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Thread: Jagiellonian for non-Polish speaker?

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    Cpt
    Cpt is offline Junior Member 518 points
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    Jagiellonian for non-Polish speaker?

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    I'm looking hard for a medical school that I can get into. Jagiellion's tuition of €12,000/ year is super appealing to me.

    I have a 3.0 undergraduate GPA in Chemistry from a US university and a 3.5 masters degree GPA also in Chemistry.

    My MCAT score is 25M (8 PS, 9 VR, 8 **).

    I have US & Netherlands citizenship, although I don't speak Dutch and I have spent my whole life living in Oregon. I also don't speak Polish or have any Polish ancestry.

    I've just started looking at the program. Could somebody give me the 5 minute overview about what to expect? How is living in Krakow? Is the language barrier difficult? How is the quality of instruction? Does it adequately prepare you for the USMLE? How difficult is it to learn Polish? I'm seriously doubting that I can master the language in two years and that I will struggle during the clinical years in Krakow. Please feel free to add anything else that you think would be helpful to me in making a decision.

    Are there a lot of Americans in the program? How many people total are in the 4-year program? Do people tend to make study groups for the USMLE?

    How much Polish language do typical Americans learn in this program? Does anybody go in knowing zero Polish, like me. I'm really worried about learning a new language. I took French in high school and was just lost so I'm worried I'll have difficulty with Polish.

    How well do graduates do in the match? On Jagiellonian's website it said that students are eligible to do clinical rotation in the US (somewhere in NJ & other sites in California). How likely are students to get the opportunity to do one or two of these clinical rotations? I'm guessing just about everyone in the English language program will want to participate in this program.

    Being a Netherlands citizen I think I'm eligible to return there after graduation because it's part of the EU but I don't speak Dutch either. Is it easy to learn Dutch? I'm wondering in case I don't get a US residency.

    The cost of the program seems really cheap. Too good to be true. Is it worth it? It's like 1/3 of the cost of typical US school.
    Last edited by Cpt; 04-03-2012 at 10:38 PM.

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    numbershacker is offline Member 518 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt View Post
    I'm looking hard for a medical school that I can get into. Jagiellion's tuition of 12,000/ year is super appealing to me. I have a 3.0 undergraduate GPA in Chemistry from a US university and a 3.5 masters degree GPA also in Chemistry. My MCAT score is 25M (8 PS, 9 VR, 8 **). I have US & Netherlands citizenship, although I don't speak Dutch and I have spent my whole life living in Oregon. I also don't speak Polish or have any Polish ancestry. ............................... The cost of the program seems really cheap. Too good to be true. Is it worth it? It's like 1/3 of the cost of typical US school.
    My guess is that Jag has decent ROI on average. That said, medicine in the EU-or anywhere else in the world- is not as well paid as in the USA. Being an EU citizen means an EU school might be a good choice for you. Your MCAT scores are above the minimum Jag wants of 24. If you can get a 28, they'd be much happier from what I've heard. You need to carefully think through what you plan to do if you don't make the match the first time around-or the 2nd in the USA. 95% of USMSG match vs 50% of USIMG(I Think Jag or the major Carribean schools do better on that front-but lots of variables there) You could also consider a US osteopathic school-if you really want to wind up in the USA at the end of this. If the language barrier scares you a bit-consider trying to learn some Polish on your own before you arrive. It sure can't hurt.

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    Cpt
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    Cool! Thanks for the quick reply.

    Forgive my ignorance but "ROI"?

    Are you currently a student at Jag? If so what do you think of it?

    I've just been doing some research. It turns out because I'm an EU citizen I could get an intership in the UK or Ireland (English speaking countries) upon graduation. Do you happen to know the odds of an EU graduate getting an internship in Ireland or the UK having not attended an Irish or UK med school?

    The pay isn't as good in Europe but the cost of tuition is super low at Jag. €12,000 is like $15,000 or so. US schools get $30,000 - $75,000 per year.

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    numbershacker is offline Member 518 points
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    ROI= Return On Investment

    I'm not a student at Jag.

