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  1. #1
    juls_sal is offline Newbie
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    Canadian...looking at euro schools

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    here goes...

    The last time I came close to a biology or chemistry text was back in 1997. Yes, I plan on making the effort of going back to night or adult school to prepare for med school.

    I would like peoples opinion on what they think of their school, about the program, the professors, about relocating and adjusting to a new culture, about the USMLE and how successful they've been in getting through....pros and cons?

    Would you recommend your school to an interested applicant? why or why not?

    Canada but specifically Toronto is too competitive, there are Einsteins but not enough schools. In the U.S there are way too many schools but high tuition costs so international students don't bother. My last option is Europe.

    They say North America is a land of opportunities!! Imagine this, a taxi driver who once used to be a doctor. You've gotta wonder...

  2. #2
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by juls_sal
    hey

    I am a Canadian with a B.A and looking at medical schools in Europe i.e Poland or Russia.

    Can anyone recommend or suggest accredited schools that are affiliated with the U.S.


    Thanks

    Julia
    I'm not certain that I understand your question.

    The legitimate schools in the region are all state owned/chartered and locally accredited. See the first page of the sticky on top of this forum for a partial list.

    What do you mean by a US affiliation? Are you looking for programs that provide clinical rotations in the US?

    Miklos

  3. #3
    gvanderv is offline Member 511 points
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    PUMS

    Hi,

    Try this:

    http://www.mdprogram.com/md/index.shtml

    There are a number of Canadians in my class. As Miklos is indicating we are not really affiliated with the U.S. But you can take the USMLE's. Just stay away from agents. A number of Schools in Poland use agents.

    Bye ........... Gerry

  4. #4
    cristagali is offline Junior Member
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    Eh?

    Lots of canadians at my school, too, in Debrecen. They seem to get lots of rotations back in canada in Toronto and halifax, etc. Also they seem to do well on ULSMLE too. Most of the english program schools don;t have formal rotations with hospitals in the states. But we all seem to find a place or two to hone our skills before graduating. DOTE has a semester with SUNY-Buffalo (Hungarian students only), but Simmelwies has a fifth pathway program with New York medical College. ANyway, it shouldn't be a problem to find rotations back in the states. (except PENN) HA! and of course avoid agents...contact school on your own and don't let them "refer" you to agent. Just apply on your own. good luck. 8)

  5. #5
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cristagali
    Lots of canadians at my school, too, in Debrecen. They seem to get lots of rotations back in canada in Toronto and halifax, etc. Also they seem to do well on ULSMLE too. Most of the english program schools don;t have formal rotations with hospitals in the states. But we all seem to find a place or two to hone our skills before graduating. DOTE has a semester with SUNY-Buffalo (Hungarian students only), but Simmelwies has a fifth pathway program with New York medical College. ANyway, it shouldn't be a problem to find rotations back in the states. (except PENN) HA! and of course avoid agents...contact school on your own and don't let them "refer" you to agent. Just apply on your own. good luck. 8)
    NB Anyone can do a fifth pathway, as long as their school allows it and they qualify. See http://www.nymc.edu/depthome/fifth.asp

  6. #6
    juls_sal is offline Newbie
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    miklos

    i'm looking at schools that prepare students for USMLE and have a high rate of graduates with residencies in the US.

    any tips?

  7. #7
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by juls_sal
    i'm looking at schools that prepare students for USMLE and have a high rate of graduates with residencies in the US.

    any tips?
    In Europe, IMO, Irish schools 'may' fit that bill. They attract a significant amount of North Americans and they seem to have little trouble getting back to the US/Canada. In addition, an Irish degree is also a gateway to the EU. Downsides: more than four years and very pricey.

    The problem is that none of the European schools (to my knowledge) so far publishes what I consider to be believable statistics on residencies or first time USMLE pass rates. Not even the Irish ones, though they claim near absolute numbers.
    (This issue has been beaten to death on this forum, so please excuse me for not elaborating. I'm certain the the KMU guys will opt to disagree, as is their right.)

    Outside of Europe: SGU/Ross/AUC; They each have a twenty five year history of getting their students residencies. SGU & Ross publish the names and residencies gained by their graduates. AUC only publishes the residencies. They have a proven track record. Downsides: Just as pricey as Ireland. Other downsides can be found by checking out their fora here on ValueMD.

    Good luck.

    Miklos

  8. #8
    gvanderv is offline Member 511 points
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    KMU Guys

    Hey,

    It kills me to agree with Miklos, but I'm in Poznan and I can't get any hard numbers. All I can say is you can pass the USMLE and get a residency in the US. You get out what you put into it. The pass rate anywhere outside the US will be lower, because of the quality of the students intering the program. A number of people in my class, probably the majority have no intention of going to the US. The classes until this year have been very small, maybe around twenty. My class has 65 people from all over the world.

