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  1. #1
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    This could happen to you

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    This is another letter I receive. I have to delete any personal info in the post but if you PM me I will email yo the full content and all contact information. You can speak with this person and verify everything posted.




    I am writing to you in that myself and other students have lied to, deceived and harmed by the actions of Dr (Owner of SABA/MUA) and his staff. Apparently, Dr(Owner of SABA/MUA)and his staff will tell students exactly what they want to hear in order to get their enrollment and money. His campuses are in various locations in the Caribbean. Once you are one of their islands, and they have your money as far as Dr. (Owner of SABA/MUA) is concerned, anything goes. As students, we have grown so accustomed to deception and lies that after a while it seems like a normal acceptable occurrence.

    It begins with the interview after they receive one’s application to any one of Dr.(Owner of SABA/MUA) three campuses.

    My concern was that I had a life before I began in Washington State. Being away from a city which I called my home for the first two years of medical school was a hardship, I was willing to take as long as I could return to Washington State for the final two years of clinical rotations. I was assured by Dr. *****, one of Dr.(Owner of SABA/MUA) staff that there would be no problem. I was told that there was a growing consortium of campuses owned by Dr. (Owner of SABA/MUA) and that all clinical resources are shared. I was told there were clinical slots available in Seattle, Spokane and Tacoma.

    If they would have honestly told me that there was NO way to get back to my home state throughout at least the four years of medical school, I would definitely gone elsewhere.

    As a second enticement, myself and all of the students entering medical school with me were promised that if we went to the new campus on Nevis in the West Indies, our tuition would remain the same throughout our time in medical school. Half of the students in my class actually got letters to that effect. I was unfortunately not one of them. Even on the first day of class in our orientation, Dr. (Owner of SABA/MUA) got up to speak to my class reminding us that as the first regular class at the new campus, our tuition would remain the same throughout our attendance. One semester later, the tuition went up over $1000 per term. The administration denied ever making the promise to EVERYONE.

    Before I left the States, I was given a budget and expenses that I could expect when we got to the island campus. In the expenses, was the cost of living and dormitory costs for the time we were to be attending there. What was not told to us before we left for the island, was that we could only live in the dorms for the first semester only and from them on we had to fend for ourselves. The islanders charged phenomenal prices for dumps and most were so far from campus the most students had to rent junker island cars for $600 to $800 per month just to get to school. Everything was twice a expensive as we were told. Within 9 months I was out of money without the administrative office in Gardner Massachusetts being any help. I had to give notice and move out of the apartment I was renting in mid semester because of my running out of money. A friend let me sleep on a couch for a few weeks until I could find a place to live.

    We were told in writing we would be able to get California or Texas licensure which was a promise just to quiet the dissent. That never happened.

    While on the island we were given a multi-page list of hospitals to choose from for clinical rotations. We were always reminded that the SABA and MUA schools were part of the SABA/MUA Consortium. It was also explained to us that the advantage of the consortium was the pooling of resources and assets so that students from any campus would be able to have access to any of the hospitals that any other campus in the consortium had access to.

    When I made contact with the clinical director of MUA a few months before I finished the science portion of medical school, I was told there was no consortium even though it was on the school’s signage. I was told that there was NO list of hospitals or affiliations with any hospital in Washington State. I then transcribed hospitals from the list and got very nasty, hateful and threatening responses. A few days later, I was accidentally sent an interdepartmental email from Mr. *****, describing himself as the SABA/MUA attorney and a call for the staff conspire to find a way to harm my record with the school.

    Dr. (Owner of SABA/MUA) administrative office cancelled financial aid scheduled to be released in the fall 2002 and in the spring of 2003.

    The money for fall of 2002 was eventually released after many threats and through the help of Dr. (Dean & wife MUA Belize) who was originally the one that approved the loans in the first place.

    Later I was told that I would not be eligible for financial aid for another year. There was no way I could continue without money.

    The were also stalling on getting me a clinical rotation before the six month time period had elapsed, after which I would have to begin repaying the loans.

    Below are some correspondence with the (Owner of SABA/MUA) administrative office starting October 11th of last year. I have all correspondence also saved as Adobe PDF files as well for permanent records.