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    Your options in the EU as a dual citizen with an EU medical diploma are decent... if you did not match in the US (or chose to stay in the EU for whatever reason) you would likely be eligible for residency training in Ireland or the UK based on your English fluency.

    You could learn Dutch, certainly, but I do not know how residency/specialization is determined in Holland -- it's hard to get training there without Dutch citizenship, and I don't know any Dutch medical students. However, I do know that currently Germany is hiring doctors with or without EU citizenship as long as they are decent docs, can pass an interview, and speak German at the B2 level or better. German specialization training is accepted almost everywhere in the world (except the US).

    Jag is a really good program, and Krakow is amazing, but if you want to work in the US I would echo the above and recommend applying to the DO programs in the US first. You have a FAR better chance of matching in your field of choice in the US from a DO program. On the other hand, if you decide that you want to add the EU to your future practice options, then you could do a lot worse than Jag. Also, with your credentials you might be able to get accepted to an Irish medical school, which is more expensive but looks better on the CV, and there are no language barriers.

    Where'd you study in Oregon? I did my undergrad at UO.

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    ... I have a 3.0 undergraduate GPA in Chemistry from a US university and a 3.5 masters degree GPA also in Chemistry.......... My MCAT score is 25M (8 PS, 9 VR, 8 **)...
    Looks decent and acceptible for Jagiellonian. They hold the interviews with US prospectives in US and interview has a role as well in evaluation, but I think you can get in.

    ... Could somebody give me the 5 minute overview about what to expect?..
    Jag is Times Higher Education's 2006 Number 1 in Poland. Today too in The Best European Schools ranking of THE, the only two Polish schools take place in Top 400 are, first Jag, and second Warsaw. But Gdansk this year had the top natonal exam score among med schools in Poland, actually with only a 0.0x point higher score to Jag. They can be seen sharing Top 1 in that ranking (but Gdansk has only 6-year program). There is also a Charles option in THE ranking.

    In Jag 4-year they follow US system and in 6-year, European system. So especially the ones in 4-year program are prepared for USMLE and have good scores, as the students of Jag say. They can have a 12-week USCE, LoRs and residency matchs. This thread gives an idea I think:
    http://www.valuemd.com/jagiellonian-...ns-issues.html

    ... How is living in Krakow?..
    Its the old capital of Poland and has 7.5millions of touristic circulation. Also an American lived there for years say its the most (or one of the most) cheap countries in EU.

    ... Is the language barrier difficult?...
    For an American and if you try to learn it thoroughly, it must be difficult, because there are a lot of declensions in Polish, like:
    I wanten
    You wantasz
    He/she/it want
    We wantemy
    You wantencie
    They wantan hahaha easy right?

    But there is always a way to get around the difficulties: I asked this question in a linguistic forum and a Polish said Poles appreciate your effort and understand you even if you drop those suffixes. Actually I am a Turk and Turkish and Polish are very similar, especially by those declensions, and we the Turks too dont expect a foreigner to use our language perfectly. Most talk in a very limping way, but still we definitely understand them and can communicate, even feel compassionate for their limping, sweet talking style As long as they see that you have an effort to learn and respectful to their language, they immediately develop a warm attitude Its said the same for Polish people as well So dont worry, you find a way to communicate

    My approach is this: I get apart the declensions part from the skeleton, follow the skeleton and plan to add the suffixes later in time as I find a ground to have practice with Polish people in real life. The skeleton is not actually hard, the hard part is suffixes (of nouns, noun suffixes is very wealthy, verb suffixes is easy actually).

    The last post in this thread may be helpful:
    http://www.valuemd.com/polish-medica...ml#post1440839

    ... Are there a lot of Americans in the program? How many people total are in the 4-year program? Do people tend to make study groups for the USMLE?...
    The class size for 4-year program is 40 and they are all from US/CA, but the graduates list tell that this drop to 30some at the end. Besides there are US/CA students in 6-year program as well, but a few. As for study groups I cant say anything, I am not a student in Jag.

