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Thread: MUA kicking students out after passing comprehensive shelf exam? - 2014!!

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    2014notthere is offline Newbie 510 points
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    MUA kicking students out after passing comprehensive shelf exam? - 2014!!

    hey guys, just needed a suggestion. I was planning to apply to MUA for next semester to start medical school. However, I heard from a distant relative that MUA recently kicked about 20 or so students out even after passing the comprehensive shelf exam? is this true?

    MUA changed the contract for their students behind their backs and automatically made them comply to new contract rules. up until last year students would take 6 or even 8 months to take step 1 examination. Ive heard that this year they didnt notify the students of their policy changes and automatically kicked students out of the school after 120 days (4 months) of not taking step 1?


    is there any truth to this? I need to confirm this with more people, because there is no way i am going to this school if the school administration is being so sneaky and changing contracts behind students backs!!!!

    someone please confirm this news with me, i need to make a decision soon, either MUA or AUA. I'd rather go to AUA if this is true!

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    Those are all very good points that you bring up, and ultimately it is a risk that you take to go to a Caribbean or foreign medical school. I do believe that in trying to analyze by statistics, you have to remember to compare yourself two students who are of the same skill and dedication level and maturity As You Are. That can be tough to do from a statistical standpoint, so to some degree you rise up into the upper percentiles of the statistics by being an above-average student. I know that's not very scientific, but I think that it's true. And if you have that anxiety and fire under your ***, you will be able to make it work. Ultimately you have to choose the best school for you, and I really wish you all the luck.
    MUA finished.
    Psychiatry residency finished.
    Staff psychiatrist. Hidden Content

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    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    I think you missing some good points. First, match list does matter a lot. Yeah first time match is important but knowing what/where students are matching to is important.

    MUA and every other Caribbean medical school is taking some what of a risk on students it accepts on if they will be successful. Your success ultimately based on you. Most of my friends matched, but some didn't. Just because has a great record of matches doesn't mean everyone is going to match. The important thing is that the school is real and has a match list that reflects matching is not a rare thing for their students.

    I think MUA and other schools are selective of the information they give because they all want to show their plus sides. This happens in nearly every industry and having gone through the process medical training I can say that nearly all the schools have some skeletons in the closet. If a school decided to post negative stats they could be perceived as worse than another school that is known to be a lower quality school.

    Regarding step score, i would think that larger school have higher scores because they are likely to get more quality applicants wanting to go to those schools. For example, a place like Harvard medical school has great step scores because the high quality students not that they have some magical educational formula they use.

    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    Unfortunately, the reason why I peruse these forums is that the school has proven to be anything but a better source for this type of information. I called the office in Massachusetts twice and they are not forthcoming with the statistics I had listed earlier. All they basically talk about are the different curriculum's and life on the island. They let me know the average age of the entering class, the class size, and that the MCAT was not used in admissions decisions but that's not information that is really helpful in making the decision to attend with the intention of becoming an MD.

    I understand that you guys might be trying to help us new students out but based on various data, it would be reasonable to conclude that matching as an IMG today is significantly harder than it was even a decade ago where there were more positions for IMG's to take. In this situation, we need to really know how MUA is currently performing today and I really can't find that information anywhere or from anyone and I don't know why it's so hard to find that information. A match list tells me absolutely nothing when you think about it. If all those match's are on their second or third try, then that's not a school that I would want to go to. I'm not saying that is the case but MUA is not exactly telling me that it isn't either.

    The two numbers I really want to know are their comp shelf pass rate for their med 5 class and their average USMLE STEP 1 and STEP 2 CK scores. I can gauge all I need to know from those numbers.

    I totally understand the for-profit aspect and how that works but I don't think it's fair to say that the school is still a great school even if it has an attrition rate that might be around 50% which takes into account all those students who "don't' really have either the maturity or the skills together to be able to consistently land residency spots." My argument would be that if MUA was such a great school, why does it need to resort to selecting those types of students in the first place?