    Oct. 11, 2002 (Introduction)

    Hello Dr. *****,

    I will be finishing up at MUA Belize in December of this year. I will be taking the big Kaplan review from January to May, then the Boards in May. My hope is to do clinicals in Washington State and preferably in Seattle or Tacoma. Dr. ***** said that you already have connections in Tacoma. It looked as though there were three hospitals as possibilities in Tacoma. Is there anything in Seattle or on the west side of the mountains?

    Thank you for all,


    Received No reply but a month later I got this after desperately waiting for my fall financial aid check.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: ***** ***** [mailto:*****@*****.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:55 AM
    To:
    Subject: Loan Disbursements

    Dear *****,

    In speaking with Dr. ***** in our clinical department, she informed me that you have not contacted her in regards to starting your clinicals once you finish this semester.

    As you will probably be studing for the boards after finishing your 5th semester, you are considered not actively involved in clinicals and therefore cannot receive any loan monies. It is our policy that students cannot take out or receive loan monies for living expenses while studying for the boards. Until you are actively doing rotations, I cannot release any of your loan monies.

    I have contacted KeyBank and had them change the disbursement date of both of your loans to Feb. 1, 2003. If you are not doing rotations by then, I will have to change the disbursement date to a later date. Once I get word from Dr. ***** that you are going to be starting your rotations, I will contact KeyBank to have them release the monies.

    Please contact Dr. ***** so that she may discuss with you what needs to be done in order for you to start your 6th semester. She will also let you know what documents are still needed to complete your file.

    I was VERY upset and not able to get a hold of Dr. (Dean wife at MUA Belize) for the following week as she was off of the island.

    The next day I wrote to the clinical director, Dr. *****.

    Hi again Dr. *****,

    I wrote you an introduction note a month ago. I attached it below. Yesterday ***** made mention that I had not contacted you. In the email to you on the 11th of October, I wanted to say hello and introduce myself to you. I asked about clinicals in the Seattle area.

    I understand you are very busy and my email went unnoticed in the chaos. I will stay in much closer contact with you from now on. I will definitely not let anywhere near a month go by without keeping in contact with you. My hope is to stop by your office around the first part of January to introduce myself in person.

    I would appreciate a response from you on the question posed in the correspondence of last month.

    Thank you,
    *********

    I got back a brief note in which was said:

    Dr. (Dean wife at MUA Belize) must have been misinformed. We do not have any affiliations in the state of Washington. We have one student who is doing rotations in WA. However, she had previously worked as a nurse and was able to use some of her contacts to get her own rotations.

    I wrote back on November 14th that I was handed out a packet with clinicals from Dr. (DEAN wife at MUA Belize) with many Washington clinicals listed and a copy of my October 11th introduction email and trying to give Dr. ***** an out by saying that;

    “I know you are busy and I can understand that my October 11th introduction email could easily have been overlooked. I was given a list printed by the administration office, of available clinicals by Dr. (Dean wife at MUA Belize) and there were numerous ones in Washington. Can you help me with this please?”


    Dr. ***** responded to that with:

    ********,

    First of all, let us get one thing perfectly clear. Your emails from last
    week were the first I had ever received from you. Your accusatory tone will not be tolerated. I strongly suggest that we both work toward maintaining a professional relationship whereby we can work together to see you through the successful completion of your medical education.

    You are more than welcome to try and obtain rotation in Washington State. As I have already stated, we have a student who is currently completing her rotation in WA. However, she obtain each one on her own.

    Another point of confusion that needs to be addressed is your reference to SABA/MUA. There is no SABA/MUA. There is SABA (our sister school) and MUA. We do have rotations in some of the same institutions. However, we do not share all affiliates. SABA has some rotations where MUA students are not allowed.

    Please be advised the SABA and MUA have separate charters. As such we are separate schools. Therefore, please remember that you are a student of MUA not SABA. Please do not refer to yourself as SABA/MUA when you are participating in clinical rotation.

    I responded:

    Good Morning Dr. *****,

    Nice to hear from you again. This is the forward of my initial introduction to you emailed and delivered to *****@*****.com on Friday, October 11th 2002. There was no accusatory intention. I am just straight forward. I don’t know much about you as you don’t know much about me. All I can assume is that your work load with the school must be substantial for me to have gotten lost in the shuffle. I am human as you are.

