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Thread: Can someone explain a few things about the MUA residency appointment list?

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Can someone explain a few things about the MUA residency appointment list?

    I just saw MUA posted their 2018 residency appointment list (several weeks after some other schools) and I wanted to know a few things.

    1. Is there a way to find out how many students on the list matched on their first attempt?
    2. How many of those students completed the program in four years?
    3. I saw Johns Hopkins surgery for two years but is that a categorical or prelim position?
    4. How many of those "residency appointments" are a result of the NRMP match and how many are appointments outside of the match?


    The match/residency list is very important in making a decision to attend an offshore school but it also needs to provide a lot more information than just a bunch of locations which I believe only satisfy the most naive of people who are not familiar with for-profit education. In all fairness, all these Caribbean schools are like that. SGU is the only school that provides actual student names with each match which can be useful if you go to that school or know people from that school.

    I personally don't think the Caribbean is as bad a route as the Caribbean-haters or idiots on SDN would have you believe. I personally know more successful graduates than unsuccessful candidates so I am of the belief that you can succeed down the Caribbean route. Now which route you choose to take is quite another story and that is why I want to know if we can decipher the MUA residency appointment list in a little more detail. The IMG match as a whole seems to be improving or has at least remained somewhat steady for the past several years. I do believe however that matching is very involved and the prospective student just does not have enough information at their disposal to know what it really takes to match into a program from these schools. We're obviously never going to know what kind of scores these students have or what connections they have but the questions I listed above should help put a little more perspective on the list as it currently exists.

    Thanks
    Last edited by drjohn1990; 04-07-2018 at 09:18 AM. Reason: punctuation error

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranges12 View Post
    The Johns Hopkins prelim advanced into their categorical program I believe. I know the guy - he's very enthusiastic, motivated, and hard-working.

    And I would imagine that most of the people that matched did so on their first attempt, and most of them completed the program in 4 years. The number you'd really want to know is how many people didn't match, and that would be the scariest statistic for these Caribbean schools if they had to publish it.
    Indeed, you are correct. There is a PGY-2 from MUA at Hopkins. That is quite an accomplishment but I wish I knew more about his story and how he got that spot because MUA does not really have a large network of clinical locations.

    Yes, it would be nice to know how many did not match and I don't expect to ever get the right number. All I know is MUA has been around since 1998 which means MUA should have been producing MD's since 2002 or 2003 but I have been having a hard time Googling MUA grads. One or two pop up here and there but I'm guessing the school should have a couple thousand grads by now. Where are they?

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    Oranges12 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    Indeed, you are correct. There is a PGY-2 from MUA at Hopkins. That is quite an accomplishment but I wish I knew more about his story and how he got that spot because MUA does not really have a large network of clinical locations.

    Yes, it would be nice to know how many did not match and I don't expect to ever get the right number. All I know is MUA has been around since 1998 which means MUA should have been producing MD's since 2002 or 2003 but I have been having a hard time Googling MUA grads. One or two pop up here and there but I'm guessing the school should have a couple thousand grads by now. Where are they?
    There isn't much to the story. He matched into the prelim spot and did a great job and they took him for the categorical position. Prelim surgery is the least competitive specialty in the country, but those who are willing to do the extra year and use it to their advantage can go a long way.

    With regards to your second question, I can't imagine it being easy to find grads from any school unless you know where to look. Why not just look at the match lists?

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranges12 View Post
    There isn't much to the story. He matched into the prelim spot and did a great job and they took him for the categorical position. Prelim surgery is the least competitive specialty in the country, but those who are willing to do the extra year and use it to their advantage can go a long way.

    With regards to your second question, I can't imagine it being easy to find grads from any school unless you know where to look. Why not just look at the match lists?
    Wow, I thought FM, Adolescent Psych, or Peds were the least competitive. I did not know prelim surgery was that low actually. There are a lot of SGU people that take prelim surgery too. There's some blog out there about an SGU grad who took the prelim surgery spot and also got a categorical spot. My understanding is that whole process is quite stressful until actually getting that categorical spot.

    I guess you're right about it being hard to find specific grads but when I type in lets say "anesthesiology+medical university of the americas Nevis" I get no hits. So that just leads me to believe there aren't even a handful of MUA grads who went into anesthesia. You can do that for almost all specialties and it's just so hard to find anyone from MUA or Medical University of the Americas or Medical University of the Americas Nevis West Indies.

    A school like SGU has a rather robust alumni section and I can see that they try to let prospective students know about their graduates success. MUA has a story of one of their grads opening up a ganja clinic.

    It would be nice to read about more successful MUA grads because, like I said earlier, there should be over a 1500 by now. Where are they?

