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Thread: MUA kicking students out after passing comprehensive shelf exam? - 2014!!

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    2014notthere is offline Newbie 510 points
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    MUA kicking students out after passing comprehensive shelf exam? - 2014!!

    hey guys, just needed a suggestion. I was planning to apply to MUA for next semester to start medical school. However, I heard from a distant relative that MUA recently kicked about 20 or so students out even after passing the comprehensive shelf exam? is this true?

    MUA changed the contract for their students behind their backs and automatically made them comply to new contract rules. up until last year students would take 6 or even 8 months to take step 1 examination. Ive heard that this year they didnt notify the students of their policy changes and automatically kicked students out of the school after 120 days (4 months) of not taking step 1?


    is there any truth to this? I need to confirm this with more people, because there is no way i am going to this school if the school administration is being so sneaky and changing contracts behind students backs!!!!

    someone please confirm this news with me, i need to make a decision soon, either MUA or AUA. I'd rather go to AUA if this is true!

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    medmedstudent is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by doc2be1day View Post
    I'm not sure what's really changed because even in 2009 MUA had a policy that students could take a year and 3 attempts to pass the Step I, but the first month had to be in the first 3 months. Not taking at least one attempt in the first 3 months without some kind of prior approval was grounds for dismissal and published in the clinical promotions guidelines. Therefore it was university policy and legal. If they actually changed it to 4 months (I don't know) then it have become more liberal, not less.

    And Ross is now trying to get students to take the Step I within weeks of taking the Comp after semester 4. That way the whole of semester 5 can be spent studying ICM and all their clinical rotations will be arranged by the time they finish the semester and can start without delay. Ross' pass rate went up to 97% last year, so less delay seems to work better.

    (1) … agree that I will take the USMLE Step 1 Exam within 120 days of completing Basic Sciences requirements (successful completion of the NBME Comprehensive Subjects Exam). If I fail to do so I will be subject to being placed on Academic Probation. I further understand that if I have not successfully passed the Step 1 exam within three (3) attempts and/or 12 months of completing Basic Sciences that my file will be forwarded to the Promotions Committee for review and I will be subject to dismissal.

    Direct quote from student handbook and student contract. 120 days or probation...1 year for dismissal.

    Ross wanting students to take it at a certain time and MUA dismissing students is a different matter.

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    medmedstudent is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Fact is 20+ students were dismissed out of 70 last week. This is not a couple students getting dismissed here or there for whatever reason. This is 30% of the class. 20 Students who passed all 5 semesters of basic sciences. Each invested $60,000 in tuition alone. $60,000 x 20 students. MUA made a nice $1.2 million by dismissing students without warning.

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    SPODAT's Avatar
    SPODAT is offline Senior Member 520 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by doc2be1day View Post
    I'm not sure what's really changed because even in 2009 MUA had a policy that students could take a year and 3 attempts to pass the Step I, but the first month had to be in the first 3 months. Not taking at least one attempt in the first 3 months without some kind of prior approval was grounds for dismissal and published in the clinical promotions guidelines. Therefore it was university policy and legal. If they actually changed it to 4 months (I don't know) then it have become more liberal, not less.
    Well that's really interesting. doctobe1day did their homework. I guess my point, at this point, is that it's not unreasonable or a bad idea as a policy, not that it's right to be dismissed. And I guess my "life lessons" didn't go over very well. - I forgot the 1 year/3 attempts rule, there's been so much life in between. But I don't think they didn't know about it to begin with. My guess is that MUA just decided to start enforcing it, the same as they decided to start enforcing the compshelf on my class (2008). It was hellish, it felt wrong, that the previous classes got off much easier and rarely ever were held back. And this won't go well, but in the spirit of truth for all readers, there are some people who use VMD as a soapbox for their grievances, and you generally only hear one side.
    MUA finished.
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    medmedstudent is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPODAT View Post
    Well that's really interesting. doctobe1day did their homework. I guess my point, at this point, is that it's not unreasonable or a bad idea as a policy, not that it's right to be dismissed. And I guess my "life lessons" didn't go over very well. - I forgot the 1 year/3 attempts rule, there's been so much life in between. But I don't think they didn't know about it to begin with. My guess is that MUA just decided to start enforcing it, the same as they decided to start enforcing the compshelf on my class (2008). It was hellish, it felt wrong, that the previous classes got off much easier and rarely ever were held back. And this won't go well, but in the spirit of truth for all readers, there are some people who use VMD as a soapbox for their grievances, and you generally only hear one side.
    I have never bashed the school. I have not once mentioned all the weakness and bad things about the school. The guy heard a rumor about the school asked an important question and I answered. I am a current student in 2014. You are making statements from 6 years ago. I have provided screenshots and links to articles. I have provided hard evidence. This happened 2 weeks ago not 6 years ago. There are new deans, even since I started. There is also new ownership.

    The students were Never told. Why do you think 20+ of 70 students were dismissed.

    Your comp comparison is not accurate. Again Im sure your class had 3 chances to write comp. Your example is like getting an extra assignment that noone else ever had to do. Our class had stuff like that too. This is a matter in which WHILE doing an assignment many people were dismissed cause deadline was changed by 2/3rds without warning

    Again I have never bashed the school. I am not bitter. Please don't spread misinformation from 18 semesters ago.

