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  1. #1
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    Here is why you should avoid SABA/MUA

    I have been in contact with may people who have transfered out of SABA and MUA. I have permission to share 2 of many emails I have received. The moderators have FORCED me to remove the personal contact information of the authors of the emails. If you email me I will provide you with their contact details so you can verify this information and come to your own conclusion.

    Hopefully this will force the admin (Dr. ***) to release our transcripts with out changing our grades.

    Email #1

    I got this email this morning from ***l *****.

    He used to teach at MUA Belize.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: ** [mailto:]
    Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 4:37 AM
    To: Dr. *************
    Subject: Re: What is the Status?

    My friend:


    I will never give up and I am sorry for being silent for this long. The reason is simple: I am in Europe and was looking for an apartment and getting certain papers done. I am now at the end of this process and I will let you know very soon. We need to file as a group with the following agencies: USMLE, all 50 attorney generals, all 50 licensing medical boards, all 50 education boards, the department of education, all loan agencies that ***** (SABA/MUA) works with such as Terri loans etc., all 50 governors, and all 100 senators. Our filing should be electronic to Massachusetts attorney general and cc to all others so there will be no complaisance with our claim. Also, we need to keep sending the same claim to other agencies as new ideas come up. So from your side please save some time daily to find out some e-mail addresses for the institution mentioned above. I am already tabulating such list. An electronic complaint will be very easy to do.

    One more thing any body who needs to join this effort must send us an e-mail attesting so and clearly indicating his desire to pursue the claims. That way we will be covered.

    I am so happy where I am. Has nothing to do with the ridicule of Caribbean medical schools. These schools are in English, you are licensed in the country of study and in the rest of the world including all the 50 states. I am also a full Professor of Microbiology and in a fully recognized school.

    Those students that you gave me their names I did send them messages.

    I am waiting for your suggestions.


    Email #2


    I am an American citizen currently attending the Medial University of the Americas, Belize Campus (MUA) on a student visa. I have been here since January 8, 2003. Due to an unfortunate set of events, which occurred yesterday, August 18, 2003, I am lodging a formal complaint against MUA, and am requesting appropriate action be taken to resolve this matter.

    I have recently decided to transfer from MUA to the Central American Health Sciences University (CAHSU) in Belize City for both personal and professional reasons. As a professional (I am a mature – I think that is the politically-correct term for 52 years of age - student with a doctorate in Physiology, University of Arizona, 1989) and out of respect for the professionalism of the Administrators of MUA, both here and in the U.S., I met with the Dean of the school, Dr. ** ***, to inform her of my plans to transfer, especially because we had been discussing the possibility of my teaching the Epidemiology Course next semester. I choose this course of action despite warnings from both faculty members and students of the vindictiveness this administration of MUA has exhibited in the past. She advised me my decision to transfer is a bad decision because CAHSU is neither accredited nor chartered, it has sanctions against it in three states, and most states will not issue medical licenses to CAHSU graduates. These statements are untrue. She also admonished me not to tell any of the MUA students. I agreed not to indiscriminately broadcast it, but that I would, of course, tell my friends. I have become quite close with several of my “step-children” here, as most of the students are the same ages as my sons.

    Things proceeded normally after that (so I thought) and I did a couple of classroom presentations and was doing the last “power studying” the weekend before my final exams. Yesterday, I came in for class, as usual, and while waiting for class to begin, both Dr. *** *** and Dr. ***, husband and President of MUA, came in and I greeted them with my normal cheery hell-o. Dr. *** asked if I had a couple of minutes and I said sure, thinking I just needed to fill out my withdrawal form, which I had not yet done. Not so, instead, he indicated to me that four MUA students have filed formal complaints against me for aggressively harassing them, to the point where they could not study, to transfer to CAHSU. This is absolutely not true – I didn’t talk to the people I don’t know well about my transfer, and, because I care so much about my friends, the very last thing I would do is to even try to pressure them to move to CAHSU. Dr. *** went on to say that these students also filed complaints with the Consortium office in Massachusetts (MUA, Belize is one of three schools in a Consortium comprised of Saba University, and MUA Nevis and Belize campuses).

