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  1. #1
    abualrim is offline Newbie
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    power of attorney vs.will

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    An elderly man is brought unconscious to the ER ,He needs itubation ,He has a written will in which he states that in such cases he dosen't want to be intubated .

    Then his son 27 y.o comes & shows you that he has the power of attorney & asks you to intubate his father .
    What would you do?

  2. #2
    teratos's Avatar
    teratos is offline Jedi Moderator 658 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by abualrim
    An elderly man is brought unconscious to the ER ,He needs itubation ,He has a written will in which he states that in such cases he dosen't want to be intubated .

    Then his son 27 y.o comes & shows you that he has the power of attorney & asks you to intubate his father .
    What would you do?
    I wouldn't intubate him. I have confronted this a couple of times. The role of the Power of Attorney is to see to it the wishes of the patient are carried out. The patient already has expressed his wishes...he doesn't want to be intubated. He shouldn't be. G
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  3. #3
    abualrim is offline Newbie
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    but i've read in a student's note that you should listen to the power of wttorney as if you're listening to hte pt himself

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    teratos's Avatar
    teratos is offline Jedi Moderator 658 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by abualrim
    but i've read in a student's note that you should listen to the power of wttorney as if you're listening to hte pt himself
    You should listen to the POA as if they are the patient. Except in this case the patient is able to tell you what he wants. He has a living will, a legal document (I assume), with witnesses and the whole she-bang telling you he doesn't want to be intubated. His son is in no position to override that. G
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  5. #5
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    What if the pt was clinically dead (dead brain) And you wanted to put an NGT in the same scenario?

    Also what if the pt didn't specifically stated that he didn't want intubation but just that he didn't want heroic actions to save his life?

    Pls answer both cases

    Could you pls put the name of the source
    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    What if the pt was clinically dead (dead brain) And you wanted to put an NGT in the same scenario?

    Also what if the pt didn't specifically stated that he didn't want intubation but just that he didn't want heroic actions to save his life?

    Pls answer both cases

    Could you pls put the name of the source
    thanks
    If a patient meets the criteria for brain death, which has a medical/legal definition, you disconnect them from life support. You don't need the families permission. Brain death = death, there is no reason to keep the heart of a dead person beating unless you plan to harvest their organs. G
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    its power of attoreny

    hey its given every where the answer is power of attorney.U should listen for a power of attorney as the patient is speakin.

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    teratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drabhilashteja
    hey its given every where the answer is power of attorney.U should listen for a power of attorney as the patient is speakin.
    In a living will, the patient has spoken. the POA is the patients representative when the patient is incapacitated. WHen you have a Living Will, which is a legal document, drawn up by an attorney, and signed by a person in front of witnesses you clearly have the patients wishes. In this instance, you DON'T NEED the POA. The PATIENT has spoken. He'she has left his/her express wishes. Is this concept really that hard? G
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  9. #9
    tnr9 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    clearly power of attorney is the trump card in this case. It beats all others as it speaks for the patient in true sense no matter what his condition is, including brain dead.

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    teratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnr9
    clearly power of attorney is the trump card in this case. It beats all others as it speaks for the patient in true sense no matter what his condition is, including brain dead.
    No. The power of attorney speaks for the patient when the patients wishes are unclear. In the case where a patient has a living will, the patients wishes are clear, and you go with the living will. Why do you think people draw them up?? Often so their families can't torture them with tracheostomies and feeding tubes. If you put this patient on life support, and they survive, they can sue you and you'll lose BIG TIME. You went against the patients VERY CLEAR, and LEGALLY EXPRESSED wishes. Why is this such a difficult concept? I am a practicing physician. I have done this.

    In the case of brain death there is a legal definition, and tests are done to prove it. These tests include "Doll's eye" reflex. Cold caloric test, apnea test, and often EEG. If the patient is declared "brain dead" you take them off life support. They are dead. It doesn't matter what the POA says. G
    AUC Class of '99
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