    I am trying to get through this as best I can without stepping on too many toes in the meantime. It is disconcerting to find out over time that there are retractions, changes or denials of things said. I was brought up in the Midwest to respect the phrase, “My word is my bond.” I am not referring to you in this, so please don’t jump to conclusions. I was told two and a half years ago by Dr. ***** that you did have affiliations in the State of Washington. I took Dr. ***** at his word on that. When I was over on Nevis I saw handout lists of clinicals available to us. Even while here in Belize I have excitedly kept up with the growing number of hospitals available for clinicals. Washington State was “always” on the lists. I was not tremendously excited about Spokane as an option but, if that was one so be it. Now, to my surprise, I find that you say there are no affiliations. One can only come to the conclusion that they were lost or let go. As you can imagine this is very disconcerting. My offer to you was to help reestablish affiliations that once were in Washington, as there are a number of students coming up behind me that are very interested in clinicals in Washington as well. It is good for the school too, as there are hundreds of potential new students are in Wahington, but will not begin if they cannot end up near friends and family.

    What do you have in Oregon?

    I did receive the packet. Actually, that is what prompted me to make my introduction (below) to you last month.

    There was no accusatory tone intended or needed to be tolerated. Again I understand that you must be very busy and it is very easy to overlook one email.

    I would appreciate your guidance and assistance as I do not know where to start with setting up clinicals in Washington. I would appreciate the names, numbers, addresses or even better, email addresses of the hospital contacts that you have in Washington for MUA or SABA. I may then be able to set up a meeting with them over the upcoming break. Let’s get started together in a good way, one of friendly cooperation. We are all trying to get through life the best we can and to help others along the way. In life, I would like as much good to be left in my wake as I possibly can, and I think you would as well.

    Lets start this adventure as allies. Together we can accomplish a lot.

    So, in starting over:

    Good Morning Dr. *****,
    Hope this is the beginning of a great week for you.

    Sincerely.

    Dr. ***** responded to my email by embedding phrases in the above email that I sent her. She essentially told me to find my own connections and call around for clinicals in the State of Washington.

    I then wrote:

    Good Morning Dr. *****,

    Thank you for your response this morning.

    Since we are now on the same page, I will rephrase the question.

    Who are the Consortium contact people for:
    Rockwood Clinic, Spokane, WA
    Holy Family Hospital, Spokane, WA
    Deaconess Medical Center, Spokane, WA
    Allenmoore Medical Center, Tacoma, WA
    Puget Sound Behavioral Health, Tacoma, WA

    And please include the name and email address of your lone student in Washington State.

    How do I go about establishing my own clinicals. Is there a format of approach that you have.

    As said before, I am new at this and would appreciate your guidance. You are the professional and I know with your expert help I can help the consortium reestablish it's presence in the State of Washington.

    Again thanks for your response this morning.

    Sincerely.

    Those hospitals were directly off of the list that the administration provided me. She responded again that I was on my own if I wanted clinicals in the State of Washington and that I should call them on my own but the clinical office was not going to help me in this matter.

    I got this email on the 20th of November from:
    ***** ***** [*****@*****.com]

    and was CC:ed to;

    *****@hotmail.com; *****@btl.net; *****@yahoo.com;
    *****@hotmail.com; *****@yahoo.com; *****@yahoo.com; *****@yahoo.com
    Dear All,
    Speaking as the University attorney (one of them) Idon't want any student knocking on doors looking for clinical rotations. This is the kiss of death. I sure as HELL don't want **** REPRESENTATING MUA or the "consortium'. His communication skills are nill and his people skills are even less. Could someone in clinicals assume the responsibility to put IN WRITING the steps we already have to get clinicals. In my opinion we need to stop this NUT BEFORE he does us damage in the US. He goes to the sites we assign him AFTER he passes the USMLE.
    IF he thinks he has a contact at a hospital he needs to get the contacts name, telephone number, cell number, fax number, email address and regular address so someone in CLINICALS can make the contact. He should not be making any direct contact.
    Do we have grounds to get this guy on PROBATION (for anything) in an effort to control him?
    This guy is a tremendous LOOSE CANON. Did anyone out there tell him it was OK to just call hospitals and say he was a 'consortium student'???????
    Your thoughts,
    *****
    When I read this I was crushed and saw my scholastic life going before my eyes. I could not understand how I could get a reaction like this from anyone. I let a number of fellow students read all of my correspondence with the (Owner of SABA/MUA) administration and they were all dumbfounded, including an attorney.

