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  1. #1
    medstudious's Avatar
    medstudious is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Medical "University" of Lodz - YEAR1 (PLZ read)

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    Hey,
    Current Lodz student here. Just trying to DETER(STOP) anyone from attending the Medical University of Lodz. Here are just some very true facts about day-to-day UMED life.


    Why not hit up that sexy website of theirs : Medical University of Lodz, Division of Studies in English


    This website was NOT around when I was applying...
    Although I think many individuals might get confused seeing that it looks like the official website for a Kentucky Preschool.


    The 6MD program is where it's at. The 4MD program is essentially the SAME as the 6MD program, only accelerated. The 5 DMD program is a mess from what I have heard. Respect to the uni for the fancy Didactic Center, but the Dentistry students' courses for Anatomy, Pathology, Micro etc. etc. are GROSSLY underwhelming and are laughable, even to the 6MD students.


    Anywhoo, I clicked on the 6MD tab on the side


    Basically nothing special, just general info. The juicy stuff you get at the bottom, with the blue links.
    1. Booklist


    This is ABSOLUTE crap. NONE of these books are required. Please hold off buying any textbooks, for ANY class. The BEST information that one gets is from the prof of the class , NOT forums or past students, since they want to sell you their copies.


    DERP

    2. Curriculum 6MD



    This is where pooh pooh gets funny. This will open a Word document, thanks very much. I see PDFs are a true luxury unfortunately. All that clicking and converting can cause a real head rush.


    First thing that strikes you is the list of classes for year 1. These are set in stone, no exchanges, refunds, nothing.
    Something on the far right says ECTS points. What are ECTS points ????? I could explain to you , but idk.

    Cuz no one really knows. ...


    Someone somewhere knows, but no one that you will come into contact with during your studies will explain this to you.

    Technically you need 60 ECTS points for one year of study. That's all there is to it? How are they allocated?
    The ECTS points are ARBITRARY.. the sherlock in you is thinking "the more ECTS, the more hours" ..perhaps..but this is where it goes south..


    The hours are NOT true hours, but 45 minutes. That's number 1. Next, the number of hours are GROSSLY exaggerated for EACH year, as you go up from 1st to 6th year. And I mean like Fun-house GROSSLY exaggerated. So are you doing 792 hours in first year? Barely...Based on some personal calculations from recent memory, these are estimated hours for each year :


    792 in 1st year ...comes out to ..not bad, maybe 650
    965 in second year....you come close
    938 in 3rd year...more like an estimated 600
    1076. in 4th year..wait for it...its actually like 650
    1101 in 5th year...actually closer to 700
    915 in 6th year...450


    This might seem like nothing special, but remember that the medical councils of Europe are still trying to decide whether or not the 4MD program is legitimate due to the accelerated program and deficient hours for certain subjects!!



    Nothing scandalous? Let's move on.


    What is the difference between a credit and an exam? NOT MUCH actually, considering. Classes that end with an exam are supposed to have a serious exam, and the credit classes with a ..less serious "test."
    NO. just no.

    Which 1st year classes officially require an exam??

    - Biophysics
    - Gross anatomy and Neuroscience
    - History of Medicine
    - Medical Biology
    - Medical Chemistry


    I can tell you the exams for these classes are nothing different than the assessment for the "credit" classes. Why put this contradicting information on the website? It seems like a facade, some EU standard that must be met, and is no where close to what is in practice!!


    Nothing i say will shock you if you are an adult who has seen the world and has some experience dealing with lying and conniving "for-profit" schools. But this school preys on HIGH SCHOOL students' naivete , and openly fabricates what appears to be transparent information about the school. SO the Curriculum, what does it entail?


    Year 1
    Biophysics, a disaster of a class, doesn't apply either physics or biology into any coherent entity. Powerpoint presentations that look like they were made by a dysthymic Polish grad student from the early 2000s, are very archaic and you will NEVER SEE ANYTHING YOU LEARN IN THAT CLASS AGAIN.


