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  1. #1
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    Here is why you should avoid SABA/MUA

    I have been in contact with may people who have transfered out of SABA and MUA. I have permission to share 2 of many emails I have received. The moderators have FORCED me to remove the personal contact information of the authors of the emails. If you email me I will provide you with their contact details so you can verify this information and come to your own conclusion.

    Hopefully this will force the admin (Dr. ***) to release our transcripts with out changing our grades.

    Email #1

    I got this email this morning from ***l *****.

    He used to teach at MUA Belize.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: ** [mailto:]
    Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 4:37 AM
    To: Dr. *************
    Subject: Re: What is the Status?

    My friend:


    I will never give up and I am sorry for being silent for this long. The reason is simple: I am in Europe and was looking for an apartment and getting certain papers done. I am now at the end of this process and I will let you know very soon. We need to file as a group with the following agencies: USMLE, all 50 attorney generals, all 50 licensing medical boards, all 50 education boards, the department of education, all loan agencies that ***** (SABA/MUA) works with such as Terri loans etc., all 50 governors, and all 100 senators. Our filing should be electronic to Massachusetts attorney general and cc to all others so there will be no complaisance with our claim. Also, we need to keep sending the same claim to other agencies as new ideas come up. So from your side please save some time daily to find out some e-mail addresses for the institution mentioned above. I am already tabulating such list. An electronic complaint will be very easy to do.

    One more thing any body who needs to join this effort must send us an e-mail attesting so and clearly indicating his desire to pursue the claims. That way we will be covered.

    I am so happy where I am. Has nothing to do with the ridicule of Caribbean medical schools. These schools are in English, you are licensed in the country of study and in the rest of the world including all the 50 states. I am also a full Professor of Microbiology and in a fully recognized school.

    Those students that you gave me their names I did send them messages.

    I am waiting for your suggestions.


    Email #2


    I am an American citizen currently attending the Medial University of the Americas, Belize Campus (MUA) on a student visa. I have been here since January 8, 2003. Due to an unfortunate set of events, which occurred yesterday, August 18, 2003, I am lodging a formal complaint against MUA, and am requesting appropriate action be taken to resolve this matter.

    I have recently decided to transfer from MUA to the Central American Health Sciences University (CAHSU) in Belize City for both personal and professional reasons. As a professional (I am a mature – I think that is the politically-correct term for 52 years of age - student with a doctorate in Physiology, University of Arizona, 1989) and out of respect for the professionalism of the Administrators of MUA, both here and in the U.S., I met with the Dean of the school, Dr. ** ***, to inform her of my plans to transfer, especially because we had been discussing the possibility of my teaching the Epidemiology Course next semester. I choose this course of action despite warnings from both faculty members and students of the vindictiveness this administration of MUA has exhibited in the past. She advised me my decision to transfer is a bad decision because CAHSU is neither accredited nor chartered, it has sanctions against it in three states, and most states will not issue medical licenses to CAHSU graduates. These statements are untrue. She also admonished me not to tell any of the MUA students. I agreed not to indiscriminately broadcast it, but that I would, of course, tell my friends. I have become quite close with several of my “step-children” here, as most of the students are the same ages as my sons.

    Things proceeded normally after that (so I thought) and I did a couple of classroom presentations and was doing the last “power studying” the weekend before my final exams. Yesterday, I came in for class, as usual, and while waiting for class to begin, both Dr. *** *** and Dr. ***, husband and President of MUA, came in and I greeted them with my normal cheery hell-o. Dr. *** asked if I had a couple of minutes and I said sure, thinking I just needed to fill out my withdrawal form, which I had not yet done. Not so, instead, he indicated to me that four MUA students have filed formal complaints against me for aggressively harassing them, to the point where they could not study, to transfer to CAHSU. This is absolutely not true – I didn’t talk to the people I don’t know well about my transfer, and, because I care so much about my friends, the very last thing I would do is to even try to pressure them to move to CAHSU. Dr. *** went on to say that these students also filed complaints with the Consortium office in Massachusetts (MUA, Belize is one of three schools in a Consortium comprised of Saba University, and MUA Nevis and Belize campuses).

