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  1. #1
    iMED is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Comp shelf disgrace

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    This semester with wat was dubbed as one of the smartest and most competitive classes ever to go thru MUA. As well as the class that was the first to be be fully under Dean T newly reconstructed criculum, as well as the the class that scored the highest Path shelf score ever in MUA history, took the comp shelf and came back with the worst fail rate in a long time in MUA. 50% (34 failed of the students failed this comp shelf failed the comp shelf as the highest precent ever to fail with 50% of the students failing.
    Now there are many who will say this is just some disgruntled students that are whinning about failing; but this is not the case. WHen students who took the Kaplan pre and post test and scored 55 on them (before teh comp shelf was given kaplans post test required a student to score 45 to pass which was the eqv. of just passing the step1) and then fail the comp shelf, while students who LEFT THE COMP SHELF with 11/2 hr remaining cus they either had not studied and had a hang over or that where already transfering pass somthing is not right. I know for a fact that the school has had the result for the comp shelf since monday 20th of april cus I person called them and went to the office, and was told that the results where in and where being looked at Dr. S. and to come back l8r on that day to get the results. It took atleast a full 5 days after having the results that the school released the them..then we know somthing shaddy is going on. As well students called the NBME and what a surprise we got...MUA according the the admn at the NBME(cant speak for saba or st. mathews but they are owned by same pplso could be same policy) is the only school to not allow their students to have their exams regraded. So once again more shaddness.
    TO those ppl who say that I am only posting this cus I probably failed...id like to let u all know that I passed...but y i write this is cus I kno for a fact that i did not deserve to pass, I had not studied for this comp shelf cus I had already transfered to UMHS(which if u check my posts i have informed all of this prior to even writing the comp shelf), while students who where way more prepared and def. without a doubt should have passed did not.
    My reasons for posting this is cus ppl as spending allot of money to come to a med school and its not fair to be screwed over by a admin that is dishost with students...If the anyone has issues with what i have written then tell the MUA admin to allow students to allow their exams to be regraded and then lets see how many ppl truly fail...BUT we all know that will never happen...

  2. #2
    SPODAT's Avatar
    SPODAT is offline Senior Member 520 points
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    TO ALL READING... this is not as simple as it appears on the surface. There are so many factors involved in passing and not, these issues need time to sort out. And I doubt MUA will issue an official statement on every crisis that arises. I think this bears some looking into.

    Who would "re-grade" the test? Does NBME offer that? I've never heard of re-grading tests?

    I'd really caution giving MUA a "shady" reputation over this. There is always controversy over the comp shelf. Our class, Aug 08, had about 66% pass?

    Can some more students who took this shelf comment here?

  3. #3
    enigma00183 is offline Member 510 points
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    Allright, I'm not sure if this makes any difference to the statistics that the OP posted, but this is what was posted on our own internal website:

    IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING THE COMPREHENSIVE SHELF SCORES

    The statistics program on the posting board is inaccurate. Your score is accurate, but the grade breakdown (#'s of A,B,C,F) is NOT.

    We apologize for any anxiety generated.

    The date for the next administration of the Comprehensive Shelf is July 7th, 2009.

  4. #4
    JRama is offline Newbie 510 points
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    iMED, I can't make heads or tails of your post. If you are going to post what is likely to be a highly contentious topic I would suggest you look at your grammar, spelling and formatting. It would certainly add more credence to your claims.

  5. #5
    DOC.p's Avatar
    DOC.p is offline Super Moderator 7191 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRama View Post
    iMED, I can't make heads or tails of your post. If you are going to post what is likely to be a highly contentious topic I would suggest you look at your grammar, spelling and formatting. It would certainly add more credence to your claims.
    it's an internet forum, i've seen this argument so many times...who cares
    M.D.

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    Graig is offline Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCplucinski View Post
    it's an internet forum, i've seen this argument so many times...who cares
    I do, for one, as well as most other intelligent consumers of opinion regarding the school.
    It is obvious that if one wants to be taken seriously one should not present oneself as ignorant, disorganized, or otherwise cognitively/intellectually impaired. As a physician I would not counsel a patient against smoking while wearing a clown nose. The original statement is made wearing a grammatical clown nose, so to speak. It could be the utter truth, but the message will get lost if the transmission isn't clear.