    Until very recently (within the past two weeks) MUA Belize did not have a Charter and was operating under the Charter of its sister campus, MUA Nevis. Dr. *** indicated to me that He had received reports from, again unnamed students that I was saying that their newly-issued Charter is valid for a one-year period, during which time they must meet the stipulations set forth in that Charter. I did say something similar to that in response to a direct question from one student I don’t know that well who approached me, not the other way around, prefacing it with “I am not an attorney, but the way I read it is….” I do not know if this is the student to whom Dr. *** is referring – I do know that this is what I said, and I do not recall discussing this issue with other students. As communicated to me during this meeting, Dr. *** asked two students to approach me with questions he prepared for them to see how I would respond. Again, as the students are unnamed by Dr. ***, I cannot say whether this individual was one of the students Dr. *** asked to set me up. He also said my name had been mentioned in reference to a report to the press, but refused to provide any more information than that. I have since learned that the press has no stories linked to my name, does not have my name, and, in fact, has never heard of me.

    Based on this information, Dr. *** informed me he called a meeting of the Board of Directors for MUA to discuss the matter. He indicated to me that this was followed up yesterday morning with a four-hour phone call between Dr. ***** (President of the Consortium) and himself, when they unilaterally decided I was to be suspended immediately, kicked off the campus and not allowed to take my final exams, with no recourse. At the end of their “investigation”, if they find the charges are not true, I was told by Dr. *** that my grades will be recorded as they currently stand – an A in Physiology, an A in Biochemistry and a B in Medical Psychology.

    When I was given a brief chance to respond to these allegations, I asked him how they could come to such a harsh and punitive decision in the absence of any input from me whatsoever. He replied the “This is a private school. I can suspend anyone at anytime I see fit, and without recourse from the student.” I then asked him for the names of the students, which he refused to provide. He went on to tell me that this is a litigious situation and MUA has filed legal action against me because, in expressing my opinion of what the Charter states, I am acting as and agent of MUA and in that capacity, I slandered and libeled the school. He even hinted that he had a written document written by me that is consistent with his allegations, which is impossible.

    I informed Dr. *** that I could immediately get signatures from all the first and second semester students I talked to on a petition confirming that I did not in anyway coerce them into going to CAHSU, in fact, quite the opposite; I encouraged them to stay at MUA because a portion of my reason for transferring is personal, which does not apply to them. *** then replied that the recruitment of students is not the issue, which is completely inconsistent with how he began the discussion, but that my illegal actions as an agent of MUA are what he has deemed as unprofessional and, based on that assessment, I am suspended for “Unprofessional Conduct”. I repeatedly told him that I did not at any time represent myself as an agent, that at the time I was, as it turns out, set up to answer the question by (if my assumption is correct, an attorney) I said multiple times that I am not an attorney. He did concede at this point that there may have been a misinterpretation of what I said, but wasn’t about to budge in his decision to suspend me and not allow me to take the final examinations necessary to complete my coursework.

    Dr. *** went on to inform me that I should get an attorney to represent me in an attorney myself. He said I would indeed need the petition I mentioned, but I am forbidden from talking to any students until their finals are over, knowing that when finals are over, the first thing students do is get on a plane. Since Dr. ***’s discussion with me, I have learned that Dr. *** has, in her capacity of Dean, spoken to at least one class of first semester students and told them that I was suspended, not for recruiting students, but for defaming MUA.

    Shortly after my conversation with Dr. ***, I left San Pedro, where MUA rents a portion of the Belize Yacht Club, where it rents space for its medical school to come to Belize City. During this visit I have spoken to the CEO of the Ministry of Education and Youth Sports, Dr. ****, whose official signature is on the Charter. She has assured me that this document provides MUA with a one-year period during which the school must meet strictly defined, comprehensive standards in order to have the Charter extending for an operating period of three years, at which time MUA will again be evaluated by the Ministry of Education and Youth Sports. Thus, any remarks I made regarding the Charter being valid for a one-year period during which time the stipulations set forth in the Charter must be met are, in fact, correct. I have not in any way, regardless of “misinterpretations” libeled, slandered or defamed MUA – I simply spoke the truth.

    I am requesting you intercede, as appropriate to rectify the following matters with respect to this truly unfortunate incident:

    1) I have fulfilled my obligations to MUA by paying my tuition on time, attending classes as scheduled within the policies for absenteeism established by MUA, and handed in all assignments, completed all classroom presentations and written all exam, with the exception of the final examinations, from which I was prohibited from taking by MUA administration. I am requesting MUA be required to meet their obligations by immediately releasing ALL of my grades, at a level consistent with documentation provided to me by the instructors, immediately by FedEx to the following address:
    ***** *****
    *********
    ********

    2) I have not said anything regarding MUA that is inconsistent with the truth. I am requesting Drs. and *** be served official notice to cease from continuing to use their capacities as President and Dean of MUA to continue to defame me.
    3) As part of the fees for the first semester, students are assessed a $250.00 slide fee, which is refunded to the students upon MUA’s receipt of the slides in good condition. I fulfilled my obligations in returning the slides intact, which was recorded at the end of the previous semester in late April. I have not yet received the refund of the deposit. I would like to have it refunded to me immediately to the address listed in point 1.