    Until very recently (within the past two weeks) MUA Belize did not have a Charter and was operating under the Charter of its sister campus, MUA Nevis. Dr. *** indicated to me that He had received reports from, again unnamed students that I was saying that their newly-issued Charter is valid for a one-year period, during which time they must meet the stipulations set forth in that Charter. I did say something similar to that in response to a direct question from one student I don’t know that well who approached me, not the other way around, prefacing it with “I am not an attorney, but the way I read it is….” I do not know if this is the student to whom Dr. *** is referring – I do know that this is what I said, and I do not recall discussing this issue with other students. As communicated to me during this meeting, Dr. *** asked two students to approach me with questions he prepared for them to see how I would respond. Again, as the students are unnamed by Dr. ***, I cannot say whether this individual was one of the students Dr. *** asked to set me up. He also said my name had been mentioned in reference to a report to the press, but refused to provide any more information than that. I have since learned that the press has no stories linked to my name, does not have my name, and, in fact, has never heard of me.

    Based on this information, Dr. *** informed me he called a meeting of the Board of Directors for MUA to discuss the matter. He indicated to me that this was followed up yesterday morning with a four-hour phone call between Dr. ***** (President of the Consortium) and himself, when they unilaterally decided I was to be suspended immediately, kicked off the campus and not allowed to take my final exams, with no recourse. At the end of their “investigation”, if they find the charges are not true, I was told by Dr. *** that my grades will be recorded as they currently stand – an A in Physiology, an A in Biochemistry and a B in Medical Psychology.

    When I was given a brief chance to respond to these allegations, I asked him how they could come to such a harsh and punitive decision in the absence of any input from me whatsoever. He replied the “This is a private school. I can suspend anyone at anytime I see fit, and without recourse from the student.” I then asked him for the names of the students, which he refused to provide. He went on to tell me that this is a litigious situation and MUA has filed legal action against me because, in expressing my opinion of what the Charter states, I am acting as and agent of MUA and in that capacity, I slandered and libeled the school. He even hinted that he had a written document written by me that is consistent with his allegations, which is impossible.

    I informed Dr. *** that I could immediately get signatures from all the first and second semester students I talked to on a petition confirming that I did not in anyway coerce them into going to CAHSU, in fact, quite the opposite; I encouraged them to stay at MUA because a portion of my reason for transferring is personal, which does not apply to them. *** then replied that the recruitment of students is not the issue, which is completely inconsistent with how he began the discussion, but that my illegal actions as an agent of MUA are what he has deemed as unprofessional and, based on that assessment, I am suspended for “Unprofessional Conduct”. I repeatedly told him that I did not at any time represent myself as an agent, that at the time I was, as it turns out, set up to answer the question by (if my assumption is correct, an attorney) I said multiple times that I am not an attorney. He did concede at this point that there may have been a misinterpretation of what I said, but wasn’t about to budge in his decision to suspend me and not allow me to take the final examinations necessary to complete my coursework.

    Dr. *** went on to inform me that I should get an attorney to represent me in an attorney myself. He said I would indeed need the petition I mentioned, but I am forbidden from talking to any students until their finals are over, knowing that when finals are over, the first thing students do is get on a plane. Since Dr. ***’s discussion with me, I have learned that Dr. *** has, in her capacity of Dean, spoken to at least one class of first semester students and told them that I was suspended, not for recruiting students, but for defaming MUA.

    Shortly after my conversation with Dr. ***, I left San Pedro, where MUA rents a portion of the Belize Yacht Club, where it rents space for its medical school to come to Belize City. During this visit I have spoken to the CEO of the Ministry of Education and Youth Sports, Dr. ****, whose official signature is on the Charter. She has assured me that this document provides MUA with a one-year period during which the school must meet strictly defined, comprehensive standards in order to have the Charter extending for an operating period of three years, at which time MUA will again be evaluated by the Ministry of Education and Youth Sports. Thus, any remarks I made regarding the Charter being valid for a one-year period during which time the stipulations set forth in the Charter must be met are, in fact, correct. I have not in any way, regardless of “misinterpretations” libeled, slandered or defamed MUA – I simply spoke the truth.

