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Thread: Can any current students comment on if MUA is a good school?

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    hopefulmed95 is offline Member 510 points
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    Can any current students comment on if MUA is a good school?

    I'm looking at a few Caribbean schools or just staying statside and trying for DO but can any current students comment on their experience with MUA and if it is a good school?

    Current students please thank you.

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    Well, I was talking about MUA grads of around 2016 or so. You will probably get more response on the Facebook page. You can tell it is a solid med school by seeing their match list and then going to those residency sites. Good luck deciding.

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    don1 is offline Moderator 548 points
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    I agree with spodat

    Quote Originally Posted by SPODAT View Post
    Well, I was talking about MUA grads of around 2016 or so. You will probably get more response on the Facebook page. You can tell it is a solid med school by seeing their match list and then going to those residency sites. Good luck deciding.
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    hopefulmed95 is offline Member 510 points
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    The match list is a match list. I don't think it really gives enough information to someone like me to decide if the school is "solid" or not. For example, how many people entered the match in that year from MUA and how many of them actually matched?
    How many students who started exactly four years ago, matched in four years? How many people matched after multiple attempts? What is the STEP 2 pass rate? Things like that. If MUA can provide that information, then we can use that to determine if it's a good school. As far as today, I have not been able to get my hands on that information.

    I'm actually focusing on DO schools stateside now. I was also told by a recent SGU grad to avoid SGU so I'm not going to be looking at another Caribbean school. I personally don't know anyone from MUA so that's why I was on here trying to get some info but I really didn't get the info I needed. Thanks anyway though.

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    don1 is offline Moderator 548 points
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    Since I was there, MUA received California approval; that in itself is an indication it is a solid school. California is very difficult to get approval from.

    Did the SGU grad you spoke with match? if they matched, are they saying it was good for them, but not you? I would not take any 1 persons opinion. I think California approval is a huge validation. SGU is also a solid school. if you have the money (SGU is way more expensive than MUA), smarts to be a physician, I think you would do fine at any credible medical school, which MUA and SGU are.

    IF you go the DO route you will always be a DO. I have a few DO friends and they always seem to be compensating for their degree by saying they are as good as or better than MD's. MD's couldn't care less justifying their degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by hopefulmed95 View Post
    The match list is a match list. I don't think it really gives enough information to someone like me to decide if the school is "solid" or not. For example, how many people entered the match in that year from MUA and how many of them actually matched?
    How many students who started exactly four years ago, matched in four years? How many people matched after multiple attempts? What is the STEP 2 pass rate? Things like that. If MUA can provide that information, then we can use that to determine if it's a good school. As far as today, I have not been able to get my hands on that information.

    I'm actually focusing on DO schools stateside now. I was also told by a recent SGU grad to avoid SGU so I'm not going to be looking at another Caribbean school. I personally don't know anyone from MUA so that's why I was on here trying to get some info but I really didn't get the info I needed. Thanks anyway though.
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    hopefulmed95 is offline Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    Since I was there, MUA received California approval; that in itself is an indication it is a solid school. California is very difficult to get approval from.

    Did the SGU grad you spoke with match? if they matched, are they saying it was good for them, but not you? I would not take any 1 persons opinion. I think California approval is a huge validation. SGU is also a solid school. if you have the money (SGU is way more expensive than MUA), smarts to be a physician, I think you would do fine at any credible medical school, which MUA and SGU are.

    IF you go the DO route you will always be a DO. I have a few DO friends and they always seem to be compensating for their degree by saying they are as good as or better than MD's. MD's couldn't care less justifying their degree.
    Yes, the SGU grad matched but according to them, some of their classmates did not or matched into prelim positions. They said you are essentially working harder as a Caribbean medical student to become a doctor than a student who is in a US program. My friend has a STEP1 of 240 and STEP2 of 252. Those are well above average numbers for that exam and even then they still did not get their #1 spot. According to them, even at SGU, if you make 220, you might end up in primary care. That's SGU, I would actually argue that things would be even harder at a school like MUA that does not have the same clinical site setup that SGU has.

    I think you're avoiding what I had been asking earlier and you're doing so because you know the answer would turn anybody away from MUA and similar schools like MUA. The question I had asked was how many students who START at MUA actually match in four years. I could care less if MUA can put together a match list each year. That doesn't tell me, the prospective student, anything about where I will end up in four years or how much debt I might be taking on or if I will actually become a doctor. Some of those people on that list could have entered the match for the second or even third time.

    As far as the DO vs. MD debate, compare any DO match list to MUA's and I think that should put to rest any concerns as to whether DO is inferior to MD. How many EM, Ortho, Rads, does MUA produce being that it is an "MD" program? According to your argument, all DO's should end up in primary care but it appears that all MUA matches are in primary care so can you elaborate on what you mean when you say "better than MD?" Also keep in mind that Caribbean students are IMG's and that has it's own stigma attached to it so I don't know where you are coming up with a DO vs. Caribbean MD comparison in the first place.