    On April 2nd 2003 I wrote ***** *****, the MUA Financial Director

    *****,

    I would greatly appreciate it if you would email me a copy of a breakdown of the two disbursements made in December. I never got an actual breakdown of what went where. I know there was quite a bit of money taken out to prepay some semesters of clinicals. It would be nice to see where it all went.

    And, please email me a breakdown of the two disbursements approved and scheduled to be released on the 10th and the 15th of this month. (April 10th and 15th)

    I will be very appreciative of your time and attention.

    Thanks


    April 7th I wrote the message below

    *****,

    Thank you for the update on my loans. When can I now expect disbursement.

    Thanks .

    She answered on April 10th

    Mr. *******,

    There will not be any disbursement. When you start your 9th semester, you
    will be eligible for a loan at Cost of Education only.

    ***** *****
    Finance Administrator
    Medical University of the Americas Belize

    In your thirst for knowledge, be sure not to drown in all the information...

    So that meant the next time I would be eligible for financial aid was a year away as I was trying at that point to get into 6th semester which I needed financial aid for. And not only that ***** stated that I was only eligible for Cost of Education ONLY. What happened to living expenses.

    This was the week before I transferred over to *******

    About this time I wrote Dr. ***** asking her what Psych clinicals are available “Anywhere in the entire United States” as I need to get into a clinical before the 6 month grace period is up for my student loans and while I am waiting for USMLE results.

    She responded that they already have students that “already passed” the USMLE that are in line waiting for clinicals.

    So, in other words, I was told to forget about getting into clinicals anytime soon.

    This type of thing happened to many, many other students, but Dr. (Owner of SABA/MUA) is counting on us all quitting or transferring. Most MUA/SABA students have some kind of story of ill treatment.


    Holly clinical rotations rotations Batman, could this be true?????

    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger..................................

    -----------------------
    edited by moderator for personal content on sat 06 dec 2003 22:30 eastern time

  2. #2
    SKL
    SKL is offline Member 510 points
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    FACTS to some of your issues

    Quote Originally Posted by The Messenger
    As a second enticement, myself and all of the students entering medical school with me were promised that if we went to the new campus on Nevis in the West Indies, our tuition would remain the same throughout our time in medical school. ..... One semester later, the tuition went up over $1000 per term. The administration denied ever making the promise to EVERYONE.
    FACTS: Tuition was $3,950 for Sept. 2001; $4,450 for Sept. 2002 and $4,950 for Jan. 2003. We applied so early for enrollment in Sept. 2002 that school asked us if we want to start in Sept. 2001 so I know back then it was $3950. But when we actually started in Sept. 2002, it went up to $ $4450, then $4950 after one term we were in school and up to now. So went up $1,000 after one term is totally incorrect. We never were promised same tuition over our course of study.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Messenger
    What was not told to us before we left for the island, was that we could only live in the dorms for the first semester only and from them on we had to fend for ourselves. The islanders charged phenomenal prices for dumps and most were so far from campus the most students had to rent junker island cars for $600 to $800 per month just to get to school.
    FACTS: Car rental here is about ~U$300 / month. For U$300 - U$400, you could get sth like a 4 doors Suzuki Sidekick (the long one, not the 2 door short one). Just today, I saw an advertisement on RAMs (the largest supermarket). For U$1000, you can rent a house which has 2 large bedrooms, each with private bath, an indoor swim lap pool (i.e. narrow, not too long one), and living room, patio with iron furniture, etc. and oversee St. Kitts in Jones Estate, which is about 15 min. drive to school. The one bedroom apt unit within 7 min. WALK to school, cost U$450 /mo for people that prepay the 4 month in advance. And they can live there forever they want. I wouldn't call this "phenomenal price"


    Quote Originally Posted by The Messenger

    When I was over on Nevis I saw handout lists of clinicals available to us. Even while here in Belize I have excitedly kept up with the growing number of hospitals available for clinicals. Washington State was “always” on the lists. I was not tremendously excited about Spokane as an option but, if that was one so be it. Now, to my surprise, I find that you say there are no affiliations.
    FACTS: I confirmed with my husband who has seen the list of clinical rotation spot; and never he saw sites in Washington state. Why we can be so sure, because we are from B.C. Canada (now, everybody know who I am ) we would be jumping and so happy that if we could do rotation in Washington state which is so close to home. But we always know our rotation sites are mostly in the east side of the US.

    This particular person first started in Nevis as he claims then ended up finishing in Belize. I wonder why? Because for a fact that, Nevis campus has better facilities, at least bigger campus, owned not rented. So why the trf?

