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  1. #1
    kjaggi is offline Newbie 510 points
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    MUA vs. AUC- all details appreicated.

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    Hi there,
    Im new on ValueMd (in terms of posting), so I apologize if I didn't post something in the correct place.

    Im currently debating between MUA and AUC. I got into Ross (number 1 choice for caribb), however, for the January session, and Im no longer taking that option.

    I know that AUC has been around for longer, but looking at their match list, most of their students get matched in the states. Just wondering if its harder to get into CANADA from AUC. Looking at the MUA match list, there seems to be a lot of Canadian residency matches (with good hospitals/schools; UOFT, ALBERTA, MAC, etc).

    I know that MUA is relatively new compared to the other 4 big schools (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba)
    I would really appreciate the help from both sides.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    MrEven is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    You got into Ross? Go there. You get loans and 50 state approval.

  3. #3
    Terp13 is offline Member 537 points
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    I think the OP wants to go back to Canada in which case the licensing doesn't matter AFAIK but the federal loans of Ross are an added advantage and it depends on what specialty you are thinking of entering. MUA is a good school but not many really competitive residencies from there. If you can give more details KJaggi then I can help you out better.

  4. #4
    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjaggi View Post
    Hi there,
    Im new on ValueMd (in terms of posting), so I apologize if I didn't post something in the correct place.

    Im currently debating between MUA and AUC. I got into Ross (number 1 choice for caribb), however, for the January session, and Im no longer taking that option.

    I know that AUC has been around for longer, but looking at their match list, most of their students get matched in the states. Just wondering if its harder to get into CANADA from AUC. Looking at the MUA match list, there seems to be a lot of Canadian residency matches (with good hospitals/schools; UOFT, ALBERTA, MAC, etc).

    I know that MUA is relatively new compared to the other 4 big schools (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba)
    I would really appreciate the help from both sides.

    Thanks in advance!
    Well if Canada is your primary objective than you should look to Saba....though of course you should try really, really, really hard to stay in Canada, even if it means a masters or doing something for a yr or two to improve your application.

    Otherwise, AUC and Ross both have staffords...and Cali approval
    Endocrinology, Diabetes and Metabolism Attending
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  5. #5
    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    i went to MUA and matched in surgery in Canada. I now participate in the application process for new residents. the school you go to makes little difference when applying to most canadian programs. I was also accepted to ross but picked mua because it cost less and US loans were not helpful to me.

    saba and MUA are very similar, they had the same dean for a while (might be now as well). saba has been around longer, more established, cali approval. mua has better living environement. same tuition, same course structure. similar rotations.

    i agree that you should try very hard to get into canada. but I assume to thought of that already.

  6. #6
    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    i went to MUA and matched in surgery in Canada. I now participate in the application process for new residents. the school you go to makes little difference when applying to most canadian programs. I was also accepted to ross but picked mua because it cost less and US loans were not helpful to me.

    saba and MUA are very similar, they had the same dean for a while (might be now as well). saba has been around longer, more established, cali approval. mua has better living environement. same tuition, same course structure. similar rotations.

    i agree that you should try very hard to get into canada. but I assume to thought of that already.
    and how many other caribbean grads were in that surgery program with you? Or even in that hospital? I am pretty sure the canadian grads far out numbered the foreign ones...its great you were able to get back to canada, but i would be seriously surprised if your (or any) program would match just foreign grads, even if they did have the better stats...

    and you would be surprised at how many people come here thinking, eh, it can't be THAT different...
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  7. #7
    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    there were zero other carb. people who matched into my surgery program. they only had 3 img positions. the others went to students from the UK.

    the way the match system works in canada is very different than the US. in canada the number of IMG positions is posted in advance and ONLY IMG's can apply for those positions. yes ofcouse there are more canadians who matched. not sure the point of that question. IMG's compete with other IMG's in canada, not canadian students.

    do i think anyone who wants to match into canada will match? nope. however, it is far from impossible. my advice to people, do an elective, impress people with your work ethic, interest and knowledge. most IMG elective students don't do that. the school one goes to gives barely any advantage.

    I 100% agree, there are major differences between IMG applicants and Canadian ones. Canadian's pretty much know they will match, just not sure if it will be their top pick. IMG's need to worry more about just matching.



    Quote Originally Posted by rokshana View Post
    and how many other caribbean grads were in that surgery program with you? Or even in that hospital? I am pretty sure the canadian grads far out numbered the foreign ones...its great you were able to get back to canada, but i would be seriously surprised if your (or any) program would match just foreign grads, even if they did have the better stats...

    and you would be surprised at how many people come here thinking, eh, it can't be THAT different...

  8. #8
    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    there were zero other carb. people who matched into my surgery program. they only had 3 img positions. the others went to students from the UK.

    the way the match system works in canada is very different than the US. in canada the number of IMG positions is posted in advance and ONLY IMG's can apply for those positions. yes ofcouse there are more canadians who matched. not sure the point of that question. IMG's compete with other IMG's in canada, not canadian students.

    do i think anyone who wants to match into canada will match? nope. however, it is far from impossible. my advice to people, do an elective, impress people with your work ethic, interest and knowledge. most IMG elective students don't do that. the school one goes to gives barely any advantage.