    Anyway, if you can provide some stats regarding MUA's incoming classes and their match outcomes, I think a lot of people would find that information useful.

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    don1 is offline Moderator 548 points
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    From my year. I would estimate that 40-50% matched within 4 years of starting. Many in my year took extra time to study for the steps and matched in their 5th year. There were some that dropped out or did not match. It was rare that someone made it all the way through and did not match.

    The biggest different between the success of students, are the students. If you are not a great student or do not know how to study for standardized exams you will do poorly. I current teach senior medical students and residents for a top tier North American academic centre. Some Caribbean students are no different than their North American counterparts, some lack the study skills and drive.

    I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “according to my argument”. I never said anything about DO’s and primary care. I just said I find many DO’s justifying how they are as good or better than MD’s. Some DO’s have an inferiority complex it would seem based on the fact they are not MD’s. I am confident in my training and do not have a positive or negative view of DO’s; I just don’t care and it has no impact on me.

    I am a fellowship trained surgeon who recently started in practice as an attending. No one cares that I went to MUA. In fact no one evens asks me. When I was a junior resident people would ask what medical school I went to. If someone goes to any Caribbean school, you will have to prove yourself at the earlier part of your training. At my level they care more about the residency you completed and which fellowship you went to. As I become a more senior attending people will care more about my outcomes and how well I treat my patients, not so much my training. Also, some of my classmates that went into family medicine are very happy with their decision, and wanted to do that. Some other classmates went into very competitive specialities.

    It is a tough decision deciding where to go and what to do. However, the most important factor in your success is actually you.

    Quote Originally Posted by hopefulmed95 View Post
    Yes, the SGU grad matched but according to them, some of their classmates did not or matched into prelim positions. They said you are essentially working harder as a Caribbean medical student to become a doctor than a student who is in a US program. My friend has a STEP1 of 240 and STEP2 of 252. Those are well above average numbers for that exam and even then they still did not get their #1 spot. According to them, even at SGU, if you make 220, you might end up in primary care. That's SGU, I would actually argue that things would be even harder at a school like MUA that does not have the same clinical site setup that SGU has.

    I think you're avoiding what I had been asking earlier and you're doing so because you know the answer would turn anybody away from MUA and similar schools like MUA. The question I had asked was how many students who START at MUA actually match in four years. I could care less if MUA can put together a match list each year. That doesn't tell me, the prospective student, anything about where I will end up in four years or how much debt I might be taking on or if I will actually become a doctor. Some of those people on that list could have entered the match for the second or even third time.

    As far as the DO vs. MD debate, compare any DO match list to MUA's and I think that should put to rest any concerns as to whether DO is inferior to MD. How many EM, Ortho, Rads, does MUA produce being that it is an "MD" program? According to your argument, all DO's should end up in primary care but it appears that all MUA matches are in primary care so can you elaborate on what you mean when you say "better than MD?" Also keep in mind that Caribbean students are IMG's and that has it's own stigma attached to it so I don't know where you are coming up with a DO vs. Caribbean MD comparison in the first place.

    Anyway, if you can provide some stats regarding MUA's incoming classes and their match outcomes, I think a lot of people would find that information useful.
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    hopefulmed95 is offline Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    From my year. I would estimate that 40-50% matched within 4 years of starting. Many in my year took extra time to study for the steps and matched in their 5th year. There were some that dropped out or did not match. It was rare that someone made it all the way through and did not match.

    The biggest different between the success of students, are the students. If you are not a great student or do not know how to study for standardized exams you will do poorly. I current teach senior medical students and residents for a top tier North American academic centre. Some Caribbean students are no different than their North American counterparts, some lack the study skills and drive.

    I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “according to my argument”. I never said anything about DO’s and primary care. I just said I find many DO’s justifying how they are as good or better than MD’s. Some DO’s have an inferiority complex it would seem based on the fact they are not MD’s. I am confident in my training and do not have a positive or negative view of DO’s; I just don’t care and it has no impact on me.

    I am a fellowship trained surgeon who recently started in practice as an attending. No one cares that I went to MUA. In fact no one evens asks me. When I was a junior resident people would ask what medical school I went to. If someone goes to any Caribbean school, you will have to prove yourself at the earlier part of your training. At my level they care more about the residency you completed and which fellowship you went to. As I become a more senior attending people will care more about my outcomes and how well I treat my patients, not so much my training. Also, some of my classmates that went into family medicine are very happy with their decision, and wanted to do that. Some other classmates went into very competitive specialities.

    It is a tough decision deciding where to go and what to do. However, the most important factor in your success is actually you.

    With that match rate are you sure you still want to call MUA a "solid" school? If a school here in the US had numbers like that, they would be shut down by the accrediting boards. It's very convenient to say that "it's the students fault" if they don't match but I think you're smart enough (since you're a fellowship trained surgeon who has recently started in practice as an attending) to know that might not necessarily be the reason for those poor numbers.