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    I think you missing some good points. First, match list does matter a lot. Yeah first time match is important but knowing what/where students are matching to is important.

    MUA and every other Caribbean medical school is taking some what of a risk on students it accepts on if they will be successful. Your success ultimately based on you. Most of my friends matched, but some didn't. Just because has a great record of matches doesn't mean everyone is going to match. The important thing is that the school is real and has a match list that reflects matching is not a rare thing for their students.

    I think MUA and other schools are selective of the information they give because they all want to show their plus sides. This happens in nearly every industry and having gone through the process medical training I can say that nearly all the schools have some skeletons in the closet. If a school decided to post negative stats they could be perceived as worse than another school that is known to be a lower quality school.

    Regarding step score, i would think that larger school have higher scores because they are likely to get more quality applicants wanting to go to those schools. For example, a place like Harvard medical school has great step scores because the high quality students not that they have some magical educational formula they use.
    Hi don1,

    There is so much wrong with your post that I don't even want to respond to it. Please don't use Harvard and MUA in the same sentence next time; that's apples to oranges. Not appropriate for a Caribbean medical school thread.

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    scolari66 is offline Junior Member 512 points
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    Dr. John, although I support your efforts, be careful asking too many questions about MUA.
    There is a house in Haiti that people have been taken to, "curious" folks like you have been transformed into mere vegetables with Haitian Zombie Powder.

    Clairvius Narcisse was a "curious" student said to have been turned into a zombie by a Haitian vodou preparation, purportedly a combination of psychoactive substances ...Clairvius asked too many questions. Despite good study habits, he never graduated from MUA.

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    Oranges12 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    I totally understand the for-profit aspect and how that works but I don't think it's fair to say that the school is still a great school even if it has an attrition rate that might be around 50% which takes into account all those students who "don't' really have either the maturity or the skills together to be able to consistently land residency spots." My argument would be that if MUA was such a great school, why does it need to resort to selecting those types of students in the first place?
    Well the simple answer is that MUA is a pretty bad school overall. They're never gonna give you the statistics. The comp shelf pass rate for my class was something like 35% if I recall correctly. Maybe 30% of the people I started with (2012) have matched into residency now. It's just one long uphill battle that you have to fight alone. I'm not sure what your options are, but if you're not willing to put the world on your shoulders and get a move on, then medical school in the Caribbean is not the way to go.

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranges12 View Post
    Well the simple answer is that MUA is a pretty bad school overall. They're never gonna give you the statistics. The comp shelf pass rate for my class was something like 35% if I recall correctly. Maybe 30% of the people I started with (2012) have matched into residency now. It's just one long uphill battle that you have to fight alone. I'm not sure what your options are, but if you're not willing to put the world on your shoulders and get a move on, then medical school in the Caribbean is not the way to go.
    Hi,

    Thank you for your honesty. This is the type of information that could help someone make a more educated decision about the school. 30% is not a good number...for most anything and I'm not surprised. I hear SGU has a much higher real attrition rate than they are publishing so I'm not surprised at 30% for MUA.

    As for me, I was looking at SGU but it's very expensive so it's a big gamble. MUA was the least expensive of the schools with title IV so I thought it could be an option. There's not a whole lot of info on MUA other than a few threads here on VMD and a few on SDN but SDN is just a strange place to ask for info for some reason. I'm not considering other schools. I have a friend at AUA who says it's pretty rough over there so that was a turn off. Between SGU and Ross, I'd just focus on SGU.

    The thing with the Caribbean is that we all think we are going to be the best student and make it out of the program and become a doctor but apparently it's not as easy as that. Honestly, you won't know till you try it out but it costs a lot of money to "try it out."
    Last edited by drjohn1990; 03-16-2018 at 10:04 AM. Reason: spelling error

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    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    drjohn1990. do you go to medical school? are you a doctor like your name suggests? Actually the word Harvard and MUA are not in the same sentence. read carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    Hi don1,

    There is so much wrong with your post that I don't even want to respond to it. Please don't use Harvard and MUA in the same sentence next time; that's apples to oranges. Not appropriate for a Caribbean medical school thread.

