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  1. #1
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Impact of the New York 12 week rule?

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    Originally posted by magyarorszag69 after a meeting where NY officials met with Debrecen students and recently confirmed by mutig25 it seems that the bad news is true. (They still hasn't replied to my e-mails.)

    That is: If one exceeds 12 weeks of clinical rotations elsewhere (defined as outside the country of the home medical school) and the school is NOT approved, one is NOT eligible for residency in NY State (though maybe eligible for licensure).

    To date, there are only two schools from this region approved in NY:

    # English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
    # English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland

    Why is this rule key to USIMGs and FMGs from the region heading to the US?

    NY State relies on residents for many of its health services and a result has (if I recall correctly) the highest number of residency position by a single state.

    I for one did not know about the NY rule, as I was more concerned with California and as a result completed clerkships well in excess of the 12 week limit.

    So, I may have plenty of North American (and other) clinical experience, but residency in NY State is for the time being out (unless I can convince my administration to apply and get approved).

    The poll question above is for CE students who desire to do their residency in the U.S.

    Feel free to chime in with your opinion.

    Miklos

  2. #2
    neilc is offline Permanently Banned
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    stay eligible in as many states as possible! the 12 weeks of clinicals are more than enough, IMHO. i have about that, and it has been plenty for letters, etc...

    also, at least here, you really cannot do too much more than that for credit anyhow. so, if you need more weeks, just do them during the summers, and blow of the credit.

  3. #3
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by neilc
    stay eligible in as many states as possible! the 12 weeks of clinicals are more than enough, IMHO. i have about that, and it has been plenty for letters, etc...

    also, at least here, you really cannot do too much more than that for credit anyhow. so, if you need more weeks, just do them during the summers, and blow of the credit.
    Neil,

    I'm not sure that blowing off the credit is entirely legal, though to be honest I have considered it (in other words, it need not appear on my transcript).

    Miklos

  4. #4
    mutig25 is offline Member
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    Re: Impact of the New York 12 week rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklos
    Originally posted by magyarorszag69 after a meeting where NY officials met with Debrecen students and recently confirmed by mutig25 it seems that the bad news is true. (They still hasn't replied to my e-mails.)

    That is: If one exceeds 12 weeks of clinical rotations elsewhere (defined as outside the country of the home medical school) and the school is NOT approved, one is NOT eligible for residency or licensure in NY State.

    To date, there are only two schools from this region approved in NY:

    # English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
    # English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland

    Why is this rule key to USIMGs and FMGs from the region heading to the US?

    NY State relies on residents for many of its health services and a result has (if I recall correctly) the highest number of residency position by a single state.

    I for one did not know about the NY rule, as I was more concerned with California and as a result completed clerkships well in excess of the 12 week limit.

    So, I may have plenty of North American (and other) clinical experience, but residency/licensure in NY State is for the time being out (unless I can convince my administration to apply and get approved).

    The poll question above is for CE students who desire to do their residency in the U.S.

    Feel free to chime in with your opinion.

    Miklos
    Miklos, I think you have part of that incorrect.

    From what I'm getting, if you do more than 12 weeks of rotations (core or elective) outside of the country in which your medical school is located, then you are not eligible for residency in New York, unless of course, you are a student of one of the foreign medical schools on their list. You may be eligible for residency, though. See the next paragraph.

    However, if you do more than 12 weeks of rotations within the State of New York, then you are not eligible for licensure there, unless of course, you are a student of one of the foreign medical schools on their list.

    So, if your school is not on the list and you want to do residency and get licensed there, don't do more than 12 weeks of rotations outside of the country where your medical school is located.

    However, if residency is not a concern but you do want to be licensed there, then you can do more than 12 weeks of rotations outside of the country where your medical school is located but no more than 12 in New York.

    That's how I've interpreted Mr. ****** response. However, don't take my word for it. Call or email him directly.
    Graduate: Class of 2008, 4yr MD
    Poznan University of Medical Sciences
    Poznan, Poland

    Student Website: Hidden Content

    University Website: Hidden Content

    NY Admissions Office Website: Hidden Content

    "Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

    - Leonardo da Vinci

  5. #5
    carbon is offline Member
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    12 week

    I have always advocated deviating as little as possible from the curriculum of foreign medical schools b/c when applying for a license, little things like this sneak up and nip you in the butt. The 12 week rule has been around a while and I was fortunate to have picked up on it during my clinical years, although it didn't matter as I did not end up in NY.

    See if you can reclassify your rotations outside the parent institution as "observerships" or "research time". It comes down to what is on your final transcript from Hungary. Wording is everything. I'm sure if you need to get into NY there is a way around the 12 week stipulation.

  6. #6
    mutig25 is offline Member
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    Re: Impact of the New York 12 week rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by mutig25
    Quote Originally Posted by Miklos
    Originally posted by magyarorszag69 after a meeting where NY officials met with Debrecen students and recently confirmed by mutig25 it seems that the bad news is true. (They still hasn't replied to my e-mails.)

    That is: If one exceeds 12 weeks of clinical rotations elsewhere (defined as outside the country of the home medical school) and the school is NOT approved, one is NOT eligible for residency or licensure in NY State.