    I've looked at the MUA match list going back to 2007 and nothing really jumps out at me. There are a few commendable matches sprinkled here and there but it's mostly primary care matches at programs that are not competitive or those that rely on IMG's to fill their openings. I know a lot of those New York programs and those are all positions filled by FMG's and IMG's.

    I know you're doing your part to sell MUA and I applaud you for your efforts but you're not selling me on the school. To me, MUA looks like a big risk. To be fair, so do a lot of the other Caribbean programs.

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    don1 is offline Moderator 548 points
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    I am not trying to sell you on MUA. You have to decide what is best for your training. I am simply answering your questions from my perspective having gone through the process. You are correct that Caribbean school education can be risky, especially for weaker students which may get accepted.

    Yes I am calling mua a solid school. MUA is accredited in the US including California. No US board is shutting down the MUA. Why would they shut it down if they approved the school and most students continue their residency training in the United States. That said, MUA is not an American medical school and is not located in the United States. If someone is accepted to a medical school in the United States, do not go to any Caribbean medical school. DO schools are not American MD schools. Just like Caribbean medical schools, DO school are usually attended by people who could not get into a North American medical school.

    I can say with experience and certainty that if someone doesn’t do well at an established medical school, it has more to do with the student than the school. If MUA was located in the United States they would have more competitive applicants and a higher 4 year match rate.

    The obvious goal is to get into a North American medical school. Lots of very competitive students who deserve to be in an North American medical school do not get accepted; those do well at a Caribbean school or a DO school.

    It is a tough decision choosing schools, etc. Although I may not agree with some of your conclusions it is good you are researching your options so you know what you are signing up for.

    Quote Originally Posted by hopefulmed95 View Post
    With that match rate are you sure you still want to call MUA a "solid" school? If a school here in the US had numbers like that, they would be shut down by the accrediting boards. It's very convenient to say that "it's the students fault" if they don't match but I think you're smart enough (since you're a fellowship trained surgeon who has recently started in practice as an attending) to know that might not necessarily be the reason for those poor numbers.

    I've looked at the MUA match list going back to 2007 and nothing really jumps out at me. There are a few commendable matches sprinkled here and there but it's mostly primary care matches at programs that are not competitive or those that rely on IMG's to fill their openings. I know a lot of those New York programs and those are all positions filled by FMG's and IMG's.

    I know you're doing your part to sell MUA and I applaud you for your efforts but you're not selling me on the school. To me, MUA looks like a big risk. To be fair, so do a lot of the other Caribbean programs.
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    hopefulmed95 is offline Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    I am not trying to sell you on MUA. You have to decide what is best for your training. I am simply answering your questions from my perspective having gone through the process. You are correct that Caribbean school education can be risky, especially for weaker students which may get accepted.

    Yes I am calling mua a solid school. MUA is accredited in the US including California. No US board is shutting down the MUA. Why would they shut it down if they approved the school and most students continue their residency training in the United States. That said, MUA is not an American medical school and is not located in the United States. If someone is accepted to a medical school in the United States, do not go to any Caribbean medical school. DO schools are not American MD schools. Just like Caribbean medical schools, DO school are usually attended by people who could not get into a North American medical school.

    I can say with experience and certainty that if someone doesn’t do well at an established medical school, it has more to do with the student than the school. If MUA was located in the United States they would have more competitive applicants and a higher 4 year match rate.

    The obvious goal is to get into a North American medical school. Lots of very competitive students who deserve to be in an North American medical school do not get accepted; those do well at a Caribbean school or a DO school.

    It is a tough decision choosing schools, etc. Although I may not agree with some of your conclusions it is good you are researching your options so you know what you are signing up for.
    Uh, are you familiar with the LCME? If you are saying only 40-50% of MUA's students are successfully matching after four years, then I can promise you MUA would be shut down, locked up, and the keys thrown away if it was a school operating in the US. So I'm not too sure what you mean by "solid school" unless you can explain otherwise. Is it solid because some people match? That's like saying the Boeing 737Max is a solid aircraft because some didn't crash.

    DO schools are North American medical schools. I'm not sure you completely understand DO and MD which I find concerning being that you are a "fellowship trained surgeon who has recently started in practice as an attending."

    You're saying weak students will not do well at MUA but you are also saying MUA is accepting weak students. So if MUA knows that weak students won't do well in their program, why do they accept them in the first place? Isn't that unethical then?

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    With all due respect, why would we be trying to sell you on MUA? That would be wrong. We're not representatives of mua, we are only past students. But we are also proud and grateful TOWARD MUA. You need to do your own statistics, so you feel comfortable. And of course there are always hidden variables like you mentioned. No path you take is going to be any kind of guarantee. Maybe you could also get more information and feedback from the MUA Facebook page. I believe that is more currently active. A very small % of MUA students post here. Good luck

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