    I simply want to be allowed to pursue my medical education at CAHSU. I have no interest in MUA. I just want them to refund my $250.00 deposit, then leave me alone and let me get on with my life to leave them behind, as an unfortunate (thankfully short) chapter in my life experiences. Thank you for whatever assistance with which you are able to provide me in regards to this matter.


    Sincerely,



    ******* ******

    This is truely SCARY STUFF, if this can happen to their instructor/students what chance do the rest of us have.

    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger.............

    -------------------------------------
    Edited by Moderator on 12/6/03 at 1:23 pm EST for containing personal infomation without permission of the individuals. Please note that the user was asked and cooperated to a minimal extent, but refused to comply fully.

  2. #11
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    Rumor's

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    ToOLD,

    I supplied names numbers and everything you need to verify this info and you call it a rumor. Maybe, just maybe your from the SABA/MUA clan. Yes that explains it.

    Oh did you hear the rumor: the World may actually be round. Video at six.

    Oh by the way just in case I don't get my transcript how much does journalism pay?????????


    Don't shoot me, no **** it shoot me please............................

    ------------------------------
    Edited by Moderator on 12/6/03 at 1:33 pm EST for containing vulgar language. Edited portion signified by "*" sybmol.

  3. #12
    SKL
    SKL is offline Member 510 points
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    sorry I don't believe you, messenger.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Messenger
    Revenge,

    All I want is my TRANSCRIPT, with about 20 other people. I have been jerked around and around and around. They have made me call the island to be told "we don't have your Transcript here call Massachusettes", then when you call Mass they say "we don't have your Transcript here call the island" but they took my fee for the transcript. So all of us screwed over students tired of having Dr. SABA screw with our lives are planning to complain to who ever will listen. Including the Attorney General Office. That is why I have so many emails all telling about the horrors at SABA and MUA.

    When we file our official complaints, we will attach our real names, phone numbers, and everything and anything necessary.

    P.S. since we were all on one island or the other, boy do we have some dirt to spread. Maybe you can clear something up for me? was it the DEAN on Nevius or an instructor that got a student pregnant? regardless you know she passed.

    Also do they still hold those 15 point (added to your final grade) manditory parties at the Deans house?

    You have to understand my anger, the F*ckers at my new school won't let me move on with out my transcript. So, Dr. F is really screwing up my future. Oh, just for reference I was 3rd in my class, never failed a class and transfered because we had NO clinical spots at MUA. Even students that passed the boards were given one 6 wk rotation and told they could wait up to a year for their next rotation at MUA.

    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger...........
    I really don't believe what you're saying (if you are saying the Nevis campus):

    1. I have been here 4 terms now, I didn't realize any mandatory parties at the Deans house. But we do have party after every black monday held in different local restaurants, and free food is provided. AND that's optional. Most people love to go for the free food.

    2. If you finished 3rd in your class (I am assuming you have passed your board too), I don't believe you'll have no clinical spot. Usually school will try to accomodate the top students. If you're up that high and with no clinical, are you saying MUA doesn't even have 3 clinical rotation spots. Personally I knew one student, just finished in Aug, is now in clinical (a 12 wk clinical). He started his clinical just few days after he wrote his step I, even before receiving his score. He is one of the top students in his class.

    3. Regarding the transcript, usually students here in Nevis receive an unoffical transcript around the 3rd or 4th wk at the beginning of each term for the previous terms. If it is similar for the 5th term, you should at least have an unofficial one which has all your scores for all courses. Even you don't have the 5th semester one, you should at least have your 4th semester one (which include term 1 - 4), showing all A's, then give it to your new school, they should be able to help you somehow or at least to evaluate whether to trust your words or not.

    4. The pregnancy part? I can't verify, but it's the first time I hear it.

  4. #13
    TooOld? is offline Member
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    Calm Down!

    Originally posted by Messenger
    ToOLD,

    I supplied names numbers and everything you need to verify this info and you call it a rumor. Maybe, just maybe your from the SABA/MUA clan. Yes that explains it.

    Oh did you hear the rumor: the World may actually be round. Video at six.

