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  1. #1
    caribdoctor is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Last edited by caribdoctor; 03-04-2008 at 12:39 AM. Reason: *************

  2. #11
    harsy is offline Member 510 points
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    I am all for positive change.On one hand,disgruntle students are protesting abt lower pass rate and at the same time ppl are angry with school raising academic standards?Sounds like unecessary and pointless ranting than anything else.
    Many of those ppl who feel like they have to transfer could be ppl who cheated !!I am happy the school is taking a strong stance against ppl who try to drag others down with them. Now if anyone has a problem with that,i think its better that they do transfer out.You are absolutely right that there are 23 schools in the caribbean but the quality of education is not the same. If u just want a ticket to write the step 1,there many less reputable schools,heck there is even an online school! I am glad that MUA is actually making an effort to TEACH us MEDICINE, rather than simply taking a test. Sure there are schools who dont want anything to do with local hospitals, exposure to clinical settings and their students still get to write the step1, and if someone wants to be that,then by all means.But i dont want that for me,and i know most of my class mates are happy with that as well.
    They are all businesses,granted but as a student we have to show wisdom and choose those which actually give us a good return for our investment.

  3. #12
    taare is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsy View Post
    I am all for positive change.On one hand,disgruntle students are protesting abt lower pass rate and at the same time ppl are angry with school raising academic standards?Sounds like unecessary and pointless ranting than anything else.
    Many of those ppl who feel like they have to transfer could be ppl who cheated !!I am happy the school is taking a strong stance against ppl who try to drag others down with them. Now if anyone has a problem with that,i think its better that they do transfer out.You are absolutely right that there are 23 schools in the caribbean but the quality of education is not the same. If u just want a ticket to write the step 1,there many less reputable schools,heck there is even an online school! I am glad that MUA is actually making an effort to TEACH us MEDICINE, rather than simply taking a test. Sure there are schools who dont want anything to do with local hospitals, exposure to clinical settings and their students still get to write the step1, and if someone wants to be that,then by all means.But i dont want that for me,and i know most of my class mates are happy with that as well.
    They are all businesses,granted but as a student we have to show wisdom and choose those which actually give us a good return for our investment.
    well put!!

  4. #13
    SirDaniel is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    IF you buy a ticket to write step one and pass, does the reputation of your school matter?

    Or does that mean somebody figured a way to cheat the NBME step 1?

    Last time i checked a schools increasing attrition rate is not a good thing. Universities back home correlate a schools attrition rate with poor teaching and low standards. I think MUA's current attrition rate speaks for the school accordingly.

  5. #14
    harsy is offline Member 510 points
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    You cannot take these things out of context.Attrition rate might be bad in general but it doesnt apply to everyone,and especially the group of (disgruntle) students who are making all the fuss. This barrage of criticism is coming from them, and they have brought this upon themselves by trying to teach the system.The school rather test them again,and make sure they study rather than having weak students take the test,fail and bring our stats down.
    If ur talking abt weeding out students,Ross is probably the most notorious one,but are u going to say that Ross is a bad school?Its not all black and white!

    No one cheats the NBME,these are standardized tests,if u are good enug to pass them, u are good enuf to practise medicine.You speak as if caribbean students are the only FMGs writing these tests...there are 1000s others around the world.
    i think schools back home(atleat the established ones) dont care much.They have tests made such a way that students are thoroughly tested, theres a standar distribution.They have perfected that system after decades or in many cases 100+ years of experience,MUA and many cariibean school are barely 10 yr old. But any weak student would be weeded out just as easily in any good school back in the states!

  6. #15
    anilamehta is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Ridiculous

    In response to Sir Daniel's postings along with many other absoultey ridiculous postings I just read: TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. The school is not "weeding' anyone out in their 4th or 5th semesters. People need to STOP placing blame on 'unfair' exams, bad profs, etc on their failure. Whether you are here in the Caribbean or back at home, you will have some great professors and some terrible ones. It is YOUR job, not the professor's to learn that material. Professors are there merely to guide you.

    There is NOTHING wrong with the administration raising the standards by making us take shelves every single semester and getting rid of curves. That will ONLY benefit us, NOT them.

    It will always be people who fail and can't take responsibility for their own actions who will try to be super negative and leave childish, poorly written comments on an online forum.

    I really do think MUA is a great school. If you do NOT feel challenged in your classes, there is something wrong. If you are putting in VERY little work and producing high grades, there is a problem. Both the professor's and the exams DO challenge the students. That is the only way to really learn your material and not just do well while you are here at MUA, but also do well in the future on your boards.

  7. #16
    SirDaniel is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    I completely agree with anilamehta....The theme to all the schools in the caribbean, and elsewhere is "Welcome to the jungle" "Every man for themselves" and "Take responsibility" . Thats just how things go, sometimes you have to suck it up. I get it. What anilamehta doesnt mention is, that if you get screwed like the way people are over there, atleast in the states you have accountability. Over here you have no accountability, its the wild west and I guess theres a new sherrif in town, cleaning up. what i dont get is why do you have dean coming on your forum convincing everyone "oh look at this list of things I am doing to help my students out who failed." When in reality he doesnt care about the outgoing students, his focus is on the new students. Sounds like some double speak, ambiguity to me.

    Shelves, and curving are part of medical schools all over and who knows what helps or not. One thing I do know is that a civil and united student body shows strength and character of a school. Obviously something is up if there is all this ruckus going on, and blaming people....and telling them to take responsibility doesnt change the core problem. Some of the smartest and brightest people in medical school go on to fail the Boards. Its not always about student or the professor, sometimes its about the infrastructure and if its faulty...things tend to come apart.

