedule is listed below:

    1) Family Medicine @ Adventist Hospital Systems (outside of Chicago) -
    2) OBGYN @ WHMC
    3) [email protected]
    4) IM @WHMC (weakest of the rotations on this list)
    5) Surgery @ WHMC
    6) Psychiatry @ St.John's Far Rockaway, NYC
    Last edited by DrHokie.; 10-08-2012 at 03:50 PM.
    swathir and Sai28Baba like this.

  3. #3
    DrHokie. is offline Junior Member 525 points
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    Cost Analysis:
    Cost of Attendance of the American 4 year English Program:
    Tuition alone:
    Semesters 1-4: $11,000 x4 = $44,000
    Semesters 5-8: $18,500 x4 = $74,000 (This tuition payment can also be broken down into cost per week of rotations)
    Total tuition for semesters 1-8: = $118,000

    Fees:
    Seat Allocation Fee: = $10,000
    Clinical Rotation Start Fee: = $1,000
    Cost of Living (rent, food, books, etc):
    Semesters 1-4: $5,000 x 4 = $20,000
    Semesters 5-8: $9,000 x 4 = $36,000 (New York)

    Total estimated Cost of Attendance and Living: = $185,000




    If there are any general questions about MULublin, Clinicals in the US, or anything that could be helpful for prospective students, please ask them here. I will try to answer them to the best of my ability as soon as I can. (I am a 3rd year med student after all)
    Last edited by DrHokie.; 04-23-2012 at 11:30 AM.

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    swathir is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Thank you so much for all of this information - it is truly invaluable.

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    bleufeenix is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Oh wow this is absolutely fantastic!!! Thanks so much for all the info!!! It is greatly appreciated!

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Do you perceive any kind of discrimination in Lublin med?

  7. #7
    DrHokie. is offline Junior Member 525 points
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    Im not really sure what you mean by discrimination.

    Racially: Lublin is a fairly small city that is mostly inhabited by large college student populations. There are a total of 5 different universities in the city. Other than the 200 or so MULublin students (who are mostly of Indian-american descent), there are not many other non-polish students. Even though there are not many "foreign" students in the city, Lublin is fairly welcoming to non-poles. Having said that, it is important to note that many of the city's inhabitants have had little exposure to non-europeans. As in any city, there are some who are more welcoming than others. If you are nice, reasonable and open-minded, there is no need to worry about discrimination. On a personal note, in my 2 years living in Lublin, I had made a handful of good friends who were Polish, and have also had a few instances where I felt like I was being treated unfairly because of my ethnicity or nationality. All in all though, it was a good ride.

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Social environment is, yes, important for piece of mind.. but if you are a nice person, in any case you create a warm atmosphere and relations.. of cource generally speaking.. there may be obsessed people and you may not be able to reach them, but its ok, we dont have to love/be loved by all..

    The main point here is to see discriminative attitude from university/professor.. I am a muslim and I use headscarf (but of course not a radical at all), and I am a non-traditional with my age, 45.. a couple of times I have read in this forum that in Poland there is a racist attitude towards coloured people.. if there have never been any direct problem with coloured people, but despite if there is still a racist attitude towards coloured people, there may be other kinds of illnesses in that society as well.. I dont mean the Polish are sick-minded people, but to my knowledge they didnt have a past with coloured people, they didnt see anything wrong from them, or they didnt have ancestors that had racist paradigm.. so why do they have a racist perception? It is important to understand this point.. if its just because of the defensiveness of a conservative society, its ok, understandable.. but if there is a tinge of aggression in it, then I cant think how aggressive they can be with me, for they have a bad idea about Al Kaida and Taliban.. I cant pay for the wrongdoings of those terrorists.. especially during an education in which I have to be very much dedicated..

  9. #9
    sdp
    sdp is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Is there no Greenbook Surgery Rotation? Just wondering because some states require all cores to be greenbook.

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    PachaasPaisaa is offline Junior Member 48 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidiboom View Post
    Social environment is, yes, important for piece of mind.. but if you are a nice person, in any case you create a warm atmosphere and relations.. of cource generally speaking.. there may be obsessed people and you may not be able to reach them, but its ok, we dont have to love/be loved by all..

    The main point here is to see discriminative attitude from university/professor.. I am a muslim and I use headscarf (but of course not a radical at all), and I am a non-traditional with my age, 45.. a couple of times I have read in this forum that in Poland there is a racist attitude towards coloured people.. if there have never been any direct problem with coloured people, but despite if there is still a racist attitude towards coloured people, there may be other kinds of illnesses in that society as well.. I dont mean the Polish are sick-minded people, but to my knowledge they didnt have a past with coloured people, they didnt see anything wrong from them, or they didnt have ancestors that had racist paradigm.. so why do they have a racist perception? It is important to understand this point.. if its just because of the defensiveness of a conservative society, its ok, understandable.. but if there is a tinge of aggression in it, then I cant think how aggressive they can be with me, for they have a bad idea about Al Kaida and Taliban.. I cant pay for the wrongdoings of those terrorists.. especially during an education in which I have to be very much dedicated..
    what on earth are you trying to say?

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