    Biostatistics: this is NOT taught from the US books, but from powerpoints! WHY don't they use the NBME (US Medical Exam) book to prep you for this class? It's EXTREMELY important !! You need to know this stuff..The class is boring, un-engaging, and you will find yourself teaching yourself the material in your room 1 week prior to you CBS (mini Step1 exam)


    First-Aid and Elements of Nursing : NO NURSING. Just state that right off the top. First- aid is similar to a high school class or if you ever took life-guarding courses as a teen. Actually, i would advise everyone to train as a life-guard since they will gain true, pragmatic knowledge of first aid. The class is just powerpoints. Doesn't it strike anyone that teachers who wish their students learned something ELABORATE and DRILL certain pieces of information, allowing for better retention? No..because teaching isn't actually part of anyone's agenda..No one's agenda. The exam in non coherent and a MCQ (multiple choice question) with one right answer..standard. There was NO practical exam on the mannequins when we passed the class.


    Gross Anatomy and Neuroscience: So sad. So so so sad. This is meant to be the biggest course in the first year, and is so disastrously taught that it is a shame to say. The main prof, Topol, is the textbook definition of apathy, and I don't believe such an individual has ever has a calling for teaching and a life at a university. Watch his lectures. Every one. And just carefully watch how and why every teacher in this school behaves the way they do. It is due to people like him; enthusiasm and hunger for knowledge, inquiry and EVERYTHING that is meant to be born in young people entering university to explore and understand the world around is staunched, discouraged and so severely marginalized that it should have been a breaking point..The clinical classes are nothing to discuss. You stand is a freezing morgue with a stuttering teacher and a bag of meat and bones. Virtually USELESS. Recently the introduction of the E-learning has fallen short on the "Tech boom" that was meant to follow the Didactic Center opening..Pitiful.


    History of Medicine: Such a fascinating class just taken and thrown in the toilet. A stuttering teacher, refusing to engage students, fails miserable to ignite any kind of passion towards the development of medicine and its technology. The powerpoints are so poorly made they should be used to teach a class on how NOT TO MAKE POWERPOINT presentations. HOW ARE THESE PEOPLE DOCTORS ??


    Library Training : this is not a real class, this is literally a one day tour of the library. OOH maybe you will have a tour of the NEW library, WOW.now i'm jealous. It's good too, since students who are accepted into a medical school usually have never set foot in a library before, so...


    Medical Biology: GOD i can't decide which one of these classes was worse. No textbook for this class, just presentations, and some practical nonsense, drawing birds and bees...literally. Teachers are rude as hell, and there are quizzes after each class. The teacher reads the results of out loud, causing students to turn on each other real fast..FUNNNN


    Medical Informatics: I don't even remember...I think we had a class where they showed us what Microscoft excel was. Thank god for that.. since you NEVER USE IT AGAIN


    Medicinal Chemistry: essentially high school chemistry...no textbook , just some crappy powerpoints..same crap with the quizzes, and teachers use classroom humiliation rhetoric to inspire learning.. Teachers have no idea that people come from all over the world with different standards of education and styles of learning, and just resort to passive aggression and rudeness..I swear i used Khan Academy to prepare for the quizzes


    Sociology in Medicine: can't remember ..no textbook, just a teacher reading something about something. You will NOT write a paper, like i supposed you should in a real sociology class.


    Introduction to Medical and Academic Professionalism: WOW ..probably the funniest class. not like LOL funny, but more in the ironic sense. The academic integrity and professionalism that they TRY to preach is so lost on their innate goal to admit and pass AS MANY students through the program as possible. ZERO scruples.
    This is like 3-4 classes total, probably taught by a guy called JJ. You might draw a picture ...a mental map or something..


    Polish: its a boring, sad language class...Not like HS tho. there are just some sheets that the teacher might give you..you learn to say "Hello" and "pencil"... If you are a polish speaker..its tricky. it changes year to year what they do with you. sorry, i guess with "70 years of tradition in medical education " and they can't figure out how to make 2 separate Polish classes


    Physical Education: Yes, its a gym class, in the worst gym in the galaxy. They tell you to change clothes and then use a bunch of broken machines in a crammed room with the PL students.


    Electives are all the same


    Summer training: good god. you aren't trained to do anything. this is really 1-2 weeks where you walk around a hospital instead of being home with your family during the summer. the best way to describe the class is a glimpse of what you will be doing for the next 6 years of your life.



    to be continued..
    Last edited by medstudious; 12-19-2016 at 04:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Med grad is offline Member 528 points
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    What you are describing is the standard Polish medical education, which is the same in all Polish schools. This is exactly what the Polish students get in the six year program except the language of instruction is Polish.