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    Oranges12 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjohn1990 View Post
    Hi,

    Thank you for your honesty. This is the type of information that could help someone make a more educated decision about the school. 30% is not a good number...for most anything and I'm not surprised. I hear SGU has a much higher real attrition rate than they are publishing so I'm not surprised at 30% for MUA.

    As for me, I was looking at SGU but it's very expensive so it's a big gamble. MUA was the least expensive of the schools with title IV so I thought it could be an option. There's not a whole lot of info on MUA other than a few threads here on VMD and a few on SDN but SDN is just a strange place to ask for info for some reason. I'm not considering other schools. I have a friend at AUA who says it's pretty rough over there so that was a turn off. Between SGU and Ross, I'd just focus on SGU.

    The thing with the Caribbean is that we all think we are going to be the best student and make it out of the program and become a doctor but apparently it's not as easy as that. Honestly, you won't know till you try it out but it costs a lot of money to "try it out."
    I disagree with the notion that SGU is a gamble because of its price. I would argue that MUA is a much larger gamble because you can do everything right and still not match simply because of the school's name, or lack thereof. Since SGU and Ross have so many alumni, more and more of the country has been exposed to them and so programs are more inclined to hand out interviews to people that went to those schools because they are more likely to have a history with a resident or residents that graduated from those schools. I scored in the 240s on Step 1, and 250s on Step 2, and didn't manage many interviews despite applying IM and FM (though keep in mind I required a J1 visa). Someone from Ross or SGU with those scores would be getting so many interviews they'd have to cancel some.

    All of these schools are a gamble. But keep this in mind - at SGU if you get to the end of the road, you will likely match. If you fail out, you'll likely fail out early. At MUA, you can get to the end of the road and still be in serious trouble when it comes to matching.

    And yes, it is getting harder to match. If I had to do this this all over again at either school, I would go to SGU because your future is much safer there.
    Last edited by Oranges12; 03-16-2018 at 12:31 PM.

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    drjohn1990. do you go to medical school? are you a doctor like your name suggests? Actually the word Harvard and MUA are not in the same sentence. read carefully.
    Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. But you know what I meant.

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    drjohn1990 is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranges12 View Post
    I disagree with the notion that SGU is a gamble because of its price. I would argue that MUA is a much larger gamble because you can do everything right and still not match simply because of the school's name, or lack thereof. Since SGU and Ross have so many alumni, more and more of the country has been exposed to them and so programs are more inclined to hand out interviews to people that went to those schools because they are more likely to have a history with a resident or residents that graduated from those schools. I scored in the 240s on Step 1, and 250s on Step 2, and managed only 7 interviews in IM and FM (though keep in mind I required a J1 visa). Someone from Ross or SGU with those scores would be getting so many interviews they'd have to cancel some.

    All of these schools are a gamble. But keep this in mind - at SGU if you get to the end of the road, you will likely match. If you fail out, you'll likely fail out early. At MUA, you can get to the end of the road and still be in serious trouble when it comes to matching.

    And yes, it is getting harder to match. If I had to do this this all over again at either school, I would go to SGU because your future is much safer there.
    That's prophetic man lol. The number is 30 actually. I have a friend with similar scores (lower STEP 2) who got 30 IM interviews from SGU. He actually found out where he matched today ironically. Thanks for the honesty. I think I'm going to focus on SGU.

    I feel that even with a 220 STEP1 you should match somewhere but I don't feel comfortable that MUA or a school in that bracket can help you in achieving that unless you score ridiculously high and that is not attainable by just anyone. I don't think the average student understands this process like they should. You can't just go to a Caribbean medical school and pass. It's much more than that and I think you explained that well in your post.

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