    The first 2 facts are verifiable, the 3rd one, hope you'll trust me

    Lastly, if MUA was a school like to lie, then logically they should post sth like "90% USMLE pass rate" "100% residency match rate" on their website. Go take a look on the school website, they even list out the alumni list even it's quite short. Do you think a school like to lie will do sth like that?

    I am stating all facts, and no opinions.

  3. #3
    oneeyepirate is offline Junior Member
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    Gladiator I salute you

    After reading your lovely message and copies of emails there are a couple of things that come to mind. First off, I have the list of clinicals that was faxed to the Nevis office from the US office dated 04/01 sitting in front of me right now and there is NO reference to clinicals in Washington State. It does refer to a hospital in Washington DC and it also refers to Deaconess Hospital NOT in Spokane but in Oklahoma. My tall friend that had a dingy that took him back and forth from st. kitts because his family lived there..started in premed when I was in second semester. I am sitting next to him right now because he has come here to Houma (where the locals are very very nice ppl, infact theres one over at my Acadian Apt friends house with me right now) to set up housing for clinicals that hes starting next yr. He, my tall friend (not as tall as me and not the local) wants to go back to WASHINGTON state because he is originally from there. He has researched the major caribbean schools prior to starting at MUA and none of them had 3rd year cores set up in Washington, the state, that includes Ross, AUC and St Georges.

    I have not experienced any problems with the Clinical office or the Financial Aid office at all. They have been outstanding. I have been in clinicals back to back to back and am almost finished thanks to the clinical coord. I have had absolutely no problems with my loans, ive been on medachiever since day number 1. If you are taking time off and are on a leave of absence (which you have to take if you take more than 30days off) while studying for the boards you will not receive and should not receive any kind of loan disbursements. Its mandatory to take a leave of absence because any period of inactivity needs to be accounted for and documented by the school if the ECFMG ever raises any questions.

    Why would anyone transfer from MUA nevis to mua belize? It serves no purpose if you are a good student, passing all of your classes. People that transfer are those that are having some kind of trouble.

    This is pure nonsense from a disgruntled and nonsuccessful student. For each unhappy student I probably know 20 happy students. They are successfully completing their clinical rotations and well on their way to becoming MD's.

  4. #4
    muacoco is offline Junior Member
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    thank you

    it is nice to hear from students who are actually at nevis or doing clinicals. clearifying this insane allegations from the messenger. thank you all....it really helps students like me who is planning on starting in may.

  5. #5
    aframe's Avatar
    aframe is offline Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by muacoco
    it is nice to hear from students who are actually at nevis or doing clinicals. clearifying this insane allegations from the messenger. thank you all....it really helps students like me who is planning on starting in may.
    Unfortunately, If you piss off someone in administration they will mess you up till you decide to transfer. I had pissed off the Dean on Saba and he made sure I was expelled at the first chance he got. All because I asked him why 33% of the Path I students had to fail when he had stated prior that pass/fail would be based on the bell curve within 2 SD. So be sweet as you can and keep the waters smooth and you will get throu. Dont ask questions and do your best.

    Do you know how Saba got NY and CA. When they came down for a site visit students in Physical Diagnosis (4th semester) where mixed with 5 th semester students. Now these 4 th semesters are really learning something. Go figure
    Hidden Content To Answer The Call Hidden Content

  6. #6
    Unaccomplished is offline Member 510 points
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    this could be off topic.. but I was told by Gardner and by MUA Belize that they no longer are affiliated and they were sold...
    Basic Sciences [x] Step 1 [x]ob gyn [x] family med [x]
    internal medicine[x]surgery [ ] peds [ ] psych [ ]
    step 2 ck [ ] electives [ ] step 2 cs[ ] ERAS [ ] Match [ ]


  7. #7
    enigma00183 is offline Member 510 points
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    umm... this is a 2 yr old thread.

  8. #8
    taare is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    3 yr old...lol

  9. #9
    bstone's Avatar
    bstone is offline Member 517 points
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    moderators, can this thread be locked? deleted?

  10. #10
    hapshey_usa's Avatar
    hapshey_usa is offline Member
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    The part about the tuition increase is believable because a similar situation happened at MUA nevis to some people who originially applied at SABA. The remaining issues in this thread, I can't comment on because i know nothing about them.

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