    I 100% agree, there are major differences between IMG applicants and Canadian ones. Canadian's pretty much know they will match, just not sure if it will be their top pick. IMG's need to worry more about just matching.
    The point was that you are giving a false sense of ease of matching in Canada as an IMG as they are even more IMG unfriendly than the US...while yes, it is POSSIBLE to match, it is not probable for the run of the mill student to do so...MOST canadian graduates of Caribbean schools do their residency in the US and then try to go back to canada...for you to pop on here and say HEY! I'm Canadian and I not only matched in Canada, I matched into surgery! Is not the norm and I imagine you know it...and for you to come on here and say, oh, we don't care what school you went to without pointing out that means in comparison to other foreign grads for the very limited spots allocated to foreign grads is again a bit misleading...

    Better that you give more realistic advice like you did in this post than just say, oh, it's easy to match in Canada...look at me! I imagine you were probably a pretty high achieving student to not only have matched in Canada, but to have matched in surgery to boot.
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  9. #9
    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. why would I imply it is easy then say I agree that people should try very hard to get into canada. other things you say make it seem like you do not understand the match process in canada very clearly. there are dedicated IMG positions only for IMG's. abet not many, no one else but IMG's can apply for those. preference also seems to be given (observing who matchs) to Canadians studying abroad because they adjust better to the culture.

    My main point of chiming in is to express that people should not believe that going to a certain Caribbean school will give you a substantial advantage. To be honest, many Canadian programs look at those who go to any Caribbean school as greatly inferior to those studying medicine in Canada, or the UK for that matter. Student characteristics are more important than which Caribbean school one goes to. It is comical when I see an elective student on my rotations bragging that they go to the biggest Caribbean medical school expecting that to be impressive.

    The reason why Saba has a lot of successful Canadian matches is that overall they attract very smart students. MUA has a slightly higher proportion of weaker students, however still has just as strong students. if a weaker student thinks by going to Saba their improved their odds of matching into Canada, I would disargee with the reasoning. Just my observation from going to MUA and doing clinical rotations with Saba & MUA students.

    Strong students have a good chance of matching in Canada. Weak students are a very low chance. Many of my Canadian classmates who matched into the US did so because they preferred the US or they took a prematch offer which took them out of the Canadian match.

    And yes, if I can do it, others can as well. I worked very hard to get what I have, it was not easy.


    Quote Originally Posted by rokshana View Post
    The point was that you are giving a false sense of ease of matching in Canada as an IMG as they are even more IMG unfriendly than the US...while yes, it is POSSIBLE to match, it is not probable for the run of the mill student to do so...MOST canadian graduates of Caribbean schools do their residency in the US and then try to go back to canada...for you to pop on here and say HEY! I'm Canadian and I not only matched in Canada, I matched into surgery! Is not the norm and I imagine you know it...and for you to come on here and say, oh, we don't care what school you went to without pointing out that means in comparison to other foreign grads for the very limited spots allocated to foreign grads is again a bit misleading...

    Better that you give more realistic advice like you did in this post than just say, oh, it's easy to match in Canada...look at me! I imagine you were probably a pretty high achieving student to not only have matched in Canada, but to have matched in surgery to boot.
    Last edited by don1; 08-14-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  10. #10
    rokshana is offline Member Guru 11644 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by don1 View Post
    I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. why would I imply it is easy then say I agree that people should try very hard to get into canada. other things you say make it seem like you do not understand the match process in canada very clearly. there are dedicated IMG positions only for IMG's. abet not many, no one else but IMG's can apply for those. preference also seems to be given (observing who matchs) to Canadians studying abroad because they adjust better to the culture.

    My main point of chiming in is to express that people should not believe that going to a certain Caribbean school will give you a substantial advantage. To be honest, many Canadian programs look at those who go to any Caribbean school as greatly inferior to those studying medicine in Canada, or the UK for that matter. Student characteristics are more important than which Caribbean school one goes to. It is comical when I see an elective student on my rotations bragging that they go to the biggest Caribbean medical school expecting that to be impressive.

    The reason why Saba has a lot of successful Canadian matches is that overall they attract very smart students. MUA has a slightly higher proportion of weaker students, however still has just as strong students. if a weaker student thinks by going to Saba their improved their odds of matching into Canada, I would disargee with the reasoning. Just my observation from going to MUA and doing clinical rotations with Saba & MUA students.

    Strong students have a good chance of matching in Canada. Weak students are a very low chance. Many of my Canadian classmates who matched into the US did so because they preferred the US or they took a prematch offer which took them out of the Canadian match.

    And yes, if I can do it, others can as well. I worked very hard to get what I have, it was not easy.
    Your 1st post did not reflect that you thought it was difficult to get a spot in a Canadian residency, only later did you say that you need to do extra work to shine to get into a Canadian residency.

    You're right, I don't know extensive details about carms since I had no interest in working in canada, but have friends who have and have seen it discussed here over the years. When I started, FMGs were not even allowed to participate in the 1st iteration of the match, only in the 2nd...now that has changed, but still the fact that their are only certain spots that IMGs can even apply for demonstrates the restrictions placed in the Canadian match...while not realistic, theoretically every US allopathic spot is open to an IMG.

    You're also right I that of the IMGs caribbean grads are gcaribbean grads...not going to make a lick of difference per se, but Saba simply has a higher proportion of their student body coming from Canada and so they try to get into Canadian residencies more than say the typical student at AUC, Ross, or sgu...doesn't mean they are better suited, but programs in Canada may be more familiar with the name Saba because they have had a resident from that school...whether consciously or subconsciously, it can make a difference.
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