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Thread: Poland or Germany/Rest of EU?

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    Idler is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Poland or Germany/Rest of EU?

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    Hi there, I just have a couple of questions regarding doing medicine in Europe. I'm a Canadian, I just graduated from University, my cumulative average was 80. I took my MCAT and scored 31P, which isn't great, but still good. I was looking at Europe as a possibility to complete an MD degree, the US is too expensive, and Canada is proving difficult. I looked at the English programs in Poland, and Jag really interested me because of it's lower tuition, and possibility of rotations in the US. I want to work in the US post-grad-probably California, and I bookmarked their list, and most likely become a psychiatrist.

    I have also read about Germany, and how they have cheaper tuition (a lot cheaper) and are recognized more. Germany and several other countries offer low tuiton, but education in their language, and I have to pass a sort of test. I am pretty good with languages, so I don't think I'll need more than a year to pass the test.

    I guess my question is, does Germany accept credits I've taken in Canada towards their degree, say drop it from 6 years to 4? And what would you do in my situation? Thanks!

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    No, you will not likely be able to drop the German program to 4 years... even if they accept some of your credit, which is far from guaranteed. German schools are great, but not generally known for their flexibility in things like that.

    In the interests of time, in your situation I would attend Jag. You could do a lot worse than living in Krakow! Bear in mind, however, that the match in the US is getting a lot more competitive over the coming few years as the new US medical schools start to graduate new physicians, and you would need a visa, making things even more challenging. On the good side, psychiatry is generally among the less-competitive matches, so you would have a shot. Good luck to you...

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    Idler is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc8404 View Post
    No, you will not likely be able to drop the German program to 4 years... even if they accept some of your credit, which is far from guaranteed. German schools are great, but not generally known for their flexibility in things like that.

    In the interests of time, in your situation I would attend Jag. You could do a lot worse than living in Krakow! Bear in mind, however, that the match in the US is getting a lot more competitive over the coming few years as the new US medical schools start to graduate new physicians, and you would need a visa, making things even more challenging. On the good side, psychiatry is generally among the less-competitive matches, so you would have a shot. Good luck to you...
    Thanks a lot, but the match will be more competitive for domestic and foreign trained doctors, correct? I think my best bet is Jag, just have to research it a bit more. Would you say it would be doable to match into residency right after 4th year? And when should I write my USMLE, during first year at Jag?

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    1) The match will be more competitive all around, but foreign grads (especially those requiring a visa) are at a distinct disadvantage. All things being equal (or even unequal, in many cases), foreign grads are relegated behind US grads. The more US grads there are, the more it sucks for FMGs.
    2) I agree that Jag is a good option. Probably one of the best in E-EU.
    3) Doable, yeah, of course. Jag has a strong match history. However, it is impossible to predict whether you would match into residency after graduation, as that depends on your personal board performance, your intellectual and technical abilities in medicine, your own personal contacts and how well you interview... etc. Again, Jag does have an excellent track record in that regard, but the game is changing substantially so it is hard to predict with any sort of certainty how things will progress in the coming 4 years.
    4) No, you cannot take USMLE Step 1 until after your second year of medical school. It isn't allowed by ECFMG, and you haven't taken the courses to prepare you for it before that point, anyway. Remember, however, that you need more than just Step 1 to match... you also need to take 2CK and 2CS (the latter of which is only offered in the US). Ideally, your time frame for completion of the USMLE Steps would be: Step 1 after your MS2 year, Step 2CK during/after your MS3 year, and Step 2CS several months before you apply for residency, which is the September before you graduate. (Word to the wise, way in advance: Do not wait too long to sign up for 2CS when the time comes, or you could end up getting aced out of a testing spot... which will screw with your match opportunities for that year. That, um, happened to me this year.)

    Hope that helps...
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    Any thoughts about EU options other than Germany and Poland?

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    devildoc8404's Avatar
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    (I would have recommended y'all, Tipton, but for the OP's mention of budgetary concerns. )

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    Idler is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc8404 View Post
    1) The match will be more competitive all around, but foreign grads (especially those requiring a visa) are at a distinct disadvantage. All things being equal (or even unequal, in many cases), foreign grads are relegated behind US grads. The more US grads there are, the more it sucks for FMGs.
    2) I agree that Jag is a good option. Probably one of the best in E-EU.
    3) Doable, yeah, of course. Jag has a strong match history. However, it is impossible to predict whether you would match into residency after graduation, as that depends on your personal board performance, your intellectual and technical abilities in medicine, your own personal contacts and how well you interview... etc. Again, Jag does have an excellent track record in that regard, but the game is changing substantially so it is hard to predict with any sort of certainty how things will progress in the coming 4 years.
    4) No, you cannot take USMLE Step 1 until after your second year of medical school. It isn't allowed by ECFMG, and you haven't taken the courses to prepare you for it before that point, anyway. Remember, however, that you need more than just Step 1 to match... you also need to take 2CK and 2CS (the latter of which is only offered in the US). Ideally, your time frame for completion of the USMLE Steps would be: Step 1 after your MS2 year, Step 2CK during/after your MS3 year, and Step 2CS several months before you apply for residency, which is the September before you graduate. (Word to the wise, way in advance: Do not wait too long to sign up for 2CS when the time comes, or you could end up getting aced out of a testing spot... which will screw with your match opportunities for that year. That, um, happened to me this year.)

    Hope that helps...
    Let me get time line straight, for Step 2 CS, I do it before the September I graduate, is med school 12 months? or am I missing something here, do I apply for residency during 4th year, so I should do my CS before 4th? Kinda confused here, and thank you for the info!

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    It depends on the academic schedule and timeline for your school. I believe that the Jag schedule is pretty standard, SEP-to-JUN (check with the Jag people on VMD for verification on that, though... I'm not at Jag). My school, on the other hand, adds in a pre-graduation EU internship to the mix, making the last year 13-14 months long, and we don't graduate for another 3-4 months after that. (Ugh... friggin' shoot me now.) Some of the Carib schools start three classes a year, and only the September starting class coincides with the US academic calendar.

    At any rate, you would want to apply for the match during the September immediately before you graduate. In a standard-academic-year-type program, that would mean that you want your 2CS score (OK, it's pass/fail, but you know what I mean) reported by the September before you graduate, in the following June. Ideally, that would mean taking the 2CS exam sometime (3 months) before school starts in your MS4 year.

    Now granted, that can get completely wonky if you are in one of the Carib or EU programs that doesn't graduate in June, but that is the normal timeline to follow if you are in (or close to) lockstep with the US medical school academic calendar. Regardless, since that is the calendar that the match follows, it is good to at least bear it in mind.

    "When I haven't any
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    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


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    ..........
    Last edited by Tipton; 08-18-2018 at 04:36 PM.

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