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  1. #1
    Ryan01 is offline Member 510 points
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    Charles Attrition Rate?

    I was wondering what the attrition rate is at Charles First Faculty? I read somewhere is pretty high and not many people make it to graduation (I know Charles is a very prestigious university) but I could be completely wrong.

  2. #11
    bitebullet1 is offline Junior Member 512 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc8404 View Post
    You seem quite well-versed in the subject for someone who isn't studying there. Either that or you are talking out of your bottom.

    I have called most of them up and even the reps on the phone cant speak a word of English, let alone the teachers!

    Yes. They are Czech. The secretaries at my school don't speak English well, either. They are Bulgarian. Go figure. THEY ARE SECRETARIES. The profs (in my experience) can handle English fine because they have two or three doctoral degrees and they are, like, wicked smart. Secretaries? That isn't part of their job description. BELIEVE ME. Dealing with admin stuff in the E-EU is a pain in the butt.

    I have known of people who have dropped out, but wanted to find out for myself...

    By CALLING THEM? "Hi, what's your drop-out rate?" Sure, that will work.

    If i can get though in normal/baby English words, they can just about make out what i am talking about but will never ever release their attrition rate....i wonder why?

    NO med school trumpets its drop rate from the rooftops, kid. Even in the States.

    some say its over 40% but i suspect higher....

    Why don't you ask shrey, a student at Charles and VMD poster who is reliable and calls a spade a spade.

    Its clear to me that Eastern Europe has become the graveyard for failed medics and these med schools are clearly raking it by giving false hope to ambitious students, most of whom should be no where near medical school.

    Really? EVERY school in Eastern Europe? Wow. What a shock to Jagiellonian, Semmelweis, Warsaw, and the rest. (They have graduates around the world, you know... you should read up on it a bit before casting general aspersions.)

    Are there crappy students here? Of course there are. But the opportunity for a good education exists, and those who learn their stuff will do well on the boards and become docs. Those who don't, won't.

    I have a feeling for every student success case has about 10 stories of failure following them which we dont hear about, cos at the end of the day who wants to go and broadcast failure?

    Nobody does. But one in ten? Come on now, that was a lyric in a fine Foo Fighters song, but it's not the graduation rate at Charles.

    I wish there was a western European medical school, as they clearly have better standards, and have a less then 5% drop out rate, with standards comparable to the UK.

    That statement makes no sense. There are a LOT of western EU med schools, almost all of them have better standards than the east (some of the best in the world), some have less than 5% drop rate, and they are certainly on par with the UK.

    A word about drop rates, though. France and Belgium have some of the highest med school drop rates in the world. You can look it up. Would you deign to suggest that their medical education is sub-standard? You see, it's fairly easy to start med school in France, say, but there is a total bear of an exam called the Concours, and VERY few people pass it. If you fail, you can repeat the year and try ONE more time, if you choose. However, if you fail it a second time, you are done forever.

    So, yeah. Drop rate isn't everything, you see. There is more to the picture.

    I have found this dental school in Valencia, Spain which seems to offer dentistry in English, UCH-CEU....so maybe then will offer medicine too one day, who knows...

    Dentistry is a tricky prospect... you can't graduate from a foreign dental school and go directly to practice in the States. Check with the ADA on those requirements. And what the bleep does that have to do with your rant about Charles and E-EU schools?
    This is very true.Its a very bad idea to do dent outside the states if u plan to return there.I think u have to go back to college for 2 years and will be continually monitored.However,u can specialise over there-in prosthetics,orthodontics etc but would have to leave afterward


    Btw,Karl its clear u are a troll with no life who probably failed to get into charles and is now bitter.

  3. #12
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    Yes, i am pretty well versed actually, having spent 3 years looking into it while doing my science degree and will be starting at UK medical school this year..

    Great! Enjoy your studies in the UK. Try not to fog up your glasses while looking down your nose at E-Eu, huh?

    My post it to the assumed masses out there who will probably make up there own minds and check it out themselves.....dont say i didn't warn you.

    (I don't usually comment about someone's spelling and grammar, but in this case? Someone who makes snarky comments about the English capabilities of foreigners? It's actually pretty funny.)

    I am sure any reasonable minded reader will take caution when seeking advice from a student who is currently at a one of these Eastern European schools or is from there...after all, who wants to crap on their own door step...

    You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I regularly crap on the doorstep of my university (figuratively speaking), and I warn people to exhaust other medical school options before considering E-Eu. I daresay, however, that as someone who currently resides here I am somewhat more qualified to comment on the state of things here.