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    scolari66 is offline Junior Member 512 points
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    Sounds like Breach of Contract to me.
    Bravo to the student who went to talk to attorney to discuss the contract.
    MUA is taking refuge in a legal "no-man's land" between St. Kitts
    and Massachusetts, hoping they cannot be sued, or challenged, and only lawyers and local Gov't officials are going to be able to bring an end to the all contract breaches and deceit
    of late. I've heard there's a lawyer on Kitts, first named Garth, who knows about what's going on. Also Scantlebury. Let's talk straight, these are dark days for MUA. Time for some obvious changes.

  7. #26
    SPODAT's Avatar
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    MedMEd,
    For me, since I really researched med schools on ValueMD and another forum, posting on this forum is about information, giving back to others who shared with me. It's not about who's right or wrong, or been wronged. Anybody with maturity knows there's always 2 sides to a story, and nothing is simple, and no person or institution is perfect. Hence the silly comment "dark days for MUA", by another poster, I have to say, is very suspect.

    To respond, every med5 had to take a "get off the Island exam", MUA just never enforced it. By "get off the Island", it meant, to be able to take step 1. About 3 chances, Yes, I believe, 3 before you were dismissed, but not 3 before leaving the Island. Those who didn't pass the first time, at end of med 5, had to go back down there, at end of the next term, for try #2 and 3. IF still failing, then they typically transferred to Windsor or the other St. Kitts school, and did ok. The absolute enforcement policy, with a minimum I think around 65 give or take a little, with an actual comprehensive NBME shelf exam (as opposed to a Kaplan exam which they used before), brought a very tough time to our class. Only 45% of us passed the comp on that first time around.

    MUA is a business, and I've never been treated unfairly by them, and don't personally know anyone who has. I've read about it on here. Rules change, like they did in my residency, and it really hurt, so I know how it is. It just seems hard to believe that these people who were dismissed had no warning? I've been through med school with MUA, then the match (which is a considerable amount of cooperation you need from them), then licensing (another huge hurdle) in 2 states (1 being a state MUA has never had a grad license in before, another huge step), a job application (which they cooperated really nicely with), and they never batted an eye at fulfilling what they said they would do, and more. Nobody is perfect, and anyone reading this should remember to take everything with a grain of salt.

    And as don1 said early in this thread, call MUA and ask them about it. They aren't some shrouded organization. There are real people there who will answer your questions. It may be enlightening. Again, nothing personal about this poster or thread, but it's a "public forum". I've seen so many rumors and mis-information being shared on VMD, that I personally knew was not true, that I'm very suspect of things that don't sound right on here.
    Last edited by SPODAT; 06-07-2014 at 04:35 PM.
    MUA finished.
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    medmedstudent is offline Newbie 511 points
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    This is not some "rumor". Myself and 20+ other students have recently experienced this. I have posted evidence. I can say unequivocally I never received a warning. Even a warning is not sufficient, because it is essentially a breach of contract. I would post more evidence, but I would like to stay anonymous.

    Again Ive stated a new clinical dean was hired several months ago. Your dealings with the school are not relevant to current or future students. Things change fast. There is new ownership at MUA. It is not owned by the same people as SABA anymore. The old owner of MUA & Saba are on trial for defrauding the IRS has fled and is declared a fugitive.

    "Fredrick vanished after the indictment, leaving Hough to face trial alone. U.S. District Judge John Steele, who is overseeing the trial, has declared Fredrick a fugitive."

    hcrenewal.blogspot.ca/2013/10/the-mystery-of-fugitive-founder-and.html (link to information about the trial)



    Also these are quotes from California medical board evaluation about the poor clinical and post clinical MUA environment.

    4) Wide distribution of clinics makes it difficult to monitor mistreatment of students. Student Affairs "department" is being "stretched very thin."
    5) There is no monitoring of graduates for outcomes/performance. And there is no student evaluation of the overall MUA curriculum/experience.

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    medmedstudent is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Fact of the matter is students are paying a ton of money at a CHANCE to become a doctor. Often via pseudo-illegal methods like student loans thru davenport. The fact is that too many students complain cause they failed out or didn't work hard enough which waters-down any real arguments. Fact is a lot of people who enter caribbean medical schools wont make it as doctors (my class of 120 ended up with 50). But to kick out students who have done nothing wrong is just plain wrong. 20 students, $1.2 million, not even given a chance to write the Step1. They school wont even given extensions when the ECFMG requests it. They deny students. Its ridiculous.

    Contracts and policies exist for a reason. Yes MUA may not have screwed you over. The police have never screwed me over in my life, does that mean that there is no possible way Rodney king was ever victimized by the same group of people. (yes extreme example, but you get my point)

    The comp exam is standard throughout caribbean medical schools. Being DISMISSED for not writing shelf exam within 120days, when students signed a contract that said they had one year is simply not. It is a breach of contract which is illegal.
    Last edited by medmedstudent; 06-07-2014 at 05:08 PM.

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    SPODAT's Avatar
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    I hope things get better for you and the rest.
    MUA finished.
    Psychiatry residency finished.
    Staff psychiatrist. Hidden Content

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    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    I agree that the fact remains that 20+ students were dismissed and it sound like they didn't have much warning.

    I doubt money has anything to do with it. If it did, MUA would collect easy money by sending students into rotations and collection tuition. another way to look at it is that MUA lost out on about 1.2 million of revenue by this decision.

    I agree with Spodat.

    Quote Originally Posted by medmedstudent View Post
    Fact is 20+ students were dismissed out of 70 last week. This is not a couple students getting dismissed here or there for whatever reason. This is 30% of the class. 20 Students who passed all 5 semesters of basic sciences. Each invested $60,000 in tuition alone. $60,000 x 20 students. MUA made a nice $1.2 million by dismissing students without warning.

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