    Bye ........... Gerry

  9. #9
    neongoat is offline Member
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    publishing real numbers

    With the exception of maybe 3 or 4, these foreign medical schools can't publish real graduation, USLME, and residency placement numbers from their American and Canadian students without opening themselves up to massive criticism and "bashing" from other schools, media, and potential students. This is because (unfortunately) almost every single Canadian or American student who goes to a foreign medical school is not able to go to school in their home country. This is not the case for everyone of course, but honestly, most of these students were not strong enough academically in their home country, and they are being forced to look to other schools.
    I am a very big supporter of foreign medical schools and I have met students at these schools who failed chemistry or had a bad MCAT score who were excellent students in medical school and I believe will make excellent doctors. I have also met many students who cannot solve basic problems well using science and I would be scared to leave them alone to diagnose and treat patients. But to ask these schools to present accurate data concerning the number of students who fail or quit or cannot pass the USMLE is really asking a lot. Another way to look at it is this: If they had this data to report and were proud of it, then they definitely would report it. So when you don't see it, I believe you can safely assume that compared to American/Canadian schools they have significantly higher drop out rates, lower or non-existent MCAT scores, lower USMLE scores, and lower rates of residency matching for their American/Canadian students. If, however, you hypothetically placed one of these foreign schools from Ireland, Czech republic, or even Moscow in Boston and called it Harvard, without changing any aspect of the curriculum I think you would see dramatic increases in USMLE scores and residency matches. My point is that many of these foreign medical schools are faced with a foreign student body that is academically much weaker than the American/Canadian medical schools. I am not an expert and this is just my impression from my brief time at UAG in Mexico.

    Does any of this mean that you cannot go to any of these foreign medical schools and get a good education and match in residency, of course not! That all depends on the kind of person you are.

    As most of the veterans here will tell you, visiting the school is a priceless experience. Unfortunately, visiting the Palacky medical school in rural Czech Republic or Moscow State Medical Academy is not an easy task for many of us

  10. #10
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Publishing data

    Quote Originally Posted by neongoat
    With the exception of maybe 3 or 4, these foreign medical schools can't publish real graduation, USLME, and residency placement numbers from their American and Canadian students without opening themselves up to massive criticism and "bashing" from other schools, media, and potential students. This is because (unfortunately) almost every single Canadian or American student who goes to a foreign medical school is not able to go to school in their home country. This is not the case for everyone of course, but honestly, most of these students were not strong enough academically in their home country, and they are being forced to look to other schools.
    I am a very big supporter of foreign medical schools and I have met students at these schools who failed chemistry or had a bad MCAT score who were excellent students in medical school and I believe will make excellent doctors. I have also met many students who cannot solve basic problems well using science and I would be scared to leave them alone to diagnose and treat patients. But to ask these schools to present accurate data concerning the number of students who fail or quit or cannot pass the USMLE is really asking a lot. Another way to look at it is this: If they had this data to report and were proud of it, then they definitely would report it. So when you don't see it, I believe you can safely assume that compared to American/Canadian schools they have significantly higher drop out rates, lower or non-existent MCAT scores, lower USMLE scores, and lower rates of residency matching for their American/Canadian students. If, however, you hypothetically placed one of these foreign schools from Ireland, Czech republic, or even Moscow in Boston and called it Harvard, without changing any aspect of the curriculum I think you would see dramatic increases in USMLE scores and residency matches. My point is that many of these foreign medical schools are faced with a foreign student body that is academically much weaker than the American/Canadian medical schools. I am not an expert and this is just my impression from my brief time at UAG in Mexico.

    Does any of this mean that you cannot go to any of these foreign medical schools and get a good education and match in residency, of course not! That all depends on the kind of person you are.

    As most of the veterans here will tell you, visiting the school is a priceless experience. Unfortunately, visiting the Palacky medical school in rural Czech Republic or Moscow State Medical Academy is not an easy task for many of us
    I see what you are saying, but nevertheless I disagree.

    The schools in this region have an extremely high attrition rate, partly for the reasons you describe above, partly because that's the system. The locals are 'weeded out' just as brutally, at least in Hungary. (Professor's attitude can be described like this: "So...you want to become a doctor? Let's see how you deal with failure.")

    This speaks to the strength of the system as perceived by locals, not potential weaknesses.

    My take is that if a school goes out of its way to recruit North Americans (and not all six year programs do), it should be forthright with them.

    There is nothing wrong with advertising in the following manner:

    Yes, our school has a relatively liberal admissions policy. This, however, does not mean that everyone that enters graduates. In fact, we have a high attrition rate, as some of our foreign students either have difficulty adjusting to the system or are not adequately prepared. However, we offer the possibilty of learning medicine and a chance for the individual to succeed. Our statistics are as follows...

    Miklos

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