  8. #17
    Administration of MUA's Avatar
    Administration of MUA is offline School Official 510 points
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    From the Dean

    Please allow me to disagree with a post but it is mistaken, high attrition rates that are not excessively high (which MUA's are not) are a sign to regulatory folks and accreditors as reflecting HIGH STANDARDS. Irregardless of the excellence of the teaching occasional students will not matriculate through medical school. It is a fact that often makes me sad but is true. Furthermore MUA has taken steps recently to insure success of our students.

    I agree as I have said on this board previously Freedom of Speech Necessitates That While We May Not Like it, While It May Not Be True, and While It May Be Only One Person With An Agenda of Negativity because of their Failures IT IS STILL THEIR RIGHT ON AN OPEN BOARD TO STATE THEIR OPINION!. ALL CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS MATURE AND READY FOR MED SCHOOL WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THOSE PEOPLE AS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE. How is my statement here or encouraging students to post good experiences to counter lies and unprofessional attacks of the very few disgruntled by their own issues (which are not constructive or representative of the school) fishy?

    I agree that this board is a forum for students to ask questions, address issues, make observations, and gain perspective. For a board like this to be WORTHWHILE it must be full of professional, constructively worded statements based on honesty.

    It is absolutely correct that "sucking up" to me is worthless, See Harsy's post above.

    It is absolutely correct as I have heard, that in the past many acute changes at perhaps not the best times from some students perspectives were made. BUT any changes that were made were done so with the best of intentions by faculty and an administration that was and is committed to making sure that any MD with an MUA diploma is competent, professional and humanistic. The current Dean and Assistant Dean are committed to stability and having as few changes made as possible once we have our vision for the school complete. Every medical school that is truly committed to excellence is always trying to improve and look for new and better ways to teach.

    We at MUA are intent on making sure that while it is true that where you went to school in the final analysis is not as crucial as your passing the USMLE the FIRST TIME with a good score I personally and my faculty have a goal and a need to make certain that everyone with an MUA diploma is a competent caring doc. If that sadly means "weeding" people out at the end of basic science so be it. It is not a failure of the school but rather a humane and needed recognition by the school that such an individual will not meet the high standards that an MUA diploma implies.

    I am new and making changes which are constructive and obviously by the number of posts from many different students, (new posters and old) well received by the vast majority of the student body. They understand that my committment runs deep and true. If anyone is to blame for this transfer of students it is me but it is because students could not pass a test that would prove to me that they would ultimately with high likelihood be a physician worthy of an MUA diploma. Neither myself nor any of our faculty want any of our graduates to be anything other than GREAT docs.

    Some people are just not good test takers and I have instituted a study skills program starting in semester one BUT we are making even more efforts for our 5th semester students!. Some students have english as a second language and have problems with written comprehension which I am trying to deal with by recruiting a certified techer of english as a second language to work with vignette comprehension. I am thinking out of the box and doing it just so in the future I don't have to deal with the intense sadness I feel for students not making it through when they are so close to the end. That pains me more than anyone can imagine.

    "Many" students transfering? If a very few means many to you I cannot help that but it does get back to what I referred to earlier that posts should be factual. I have taken note of the transfering students as suggested and it just gets back to our need at MUA to make certain of competence, professionalism and caring. Any good educator who realizes the responsibility of being a professor at a medical school would NOT have it any other way.

    These are NOT hoops we are asking people to jump through they are standards, bars being set at a level that will make every person with an MUA diploma proud, make myself the faculty and the administration proud BECAUSE the MUA diploma is a certificate of competence, professionalism and caring.

    Practicing in the state you want is very important to some and not so important to others. In fact I checked on a state for a student just this afternoon. For most they can find a place they like even with state limitations.

    I hope my desire for all students in medical school everywhere to do well is clear, because it is my true wish.

    Dean T
    Last edited by Administration of MUA; 03-05-2008 at 06:27 PM.
    Medical University of the Americas, Nevis

  9. #18
    Transducin's Avatar
    Transducin is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Sir Daniel makes some very good points. Even if MUA wants to be the "Harvard" of the Caribbean, there are no shortcuts. It is a process that requires TIME and deliberate, well thought out plans. These plans should be implemented in a manner that insures the success of the students first which in turn enhances MUA's academic reputation. The top schools in the Caribbean were not established in a year, 2 or even 5 years. Recent attempts at MUA to accelerate and improve the academics by introducing all kinds of new regulations, are no more than a high risk experiment. As with most experiments, the probabilities of success and failure are equal. If this experiment succeeds, then that would be some accomplishment. If it fails, the damage to the school and its reputation could be greater than originally anticipated. Building on something by gradually and deliberately improving it, is less risky than scrapping everything and starting from scratch.
    all medicine wants is sickness to healHidden Content

    J R


  10. #19
    SirDaniel is offline Permanently Banned 510 points
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    GREAT SPEECH DEAN. I have been an observer of valueMD for many years, and have never seen this much school official involvement on MUA forums in the past . I usually see them on threads of schools that are really doing poorly. Again I reserve my right to observe.

  11. #20
    Administration of MUA's Avatar
    Administration of MUA is offline School Official 510 points
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    Change

    I agree with Tranducin's post. But would suggest the idea that quickly instituting standards that guarantee excellence in graduates can lead to nothing other than improvement. I agree wholeheartedly that it will take time. I am very hands on and enjoy the board and any observation that an experienced observer makes I appreciate! Dean T
    Medical University of the Americas, Nevis

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