  7. #7
    Graig is offline Member 510 points
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    iMED, the school doesn't use the Kaplan exam like they did before because the previous version was correlated with approximate scores on the USMLE. That version was used so much that a large portion of the people knew the exact questions on the exam before taking it; it was then replaced with the new Kaplan exam, which is not correlated with USMLE scores, rendering it useless as a measuring stick, with little predictive value.
    Also, passing these exams is not based upon whether or not one "deserves" to pass, or how hard one studies. Passing the comp is based upon your fund of knowledge, recall ability, and discrimination/pattern recognition, as well as how you do all this under the stress inherent in the circumstances. Period. No credit is given for hours studied, books read, parties unattended, or stylish outfit. You, me, and most all of us feel bad for our classmates and friends who did not pass the exam. I have friends that I care about a great deal fail that exam, and I'm sorry for the emotional and practical impact that has on them. That said, the exam is necessary as a gatekeeper into medicine, maintaining high standards of the physician workforce, and as demonstration to those that evaluate MUA that the school has standards similar to US schools. If the school just let anyone progress and take the USMLE the pass rate would plummet (see pass rates before Dean T for reference) and the school would be in danger of losing accreditation from state medical boards, or of not being able to attain state accreditation. So for as evil and heartless as it may appear, it is necessarily the impartial judge that we all rely on to both allow us as carib grads to practice, and allow us as patients to have confidence in the competence of our own doctors who were similarly rigorously tested.
    Last edited by Graig; 04-28-2009 at 07:08 PM.

  8. #8
    don1 is offline Moderator 547 points
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    I also just wrote the comp exam. I'm not sure about how many didn't make it, but I have heard that nearly half didn't pass. If this number is coming from the internal board; it views anyone with less than a 70% as failing (not the 62% needed to pass).

    The comp is not rocket science; it's the same type of questions as the shelf exam that students write at the end of each term from med1. The only people I know who didn't pass are those that clearly didn't study well by their own admission.

    Speaking as a student who passed with a high grade on the comp, I can say that MUA does give you the fundamentals to pass the comp. However, in med5 students have to review all the material on their own and integrate concepts. Doing lots of questions and studying first aid, someone should be able to pass the comp.
    Last edited by don1; 04-29-2009 at 09:27 AM.

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    green flash is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    sorry to hear the stats but.....

    I am sorry for those that worked hard and failed. I know it sucks but try to look at it as an opportunity to bring your score up. Step 1 is a big deal. I didn't realize how big a deal until now. I am in clinical rotations and learning all I can about applying for residencies etc. An article that was recently distributed among us ranked various things that residency programs look at when choosing a candidate. I was surprised to read that the usmle step 1 score is the number 1 thing that they look at followed by grades on core rotations, grades on electives, step 2 scores, and your school. Barely passing step 1 or worse failing step 1 is a big deal! We can blame the school, the teachers, or whatever but it is what it is and we are stuck with it. Please find the strength to pick yourself up and turn that negative energy into determination to score as high as you can. Some admin and professors encourage students to take step 1 as soon as possible after graduation. That may work for some but I don't think that works for everyone. I took my time and studied harder than I ever have in my life. I did kaplan twice and many, many questions from various question banks including usmle world. I did really well on the comp and step 1 and if I can do it, you can too! Best of luck to all the new graduates..I will be looking for you all in clincals!

  10. #10
    joe soap's Avatar
    joe soap is offline Senior Member 512 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graig View Post
    iMED, the school doesn't use the Kaplan exam like they did before because the previous version was correlated with approximate scores on the USMLE. That version was used so much that a large portion of the people knew the exact questions on the exam before taking it; it was then replaced with the new Kaplan exam, which is not correlated with USMLE scores, rendering it useless as a measuring stick, with little predictive value.
    Also, passing these exams is not based upon whether or not one "deserves" to pass, or how hard one studies. Passing the comp is based upon your fund of knowledge, recall ability, and discrimination/pattern recognition, as well as how you do all this under the stress inherent in the circumstances. Period. No credit is given for hours studied, books read, parties unattended, or stylish outfit. You, me, and most all of us feel bad for our classmates and friends who did not pass the exam. I have friends that I care about a great deal fail that exam, and I'm sorry for the emotional and practical impact that has on them. That said, the exam is necessary as a gatekeeper into medicine, maintaining high standards of the physician workforce, and as demonstration to those that evaluate MUA that the school has standards similar to US schools. If the school just let anyone progress and take the USMLE the pass rate would plummet (see pass rates before Dean T for reference) and the school would be in danger of losing accreditation from state medical boards, or of not being able to attain state accreditation. So for as evil and heartless as it may appear, it is necessarily the impartial judge that we all rely on to both allow us as carib grads to practice, and allow us as patients to have confidence in the competence of our own doctors who were similarly rigorously tested.
    ....well said...I concur.

    I would advise any reader to go to studentdoctor forum where it appears most US med students post. It seems by what I read on there, that many US students have trouble passing the CBSE (comp), same exam MUA has it's students take. These are US med students, if they have difficulties in passing or doing well on this exam (it appears they use this exam as a yardstick of where they are in prep stage etc)... this should show any carib med student what is expected of them. And FWIW the MLE Step 1 is tougher than the comp on so many levels. Better to fail this one than fail step 1.

    peace...
    Last edited by joe soap; 04-29-2009 at 12:49 AM.
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