    ... The cost of the program seems really cheap. Too good to be true. Is it worth it? It's like 1/3 of the cost of typical US school...
    The region is far to North America (and its fees and salaries!) and a serious N.A. population goes to Caribs. Also they address to the populations of other economies in the world as well. Actually this international med programs in EU started in E-EU schools, now that it proved a success, the S-EU countries too began to open similar programs, but for a way higher prices. They want to use their one-time prestige (Italy, Spain, wow!) but the programs are far to be stabilized yet and regarding the economical downturn in the region, especially in S-EU, will they be able to convert that prestige to high tuition fees I am not hopeful for near future.

    I either addressed your other questions above or I dont know the answer
    Last edited by bidiboom; 04-04-2012 at 03:22 AM.

  7. #7
    Cpt
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc8404 View Post
    Your options in the EU as a dual citizen with an EU medical diploma are decent... if you did not match in the US (or chose to stay in the EU for whatever reason) you would likely be eligible for residency training in Ireland or the UK based on your English fluency.

    You could learn Dutch, certainly, but I do not know how residency/specialization is determined in Holland -- it's hard to get training there without Dutch citizenship, and I don't know any Dutch medical students. However, I do know that currently Germany is hiring doctors with or without EU citizenship as long as they are decent docs, can pass an interview, and speak German at the B2 level or better. German specialization training is accepted almost everywhere in the world (except the US).

    Jag is a really good program, and Krakow is amazing, but if you want to work in the US I would echo the above and recommend applying to the DO programs in the US first. You have a FAR better chance of matching in your field of choice in the US from a DO program. On the other hand, if you decide that you want to add the EU to your future practice options, then you could do a lot worse than Jag. Also, with your credentials you might be able to get accepted to an Irish medical school, which is more expensive but looks better on the CV, and there are no language barriers.

    Where'd you study in Oregon? I did my undergrad at UO.
    Oregon State!

    Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have Polish ties? Did you know any Polish going into the program?

    Jag is very appealing to me. If I shoot for US MD or DO and/or an MCAT retake I'm looking at admissions in September 2013. If I can get into Jag I can start September 2012.

    I'm also not very worried about matching in America. After all, it looks like I can stay in the UK or Ireland for an internship year if I don't match. Then I can apply again for a residency in the US or continue in Ireland or the UK if I don't match again. The program is really cheap! The way I look as it is if I go to Jag in 2012 I'll get two shots at the match by 2017 for roughly $65,000. If I go to the US I'm looking at $120,000+ and only getting one shot at the match by 2017.

    I've read that roughly 1/3 of people in the 4-year program speak Polish, another 1/3 have some familiarity with the language, and 1/3 have no ties to Poland or any Polish-language ability. If typically 75% of the class graduates does that 25% who fail out or leave tend to be the people like me with no Polish ties or Polish-language ability?

    I looked into the Irish schools but they all cost about €40,000 per year. Which is what? About $50,000 per year? They also don't prepare you for the USMLE at all. In fact, most of what I've read suggests that there is a whole lot of self-directed study involved for the USMLE well above and beyond what is required for the coursework. The Irish schools also don't have affiliations with US schools to do clinical rotations so you have to pay out of pocket. From what I've read it seems like if you're top 15 in Jag's 4-year program you stand a pretty decent shot at rotating in the NJ school.

    Is it a difficult transition for an American like me to move to Poland for 4-years? My far and away biggest concern is the language barrier. The program sounds better than the Irish ones in terms of USMLE prep. The US-clinical affiliations are a dynamite bonus. And the cost is far less than I ever planned to spend on med school.

    Is Poland approved for US Federal Loans? At €12,000 per year I wouldn't mind taking out a private loan for that money.
    Last edited by Cpt; 04-04-2012 at 09:02 AM.

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    Cpt
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidiboom View Post
    Looks decent and acceptible for Jagiellonian. They hold the interviews with US prospectives in US and interview has a role as well in evaluation, but I think you can get in.



    Jag is Times Higher Education's 2006 Number 1 in Poland. Today too in The Best European Schools ranking of THE, the only two Polish schools take place in Top 400 are, first Jag, and second Warsaw. But Gdansk this year had the top natonal exam score among med schools in Poland, actually with only a 0.0x point higher score to Jag. They can be seen sharing Top 1 in that ranking (but Gdansk has only 6-year program). There is also a Charles option in THE ranking.