    I am requesting you intercede, as appropriate to rectify the following matters with respect to this truly unfortunate incident:

    1) I have fulfilled my obligations to MUA by paying my tuition on time, attending classes as scheduled within the policies for absenteeism established by MUA, and handed in all assignments, completed all classroom presentations and written all exam, with the exception of the final examinations, from which I was prohibited from taking by MUA administration. I am requesting MUA be required to meet their obligations by immediately releasing ALL of my grades, at a level consistent with documentation provided to me by the instructors, immediately by FedEx to the following address:
    ***** *****
    *********
    ********

    2) I have not said anything regarding MUA that is inconsistent with the truth. I am requesting Drs. and *** be served official notice to cease from continuing to use their capacities as President and Dean of MUA to continue to defame me.
    3) As part of the fees for the first semester, students are assessed a $250.00 slide fee, which is refunded to the students upon MUA’s receipt of the slides in good condition. I fulfilled my obligations in returning the slides intact, which was recorded at the end of the previous semester in late April. I have not yet received the refund of the deposit. I would like to have it refunded to me immediately to the address listed in point 1.


    I simply want to be allowed to pursue my medical education at CAHSU. I have no interest in MUA. I just want them to refund my $250.00 deposit, then leave me alone and let me get on with my life to leave them behind, as an unfortunate (thankfully short) chapter in my life experiences. Thank you for whatever assistance with which you are able to provide me in regards to this matter.


    Sincerely,



    ******* ******

    This is truely SCARY STUFF, if this can happen to their instructor/students what chance do the rest of us have.

    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger.............

    -------------------------------------
    Edited by Moderator on 12/6/03 at 1:23 pm EST for containing personal infomation without permission of the individuals. Please note that the user was asked and cooperated to a minimal extent, but refused to comply fully.

  2. #41
    Japhethi is offline Temporarily Banned
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    Agree

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    Once again, totally agree with you..

    I think it goes beyond reason here to state that "the messenger" has to "prove his allegations". This is not a criminal court. I think "messenger" has submitted links and information and I believe some of it is easy to verify.

    I was at MUA when the tuition fee increase was up. I was one of the "lukcy" ones that had no paper stating my tuiton would not increase. I found this very disgusting and thrifty behaviour from the admins side and I believe it was the deciding factor that changed many students former good view upon the school.

    Another thing is that it created a class rift between those who had a ridiculous paper and those who didn't. Can you imagine a school in the US where half the class would have to pay 1000 less than the other? Talk about discrimination, I bet a huge *** lawsuit would be the minimum.


    When it comes to the other things Mr Messenger says, I can only say that the clinical status was the sole reason I decided to transfer to another school.


    When this is said, I think we should be able to distinguish between bashing each other and coming out with what we have experienced of bad behaviour AND good as well. This is a forum of information and opinions and if all we do is sit and browse this forum and sing Kumbaya and praise every school, I believe this forum will be dead soon.

    If an admin does not have the guts to stand up for their decicions and just want to paste it over and label every critic as "failure" that thing will not fly.


    Sons Of Jafeth

  3. #42
    dt
    dt is offline Elite Member 510 points
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    ..

    good. glad to have your comments SonsofJafeth.

  4. #43
    Vector is offline Newbie
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    if

    someone was to verify this info how could it be posted so not to violate the terms of agreement

  5. #44
    dt
    dt is offline Elite Member 510 points
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    re: if

    Quote Originally Posted by Vector
    someone was to verify this info how could it be posted so not to violate the terms of agreement
    I noticed that you are banned after 2 posts. I can only find one of your posts, so the other must have been moved elsewhere.

    If you are from Luton campus and using their network, it may be that your IP will register the same on valueMD.

    It is also possible that you are using the same email address for signup as did The Messenger.


    disclaimer: I have no idea what the ip and email addresses are.

  6. #45
    jbuzz is offline Junior Member
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    lawyers or doctors?

    The main people posting on this thread sound more like lawyers than future doctors. Give this guy his transcript already so we can come to this forum to read about medical education!! Not about revenge, backstabbing, and "sticking it to whoever has done anything wrong to me!" Just the type of personalities and attitudes that make empathetic physicians.