    If you are from North America, your frustration is understandable. But you are in a Polish school with a Polish based curriculum that is designed for the Polish students, not North Americans.

    People should understand the system and the teaching methods of EE schools before going there. They are not designed to prepare you to come back to US or Canada. These schools are there for the Poles, plain and simple. They give you the opportunity to enter the Match lottery and nothing more. What you do with that Polish diploma is entirely up to you. The schools don't care whether you succeed or not. They simply want your money.

    Your first reaction may be to transfer to another Polish school. I am here to tell you that it won't make any difference. If you are there, simply put up with it and finish and see what you can do with the degree.

  3. #3
    medstudious's Avatar
    medstudious is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Hi Med grad,

    Thanks for your comment. Essentially, I want people to understand the vast difference between the EE schools and North American schools, so that they can make an EDUCATED decisions. There is no transparency in the EE med schools and even less info from "alumni." In addition, the website for UMED is very misleading, claiming to prepare you for the USMLE steps, and since it is targeting at US and Canadian students, contains a lot of incorrect information to SEEM like a US-style institution. If, after reading everything that I post, someone still decides on attending the school, that's totally up to them.

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    Med grad is offline Member 528 points
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    You are doing the right thing by exposing the weaknesses in the EE programs. This is all you can do and what people believe or don't believe is entirely up to them. Going outside the North America worked for and I matched. But that was not because of the school I attended. A lot of it had to do with self education coupled with a huge dose of luck. This is why I take the time to post because misleading students with flashy websites and exaggerated statistics is what all these schools do--be it in EE or the Caribbeans.

    If someone has to go outside for medical education, Irish or Australian programs are really the only ones who would give you an education although they are not geared to preparing you for the US and Canadian exams. But they are high quality programs and will teach you enough to make the road back a little smoother. Those schools are expensive but the larger Caribbean schools are just as expensive. Even EE is no longer as cheap as it used to be.

    As I always say, at the risk of repeating myself, people should know the facts and research their options carefully. This is the best defense against making a huge mistake with the potential to adversely impact the rest of one's life!
    Quote Originally Posted by medstudious View Post
    Hi Med grad,

    Thanks for your comment. Essentially, I want people to understand the vast difference between the EE schools and North American schools, so that they can make an EDUCATED decisions. There is no transparency in the EE med schools and even less info from "alumni." In addition, the website for UMED is very misleading, claiming to prepare you for the USMLE steps, and since it is targeting at US and Canadian students, contains a lot of incorrect information to SEEM like a US-style institution. If, after reading everything that I post, someone still decides on attending the school, that's totally up to them.

  5. #5
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    Med school in the E-EU is a slog (at best) and a catastrophe (at worst). There are better and worse options, but the list of better schools in the Bloc is pretty short, and admission there remains somewhat competitive (Jag, Charles First, Semmelweis...). While these programs are better, and have decent reputations, they are still in the Bloc and still not run with anything approaching a Western mentality or sense of organization. With that said, it is the remaining (vast majority of) programs that fit the above descriptions, and some of the schools -- like Lodz, apparently -- are becoming savvy enough to market themselves to Western students without actually tailoring their programs to fit those standards.

    This can have rough consequences. I have posted this on VMD before, but my graduating class (not in Poland, still in the E-EU) had 18 students. One year after graduation, there were 2 in US FM residencies, 1 in German neurology residency, and 1 in Swiss urology residency. The rest were either not working in medicine, continuing to pay even more tuition for residency training in Bulgaria (without any guarantee that they will be able to use that training when they are done), or working illegally in rural India. Those numbers are pretty sobering.

    There is a potential pathway to a career in medicine in through the Bloc, but it is not for the faint of heart, it requires unfathomable amounts of effort outside of the regular curriculum, and it is a huge (like, HUGE) pain in the butt. Having been through it, I certainly do not recommend it to most people. There are a few outliers in that regard, but not very many, and I always-always-always recommend that people visit the schools before committing to attend.

