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Thread: A good option?

  1. #1
    Scared_medic is offline Newbie 511 points
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    A good option?

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    Hello,

    I was advised by someone here (to which I am grateful) to consider Jagiellonian for medical school entry. I have researched on the school and it does seem a viable option.

    A bit about me: I am a Nigerian, graduated from a UK university with a first class in Biomedical Sciences, gained admission to a UK university for medicine but could not afford to go. I recently gained admission into the USA to study for an MPH in Community Health. I have not yet accepted the offer.

    Please, I would appreciate if a few questions are answered for me.

    1) Considering my creds, what are my prospects for admission to Jagiellonian for the 4-year English program? (I am preparing for the MCAT and hope to do it in May prior to the June application deadline for the program)
    2) What are my prospects for residency placement in the US given my profile (non-citizen and an international graduate)?
    3) What are my prospects for residency placement in the UK (again given my profile and given that the UK is not very foreigner-friendly where work is concerned at the moment)
    4) Concerning admission, what are the minimum MCAT requirements?
    5) In your personal opinion, is it wiser to go for the MPH and then apply for admission into medical schools in the US after two years?


    Thanks and God bless.
    Last edited by Scared_medic; 02-28-2014 at 02:30 AM.

  2. #2
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    1) Probably quite good, assuming a decent MCAT score.
    2) Probably not quite as good, considering a 2018 graduation date. (If you have not yet done so, please read up on the ACGME and AAMC publications regarding FMGs in the US Match after 2016. It is important and very pertinent to your queries.) Being a foreigner who needs a visa would make things even rougher, and the most likely landing spots in the best case matching scenario could well be primary care or psychiatry... which is great if that is what you want, but less ideal if you have your heart set on a surgical career, for example.
    3) Assuming the laws remain as they are, the chances for completing UK residency training without UK/EU citizenship are quite poor, indeed. Republic of Ireland could be a potential landing spot from Jag, but the Irish have been fickle over the past few years with their directives in hiring non-EU citizens. It is impossible to say how things will stand on that front in 4 years' time, or what specialties might be available for non-citizens then.
    4) Probably an MCAT in the upper 20's would suffice for Jag, but I would shoot for the 30's to remove as much doubt as possible.
    5) I am frankly uncertain as to whether US medical schools would accept your undergraduate work completed in the UK for the premedical sciences. It is my understanding that they require the premed coursework to be completed at colleges and universities in the US or Canada. That is an extremely important question for you to ask the medical school admissions offices before making a decision. IFF they will accept the UK premedical classes, and assuming you want to work in the US, then going for the MPH and applying in the US makes far more sense in the long run. However, if the US medical schools (both MD and DO) will not accept the premedical work, then the MPH will not matter one whit, and you would need to re-take those classes, as well. I believe that you are already familiar with the admissions numbers for foreign applicants to US medical schools, so I will not bend your ear on that little detail.

    (Note: If you were to fall in love* with and marry an EU/UK citizen, then things in the UK would open up for you considerably... and I would imagine that you would be pretty competitive, having studied there for your university degree. Question 3 would have a much different answer in that scenario.)

    Hope that helps a bit.

    *ideally
    Last edited by devildoc8404; 02-28-2014 at 05:39 AM.

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  3. #3
    Scared_medic is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Thanks.

    I have not yet read up on the intended changes to US Match post-2016. Please, any links to such information would be appreciated.

    Hmmm, that puts a dent in my plans. Is this an immigration issue or one with the GMC? Just so I know who I can contact in order to confirm or debunk anything?

    I have contacted most US schools that admit international students and 4 out of every 5 will accept international coursework, AS LONG AS one year of coursework is added to it, in either college or grad school. Vanderbilt, in fact, does not have this requirement. The university will accept UK, Australian and New Zealand premed coursework.

    Hahaha about falling in love with a citizen. You're the fourth person to advise me on that in the last two months. My EducationUSA advisor jokingly suggested it last week.

  4. #4
    devildoc8404's Avatar
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    The US Match/2016 business is all over VMD. This particular thread has many links: http://www.valuemd.com/american-univ...itation-3.html There are also publications (JAMA, etc.) and position papers from AAMC and ACGME.

    With regard to the UK, it is specifically a problem with immigration and getting a work permit/visa, not with GMC. The Jag diploma would be fully GMC approved, because it is an EU degree... but that is not the issue. You can read about it directly on the GMC website, where there is a section which talks specifically about foreign docs taking the PLAB and getting GMC approved and then being unlikely to get a work permit/visa to work in the UK. There are also articles from the past several years about non-EU citizen doctors who are educated in the UK, and who are not being allowed to stay and work. GMC and UK immigration authorities are your points of contact in this regard.

    Sounds like a US school could be possible, based on your research, assuming you completed the US graduate degree (or whatever) in advance... and assuming the rest of your credentials and MCAT scores are top-notch.

    Re: marrying a citizen... I attended a medical job fair a couple of years back, and there was a British recruiter present. He was talking with a small group of Middle Eastern guys, only one of whom could speak halfway decent English. I was thinking to myself, "Man, if these guys can work in England, I should be all set there." Once he was done talking with them, he turned his attention to me. After some small talk he asked what citizenship I had, and when I told him I was from the US he said "Sorry, no chance in hell, mate."

    He then went on to explain to me that these Middle Eastern medical students who were communicating with gestures and half-sentences would be welcomed in the UK... because they were marrying Romanian girls with EU citizenship. An American citizen who is fluent in English, on the other hand, would be persona non grata. Go figure.

    Soooo, yeah. It is one path, but I would recommend doing the marriage thing for the right reasons to avoid ugliness later.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


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    Scared_medic is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Well, it's one way to go about it, definitely. Wow, I'm really considering it now haha.

    Thing is I don't want to make a mistake where my choices are concerned. Jag seems like the most viable option now because it's straight to medicine but if my destination options are limited to Poland and back home, then I haven't achieved all of my career goals. I really thought Poland was a way into UK though. Shame too about not being assured a residency even with medical study in the UK. I've got many friends in the UK finishing up medicine next year!

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    devildoc8404's Avatar
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    I would definitely check with UK immigration and see if there are options, but for the rank and file it is not looking good at all. With that said, I have a Nigerian friend who was considering enlisting in the British Army, which was apparently allowed under some special concession for Nigerians, or something like that.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


  7. #7
    Scared_medic is offline Newbie 511 points
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    Do I even have the heart for the army? But again, something to consider.

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