    To date, there are only two schools from this region approved in NY:

    # English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
    # English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland

    Why is this rule key to USIMGs and FMGs from the region heading to the US?

    NY State relies on residents for many of its health services and a result has (if I recall correctly) the highest number of residency position by a single state.

    I for one did not know about the NY rule, as I was more concerned with California and as a result completed clerkships well in excess of the 12 week limit.

    So, I may have plenty of North American (and other) clinical experience, but residency/licensure in NY State is for the time being out (unless I can convince my administration to apply and get approved).

    The poll question above is for CE students who desire to do their residency in the U.S.

    Feel free to chime in with your opinion.

    Miklos
    Miklos, I think you have part of that incorrect.

    From what I'm getting, if you do more than 12 weeks of rotations (core or elective) outside of the country in which your medical school is located, then you are not eligible for residency in New York, unless of course, you are a student of one of the foreign medical schools on their list. You may be eligible for residency, though. See the next paragraph.

    However, if you do more than 12 weeks of rotations within the State of New York, then you are not eligible for licensure there, unless of course, you are a student of one of the foreign medical schools on their list.

    So, if your school is not on the list and you want to do residency and get licensed there, don't do more than 12 weeks of rotations outside of the country where your medical school is located.

    However, if residency is not a concern but you do want to be licensed there, then you can do more than 12 weeks of rotations outside of the country where your medical school is located but no more than 12 in New York (unless, of course, your school is on the list).

    That's how I've interpreted Mr. ****** response. However, don't take my word for it. Call or email him directly.
    Graduate: Class of 2008, 4yr MD
    Poznan University of Medical Sciences
    Poznan, Poland

    Student Website: Hidden Content

    University Website: Hidden Content

    NY Admissions Office Website: Hidden Content

    "Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

    - Leonardo da Vinci

  7. #7
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Re: Impact of the New York 12 week rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by mutig25
    Miklos, I think you have part of that incorrect.

    From what I'm getting, if you do more than 12 weeks of rotations (core or elective) outside of the country in which your medical school is located, then you are not eligible for residency in New York, unless of course, you are a student of one of the foreign medical schools on their list. You may be eligible for residency, though. See the next paragraph.

    However, if you do more than 12 weeks of rotations within the State of New York, then you are not eligible for licensure there, unless of course, you are a student of one of the foreign medical schools on their list.

    So, if your school is not on the list and you want to do residency and get licensed there, don't do more than 12 weeks of rotations outside of the country where your medical school is located.

    However, if residency is not a concern but you do want to be licensed there, then you can do more than 12 weeks of rotations outside of the country where your medical school is located but no more than 12 in New York.

    That's how I've interpreted Mr. ****** response. However, don't take my word for it. Call or email him directly.
    Thanks for pointing that out.

    I've changed the original post, but the software won't allow me to change the poll question.

    Miklos

  8. #8
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Re: 12 week

    Quote Originally Posted by carbon
    I have always advocated deviating as little as possible from the curriculum of foreign medical schools b/c when applying for a license, little things like this sneak up and nip you in the butt. The 12 week rule has been around a while and I was fortunate to have picked up on it during my clinical years, although it didn't matter as I did not end up in NY.

    See if you can reclassify your rotations outside the parent institution as "observerships" or "research time". It comes down to what is on your final transcript from Hungary. Wording is everything. I'm sure if you need to get into NY there is a way around the 12 week stipulation.
    Good advice.

    Unfortunately, I made the mistake of listing ALL my clinical clerkships on the ECFMG application.

    This may preclude having them redefined.

    So, there's a lesson for others: Don't list your clerkships on the ECFMG application if you can avoid it.

    Miklos

  9. #9
    josephmedman is offline Member
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    about 12 week rule

    it is true..it took me forever and a million phone calls to find that same information out..i actually used to goto school in debrecen but transfered out..i have a friend who went to school in debrecen, applied for residency in NY, not only did he not get it, but the NY state board of regents placed a law suit against him..this is no lie..his name begins with a B..i would rather not say the name but this happened about 3 years ago..i really felt bad for him..bottom line..he is doign fine in residency in chicago now..anyways..my point is..dont leave anything out, dont apply to NY if you ahve done more than 12 weeks and have attained credit from yoru school..its not worth it..take care

  10. #10
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Re: about 12 week rule

    Quote Originally Posted by josephmedman
    it is true..it took me forever and a million phone calls to find that same information out..i actually used to goto school in debrecen but transfered out..i have a friend who went to school in debrecen, applied for residency in NY, not only did he not get it, but the NY state board of regents placed a law suit against him..this is no lie..his name begins with a B..i would rather not say the name but this happened about 3 years ago..i really felt bad for him..bottom line..he is doign fine in residency in chicago now..anyways..my point is..dont leave anything out, dont apply to NY if you ahve done more than 12 weeks and have attained credit from yoru school..its not worth it..take care
    If the board took action against him, it is public record. If you don't want to disclose his name, send me a pm and I'll try to look it up.

    Miklos

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