  7. #46
    Japhethi is offline Temporarily Banned
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    lawyers or doctors?

    Quote Originally Posted by jbuzz
    The main people posting on this thread sound more like lawyers than future doctors. Give this guy his transcript already so we can come to this forum to read about medical education!! Not about revenge, backstabbing, and "sticking it to whoever has done anything wrong to me!" Just the type of personalities and attitudes that make empathetic physicians.


    Couldn't agree more with you. The sooner this thing is ended, the sooner we can revert back to exchanging relevant information. Also, if anyone have any doubts still, the licensing boards are visiting this site regularly and I don't think they are too impressed either.


    Sons Of Jafeth

  8. #47
    KCC
    KCC is offline Newbie
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    MUA Belize

    I have been following the info in Value MD since I decided to got to medical school 3 years ago and have learned a lot since my decision. AZ Sceptic has made me rethink many of my early school decisions as has my cousin who attends MUA Belize. The only bad thing my cousin did tell me about MUA was that it is run with a heavy hand and they sometimes market deceptively (I guess many schools in the Caribbean can be attacked for this).
    I guess the point is that MUA is one of the schools in Belize I will be applying for next spring and my cousin mentioned that Belize has written up new charters for the schools in their country that requires them to prove affiliations at ACGME hospitals, teach to LCME standards and so on. He also pointed out an article in the local paper

    (http://www.ambergristoday.com/archiv...ex.html#story1)

    where MUA claims they are the first and only chartered in Belize with the new charter. He said this isn't true but I can't find out any info on the new charter to check it out for myself and he is only going by what he heard from a student from another school.
    Does anyone have any info regarding the new charters? If MUA is lying about this it could mean that they do not meet the guidelines and might not be able to get chartered. I just don't want to waste my time if they don't have it in place and I worry that if they are misleading me in this they might be misleading me in other ways. I am also wondering why students wrote the article?

    Thanks for any help!

    Kaycee

  9. #48
    KCC
    KCC is offline Newbie
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    MUA Belize

    I have been following the info in Value MD since I decided to got to medical school 3 years ago and have learned a lot since my decision. AZ Sceptic has made me rethink many of my early school decisions as has my cousin who attends MUA Belize. The only bad thing my cousin did tell me about MUA was that it is run with a heavy hand and they sometimes market deceptively (I guess many schools in the Caribbean can be attacked for this).
    I guess the point is that MUA is one of the schools in Belize I will be applying for next spring and my cousin mentioned that Belize has written up new charters for the schools in their country that requires them to prove affiliations at ACGME hospitals, teach to LCME standards and so on. He also pointed out an article in the local paper

    (http://www.ambergristoday.com/archiv...ex.html#story1)

    where MUA claims they are the first and only chartered in Belize with the new charter. He said this isn't true but I can't find out any info on the new charter to check it out for myself and he is only going by what he heard from a student from another school.
    Does anyone have any info regarding the new charters? If MUA is lying about this it could mean that they do not meet the guidelines and might not be able to get chartered. I just don't want to waste my time if they don't have it in place and I worry that if they are misleading me in this they might be misleading me in other ways. I am also wondering why students wrote the article?

    Thanks for any help!

    Kaycee

  10. #49
    Japhethi is offline Temporarily Banned
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    No problem.

    I don't think the charter issue is something you should worry about concerning MUA or even most other schools.

    It is relatively easy for a school to get chartered and also (of course) an absolute essential to be WHO listed.

    I am not saying MUA is great, but rather that I doubt the school will have problems with having a charter or not (although you never know). Also, the owner of the school is very experienced with these issues and would know how to deal with the problem should it arise.


    Sons of Jafeth

  11. #50
    Japhethi is offline Temporarily Banned
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    Motivation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TooOld?
    What is your personal motivation for posting this?

    If you want credibility then I suggest that you attach your name and contact information, your involvement, and your motivation for posting the above.
    Come on Too old, do you really xpect ppl here to tag in their name address and whatever else if they have some issues??

    What bout posting the SSN as well?

    I disagree with his extreme approaches, but behind the lines I see someone that is really frustrated.


    Sons Of Jafeth

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