    In Jag 4-year they follow US system and in 6-year, European system. So especially the ones in 4-year program are prepared for USMLE and have good scores, as the students of Jag say. They can have a 12-week USCE, LoRs and residency matchs. This thread gives an idea I think:
    http://www.valuemd.com/jagiellonian-...ns-issues.html



    Its the old capital of Poland and has 7.5millions of touristic circulation. Also an American lived there for years say its the most (or one of the most) cheap countries in EU.



    For an American and if you try to learn it thoroughly, it must be difficult, because there are a lot of declensions in Polish, like:
    I wanten
    You wantasz
    He/she/it want
    We wantemy
    You wantencie
    They wantan hahaha easy right?

    But there is always a way to get around the difficulties: I asked this question in a linguistic forum and a Polish said Poles appreciate your effort and understand you even if you drop those suffixes. Actually I am a Turk and Turkish and Polish are very similar, especially by those declensions, and we the Turks too dont expect a foreigner to use our language perfectly. Most talk in a very limping way, but still we definitely understand them and can communicate, even feel compassionate for their limping, sweet talking style As long as they see that you have an effort to learn and respectful to their language, they immediately develop a warm attitude Its said the same for Polish people as well So dont worry, you find a way to communicate

    My approach is this: I get apart the declensions part from the skeleton, follow the skeleton and plan to add the suffixes later in time as I find a ground to have practice with Polish people in real life. The skeleton is not actually hard, the hard part is suffixes (of nouns, noun suffixes is very wealthy, verb suffixes is easy actually).

    The last post in this thread may be helpful:
    http://www.valuemd.com/polish-medica...ml#post1440839



    The class size for 4-year program is 40 and they are all from US/CA, but the graduates list tell that this drop to 30some at the end. Besides there are US/CA students in 6-year program as well, but a few. As for study groups I cant say anything, I am not a student in Jag.



    The region is far to North America (and its fees and salaries!) and a serious N.A. population goes to Caribs. Also they address to the populations of other economies in the world as well. Actually this international med programs in EU started in E-EU schools, now that it proved a success, the S-EU countries too began to open similar programs, but for a way higher prices. They want to use their one-time prestige (Italy, Spain, wow!) but the programs are far to be stabilized yet and regarding the economical downturn in the region, especially in S-EU, will they be able to convert that prestige to high tuition fees I am not hopeful for near future.

    I either addressed your other questions above or I dont know the answer
    How do you know so much about Jag if you do not attend there? Are you an MD in Krakow?

    If so, what medical school did you attend?

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    bidiboom is offline Permanently Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt View Post
    How do you know so much about Jag if you do not attend there? Are you an MD in Krakow?

    If so, what medical school did you attend?
    Hahaha No I am in Istanbul/Turkey, but I am really interested in Jag. My daddy is ill and very old, so I am with him, but I know that someday he will die. I need to brace for everything in life, so I prepare for this option too, but I have zero idea whether I can make it or not, what life brings.. let alone to go to Jag. This is not even a dream, this is preparing for everything. If its possible, I can go to Jag and come back as a doctor

    Even if I cant go to Jag, at least I can help some others go

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    Cpt
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidiboom View Post
    Hahaha No I am in Istanbul/Turkey, but I am really interested in Jag. My daddy is ill and very old, so I am with him, but I know that someday he will die. I need to brace for everything in life, so I prepare for this option too, but I have zero idea whether I can make it or not, what life brings.. let alone to go to Jag. This is not even a dream, this is preparing for everything. If its possible, I can go to Jag and come back as a doctor

    Even if I cant go to Jag, at least I can help some others go
    Oh okay. Well, I wish you and your family well!

    Thank you for the information.

    Feel free to add anything else that you think would be helpful to know, it will be appreciated.

    I think I'm definitely going to drop an application into Jagiellonian and see what happens.

    Are any of the other 4-year English-speaking Polish schools worthwhile? Any particularly better for Americans or English-speakers?

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