    I'm certainly grateful to be where I am and to be doing what I am doing, but the path was infinitely more stressful and frustrating than it needed to be. People need to know that, and they need to not take any information from recruiters, agencies, or the schools themselves at face value.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


  6. #6
    MedicalUniversityofLodz is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Dear medstudious,

    We cannot agree with your opinion. However, we appreciate all remarks, comments and suggestions from our students. Feel free to contact us directly, we will be happy to discuss all the relevant issues.

    Student Office

  7. #7
    medstudious's Avatar
    medstudious is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc8404 View Post
    Med school in the E-EU is a slog (at best) and a catastrophe (at worst). There are better and worse options, but the list of better schools in the Bloc is pretty short, and admission there remains somewhat competitive (Jag, Charles First, Semmelweis...). While these programs are better, and have decent reputations, they are still in the Bloc and still not run with anything approaching a Western mentality or sense of organization. With that said, it is the remaining (vast majority of) programs that fit the above descriptions, and some of the schools -- like Lodz, apparently -- are becoming savvy enough to market themselves to Western students without actually tailoring their programs to fit those standards.
    Hey devildoc8404,

    Thanks for your comment. If you are the devil's doc I will play the devil's advocate.

    How sure are you that Prague and Semmelweis and Jag are schools worthy of attendance? Have you worked or attended these schools? From what I have heard the Charles 1st school in Prague is well organized, but still a money-pit for international students. Jag is the only one that one could consider "legitimate" since it has the Canadian and American recognition, but even still, complaints come from students claiming that administration and teachers struggle with competence. As an American, I believe there is so much in the university "experience" that is SOO lost on these schools. E-EU and N.American schools are run very differently, and for the objective and strong of heart,survival is possible, but most individuals attending any PL school I know are on the verge of a meltdown. The culture is far to different....
    There are those who are not breaking down, but if you look closely you can tell why. These individuals have connections back home, and are trolling for 4-6 years, and are guaranteed a job. I can tell you this with certainty that that is the case at UMED.

    As with the Hungarian schools, I haven't heard much either, but from what I understand, they aren't too different. Individuals from Hungarian schools transfer to UMED, and the comments are similar. From what I understand, the Hungarian schools attract Israeli students, and the Polish schools attract Saudi and Arab students, that's the major difference from what I have heard.


    Otherwise, I really appreciate you posting on this thread and I respect your opinion; it seems to be very similar to mine. I hope to expose as much as possible about UMED, since they have, on many occasions, caused individuals huge psychological problems and cost them thousands of dollars due to their greed.

    Current student

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    devildoc8404's Avatar
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    If you are the devil's doc I will play the devil's advocate.

    Military nickname... not my actual profession.

    How sure are you that Prague and Semmelweis and Jag are schools worthy of attendance? Have you worked or attended these schools?

    Obviously not, I only attended one E-EU medical school. Thank heavens, that was plenty. However, I have been living, studying, and now working in Europe long enough to have done some traveling and investigation. I also have worked both directly and indirectly with graduates from some of these schools (Semmelweis and Jag, especially). Sooooo... I'm pretty damn sure. Although, as I stated above, they are STILL East Bloc schools and they STILL have their issues. Anyone going to the Bloc for medical school and expecting a North American style education is in for a rude awakening, to some degree or other.

    From what I have heard the Charles 1st school in Prague is well organized, but still a money-pit for international students.

    Yuuup. All of the E-EU English language programs (and the E-EU German language programs, for that matter) are cash cows for the medical schools. That is the only real reason that they exist, for crying out loud. To assume otherwise is a fool's errand.

    Jag is the only one that one could consider "legitimate" since it has the Canadian and American recognition, but even still, complaints come from students claiming that administration and teachers struggle with competence.

    There is no such thing as "Canadian and American recognition" -- the recognition of a medical degree is largely managed on a state/provincial level. Some E-EU medical school English programs have all 50 states, for example, and most of them do not. Jag does, yeah, but so does Charles First and Semmelweis, among others... and simply having that is no guarantee of quality, by any stretch of the imagination. It just makes managing some things (and future residency/job opportunities) easier later.