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    Oranges12 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    Wow, I thought FM, Adolescent Psych, or Peds were the least competitive. I did not know prelim surgery was that low actually. There are a lot of SGU people that take prelim surgery too. There's some blog out there about an SGU grad who took the prelim surgery spot and also got a categorical spot. My understanding is that whole process is quite stressful until actually getting that categorical spot.

    I guess you're right about it being hard to find specific grads but when I type in lets say "anesthesiology+medical university of the americas Nevis" I get no hits. So that just leads me to believe there aren't even a handful of MUA grads who went into anesthesia. You can do that for almost all specialties and it's just so hard to find anyone from MUA or Medical University of the Americas or Medical University of the Americas Nevis West Indies.

    A school like SGU has a rather robust alumni section and I can see that they try to let prospective students know about their graduates success. MUA has a story of one of their grads opening up a ganja clinic.

    It would be nice to read about more successful MUA grads because, like I said earlier, there should be over a 1500 by now. Where are they?
    Well actually MUA requests us to allow them to put our profile on their website after we match, but the vast majority of us reject it, including myself. Personally, I was fed up with the entire process and felt like the school did little to help me other than provide an avenue to achieve my goals, and that's why myself and many of my friends didn't do this. There are of course several hundred people that have attained residency through MUA, and the school would like nothing more than to plaster us all over their website, but most of us just aren't allowing it.

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    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    that is a good point O12. I have a lot of friends that graduated with me and didn't update MUA. some of them even went into impressive subspecialties.

    I also didn't realize prelim Surg was the least competitive. I would imagine that a prelim spot would be a hard life and crazy busy.

    In regards to anesthesia grad, I know of one personally who graduated from residency and went on to do a pain fellowship. I doubt he goes on valued. I'm sure there are more but I don't them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oranges12 View Post
    Well actually MUA requests us to allow them to put our profile on their website after we match, but the vast majority of us reject it, including myself. Personally, I was fed up with the entire process and felt like the school did little to help me other than provide an avenue to achieve my goals, and that's why myself and many of my friends didn't do this. There are of course several hundred people that have attained residency through MUA, and the school would like nothing more than to plaster us all over their website, but most of us just aren't allowing it.
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    Oranges12 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Yeah, 149 of 311 prelim surgery programs didn't fill in 2017 if you look at the statistics (which I cannot link to as I do not have 20 posts on this forum after all these years lol). Not sure why it's so uncompetitive, but probably because people that need to do a preliminary year want to stay as far away from a surgery residency as possible and choose medicine instead as it's perceived to be easier.

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    that is a good point O12. I have a lot of friends that graduated with me and didn't update MUA. some of them even went into impressive subspecialties.

    I also didn't realize prelim Surg was the least competitive. I would imagine that a prelim spot would be a hard life and crazy busy.

    In regards to anesthesia grad, I know of one personally who graduated from residency and went on to do a pain fellowship. I doubt he goes on valued. I'm sure there are more but I don't them.
    No offense man but shouldn't you already know this if you are a physician?

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranges12 View Post
    Well actually MUA requests us to allow them to put our profile on their website after we match, but the vast majority of us reject it, including myself. Personally, I was fed up with the entire process and felt like the school did little to help me other than provide an avenue to achieve my goals, and that's why myself and many of my friends didn't do this. There are of course several hundred people that have attained residency through MUA, and the school would like nothing more than to plaster us all over their website, but most of us just aren't allowing it.
    That is interesting to know. I don't think it's a good thing to feel that way about a school though. What could MUA have done differently so that you and others would be more willing to let them share in your success as a physician?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    You're stating the obvious.

    My question was in reference to which Caribbean school gives you the best shot at succeeding...CONSIDERING the risk you have mentioned.

    My argument is that the Caribbean match lists, MUA in this case, are deceiving.

    Sorry if that was too obvious to be of any distinct value for you. I was not replying to the original post... rather, I was replying specifically to the comment that was quoted at the top in my post. I have no direct experience with MUA, although I agree that many Carib institutions play it fast and loose with the facts on a whoooole bunch of issues. For someone who is dead set on going the Carib route, despite the aforementioned risks involved, I would only recommend going to the Big 3-slash-4 (whichever it is now) and being fully prepared for the slog.

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    Oranges12 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Actually I'd think a majority of doctors don't know that prelim surgery is the least competitive as most people don't even consider it as an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    That is interesting to know. I don't think it's a good thing to feel that way about a school though. What could MUA have done differently so that you and others would be more willing to let them share in your success as a physician?
    I mean I personally just don't like my face or my info being plastered on the internet, as do a lot of others. The problems with the school are a long story, and maybe they have fixed some of those things (I finished over 2 years ago). But like said above, go to the big 3/4. MUA should be a last resort as it was for me.

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