    Oh by the way just in case I don't get my transcript how much does journalism pay?????????
    Messenger:

    I have not even applied to a school yet. I am still trying to make a decision. I have no dog in this fight at all. I just think you are trolling, and going about this the wrong way. No hard feelings, I just don’t think that rumors have any place on this forum. Now, when you say that you can’t get clinicals, and that they will not release your transcripts I find that troubling, but mixed in with the other loses its credibility. You see what I am saying?


    Originally posted by Messenger
    Don't shoot me, no F*CK it shoot me please............................
    At least you still have humor.

  5. #14
    jbuzz is offline Junior Member
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    weather the storm

    It seems like everyone involved in these complaints would do well to keep pursuing a correct course of action.... but do it in a not so threatening, not so malicious way. You chose to attend a foreign medical school, and you certainly aren't helping the cause of the hundreds of other students that are trying to make it down there. It doesn't matter if you go to the most sober, boring, straight shooting university in the world.... they've still got their dirty laundry. It doesn't help to have you airing that laundry in the way you are going about it. Choose a better course of action, and show some dignity and respect... even if you have been the one that has been wronged.

  6. #15
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    Agree/Disagree

    jbuzz,

    Why would it be OK for the med school to act in a malicious manner and not for wronged students to react in the same manner.

    Yes, you are right every school has dirty laundry but not every school acts in such a unprofessional manner. Please read my original post and you will read of LIES, DECEPTION, THREATS, Vengience, and retailation.

    Sounds like the Stephen King School of Medicine.

    I say lets make them accountable for their actions.

    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger

  7. #16
    IknowitALl is offline Member
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    Agree/Disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by The Messenger
    jbuzz,

    Why would it be OK for the med school to act in a malicious manner and not for wronged students to react in the same manner.

    Yes, you are wright every school has dirty laundry but not every school acts in such a unprofessional manner. Please read my original post and you will read of LIES, DECEPTION, THREATS, Vengience, and retailation.

    Sounds like the Stephen King School of Medicine.

    I say lets make them accountable for their actions.

    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger
    Hi mate...did all this happen to you or to a friend of yours????

  8. #17
    jguru2 is offline Member 510 points
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    saba/mua

    have you tried resolving these problems through the institution's primary accrediting board/charter issuer, ie through SABA/ST KITTS-NEVIS's. Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Education maybe? I am not sure how much legal recourse you could get from the US since they do not operate centrally in the US soil. Although I guess if you shout loud enough...the "squeakiest wheel" and all that.

    just my ramblings.
    -------------------------------------------------
    Carpe Diem
    -------------------------------------------------
    St. Matthew's University School of Medicine
    -------------------------------------------------

  9. #18
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    Go back

    Read the original post



    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger....................

  10. #19
    64microbus is offline Newbie
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    MUA/SABA

    Messenger, I have no problem with your original posting. In fact, that's part of the reason I come to this site: to gather more information about the respective Caribbean schools. Outside of not paying one's fees, I can't think of a good reason to withhold one's transcripts.

    I'll bet on reflection, you'll probably regret the comments about the 15 points and the pregnancies, but I can understand your anger. If I were to sleep with the dean's wife, pants the mascot, verbally trash my school, and transfer to the rival school - I should be able to get my transcripts on demand.

    Even if the student who wrote that email did what the administration accused him of, the truth probably lies someplace in the middle, he should still be able to get his transcripts!

    I wasn't really considering SABA or MUA, but if I were, I'd reconsider. If the schools I'm considereing engaged in such nonprofessional (treacherous?) practices, I'd reconsider applying there too.

    When people spill their guts with grievances about a school, I want to read them. Sure some of them may have hidden agendas, but I'm well aware of this. Does anybody think these guys aren't entitled to their transcripts? What would you do if you were in their position? I'd probably vent too.

  11. #20
    The Messenger is offline Permanently Banned
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    True response

    Thank you, yes my post have a lot of anger and fustration in them. You have to realize student tuitions are a big business and the reason they hold your transcript is if the current program you had just transfer into wont let you continue, then you have to return to your original program. Thus increased revenue = more profit. All of these off shore and foreign medical schools are run by one or two people. There are no board of trustees or any regulatory bodies to complain to. Thus you have instructors getting high with students and sleeping with them (especially if they need to pass).

    So yes, I have aired a lot of dirty laundy but ask yourself which load am I in right now. We hear all the rumors when we first arrive on campus and think if we ignore them they will never affect us. This is so untrue, they do affect us. I guess it's true what they say about a tiger changing it's stripes.


    Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger..............

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