    I am an odd duck in that I attended a year and change of medical school in the US before finishing in Europe. I can certainly vouch for the fact that there are crappy and incompetent (and worse) medical school professors in the US, as well. As many? Probably not. But enough to often make medical school suck pretty much no matter where you are.

    As an American, I believe there is so much in the university "experience" that is SOO lost on these schools.

    As an American, I wholeheartedly agree with you. This ain't America, though. If we wanted the American medical school experience, then we should have busted our butts the first time around and graduated from American medical schools. In the immortal words of Austin Powers, "That train has sailed."

    E-EU and N.American schools are run very differently, and for the objective and strong of heart,survival is possible, but most individuals attending any PL school I know are on the verge of a meltdown. The culture is far to different....

    The strong survive. Absolutely. I saw a lot of people get off the airplane in E-EU and within a matter of an hour I could tell you "Mmmmmnope, not gonna make it." Invariably, I was right within about 6-8 weeks.

    Cultural differences are differences. They are neither good nor evil, in many cases, they are just different. Nobody is going to turn an E-EU medical school into a US medical school. That just will not happen. Even with largely equivalent technologies (coming, but it is going to take a loooong time) there are just different mindsets and cultural norms that will make things operate outside of the norm for other countries.

    There are those who are not breaking down, but if you look closely you can tell why. These individuals have connections back home, and are trolling for 4-6 years, and are guaranteed a job. I can tell you this with certainty that that is the case at UMED.

    All of them? Seriously? ALL of them?

    Well, FWIW, I did not break down. I wanted to sometimes, but hell, I busted my **** and lost a lot of hair and spent countless hours in clinic after almost everybody else went home and hated the people who cheated on tests and got the same score that I did from studying for hours on end and learned another foreign language (to a passable degree) and dealt with profs who hated Americans and foreigners in general and got food poisoning more times that I could count and missed my wife and kids far too often and... I definitely did not have any job guaranteed after graduation, and I definitely was not "trolling."

    Now yeah, I got a job after graduation, a better one than I had imagined -- and I am grateful for it -- but absolutely nothing was guaranteed.

    No, I am not at your UMED school. Yes, I am sure that there are people skating by there, there sure as hell were at my school. So what? How does that affect your future in medicine (other than pissing us both off and making it a pain in the butt)? It can't. You can't let it. Not if you want to squeeze as much medical education juice as you can out of the turnip that is your E-EU medical school.

    As with the Hungarian schools, I haven't heard much either, but from what I understand, they aren't too different. Individuals from Hungarian schools transfer to UMED, and the comments are similar. From what I understand, the Hungarian schools attract Israeli students, and the Polish schools attract Saudi and Arab students, that's the major difference from what I have heard.

    Matters not one whit. Do it, or don't. My school was pulling in a ton of Indian students, then it was Turkish students, then a bunch of Greek students, now that I have been away a few years I have no idea whose money they are getting, and it does not matter. The organization is terrible and the onus is on the student to learn. If you are fortunate and dedicated you'll find some good professors (there are some there, I promise) who will be happy to meet a foreign student who really wants to learn and will go on rounds with them and show some initiative. The skaters who cut out at the first break in lecture, or do not come at all, will be crappy doctors... if they ever graduate. Do not be a crappy doctor.

    Otherwise, I really appreciate you posting on this thread and I respect your opinion; it seems to be very similar to mine. I hope to expose as much as possible about UMED, since they have, on many occasions, caused individuals huge psychological problems and cost them thousands of dollars due to their greed.

    I do not have a high opinion of most E-EU institutions, but I see them for what they are. It is a huge disconnect to expect a North American style education at an East Bloc institution. That will not likely happen in our lifetimes. When I was with the Marine Corps there was a saying that I thought of a lot during E-EU the medical slog: "Adapt and overcome." The ability to do that -- rapidly disappearing, based on my observational analysis, but I am an old-school bubba -- generally predicts the level of success coming out of an E-EU medical school.

    If you are a current student (yup, I see it says so right there) then I encourage you to immerse yourself in whatever good things/profs/experiences can be found at UMED, and get the hell through it, and then create an outstanding medical career for yourself. Once you are out, you never have to give them any money again, EVER.

    Good luck to you.
    Last edited by devildoc8404; 01-25-2017 at 06:35 PM. Reason: clarification

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


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