    They say these schools have prestige, but what they don't tell you is the school may have been found several hundred years ago for its native students, and this is the only part that carries any prestige. Take away the native students, studying in their own language, and you are left with lambs to the slaughter, who are paying shed loads for the to keep the rest of the faculty surviving! The English section for international students at each of these 'medical school' carries no prestige, mark my words.

    Jag maintains an excellent international reputation, despite your protestations. Charles and Semmelweis do seem to rest on their laurels when it comes to the English program. But that is not the point. The point is that it is a path to the goal. Not that it is awesome, but it is a path to the goal... and people do graduate from E-Eu, and many of them do quite well.

    Anyone with common sense will see that these uni's pretty much take anyone who's cheque clears, and use a silly entrance exam as a smoke screen.

    Yes, they accept a lot. They don't all graduate, either, which makes sense. That's how it rolls when you accept a lot of people (as evidenced by the French and Belgian models, which you conveniently ignored). Frankly, I wish they would send half my class packing, but my thinking is that they will let people muddle through until the 6th year and then fail them at the end, which is brutal. But then again, these are the schmoes who don't study. And it's a poor country here, so they are anxious to maximize tuition revenues.

    In most of these uni's, (inc. Charles) its not uncommon for students to have paid for exams to pass through to the next year. Why else would they insist that the final exams have to be orally assessed (even though they can barely put a sentence in English together)?

    Rumors abound about this, but I have never seen it. Frankly, I'm sure that there are places where it occurs. Regardless, these people will not pass the board exams for practice.

    Asking for attrition is pretty normal, schools in the states and in the UK would tell you without twisting their arm.

    Not my experience, but it might be yours.

    And no, i didn't speak to secretaries, some of them were vice-deans and associate professors, and some where working in the English division for over 15 years....They may be smart at what they do, but what good is that if they cant teach in English?

    Precious little good, of course. Then again, do you really think that ALL profs here are like that? I can think of about 3 lecturers at my school in the past couple of years who speak crappy English. The vast majority are fine. Many are excellent.

    There is a big difference between dictating the same lecture every day for 15 years and actually teaching.

    Welcome to academia, Carl. I had grad school profs in the States who could not teach their way out of a paper bag, and were lost without a Powerpoint. That is called -- wait for it -- "crappy teaching," and you will find it everywhere. I also had teaching assistants in undergrad whose English was almost completely unintelligible. FAR worse than anything I have seen here... and this was at a well-respected university in the States. E-Eu has no corner on this market, I'm sorry to say.

    And while were on the subject, why has their English level never been assessed at any of the schools? If they expect good students, surely they should expect to lead by example?

    I cannot speak for every school (unlike yourself, apparently, O Omniscient One), but at my school they do assess English. Those whose English language sucks are required to take a prep course (at full tuition, of course - they aren't being completely benevolent about it!) to get them ready for the curriculum.

    A lot of them do have graduates from around the world, but so what?

    Hmmmm. Maybe it's a big deal since that is the end goal of medical school? You know, practicing medicine?

    Of course they would if they take almost 100 students per year every year for 20 years...I am sure most do eventually get though, but a very large number do not.

    Some quick help in the math department: "one in ten" (from your previous post) is not the same as "most" (from this post).

    Those that are doing medicine or dentistry in Czech Rep. or Hungary and are still not kicked out are there cos they have to be, and most of them are having a pretty crappy time.

    Sorry to hear that. Oh, wait... it's medical school. It IS a crappy time. And of course they have to be there if they want to graduate!

    Would anyone go out there for a weeks holiday, if it didnt involve getting drunk and loose women? Stag or hen do maybe, but 5-6 years medicine learning a slovonik language, plus Latin in the first year?! Thats desperation.

    Absolutely. Desperation to achieve the goal when other avenues have been closed, for whatever reason? You bet your butt, Skippy, and I make no apologies for it. And there are lots of great things about E-Eu that involve neither alcohol nor skankiness.

    And for the record, learning another language (this is my third) is not a drawback, it's a benefit. Latin, however, sucks.

    Opportunity to further your education - maybe, opportunity to enjoy university life and practice medicine and get a job - dream on.

    Keep us posted, then. Some of us will be in residency before you are even starting clinicals.

    Like i said, i have a place to study medicine in the UK thank god, and have done my homework, so my work here is done and have no reason to continue with this thread as i am clearly hurting some losers feelings...

    "Loser's" needs an apostrophe, kid.

    so i wont be reply any further, nor do i need to.

    Oh yeah, you really laid waste to this thread, didn't you? Whew, that was a regular Sherman's March. (Google it.)

    to all the others out there that think Czech Rep, Hungary, E. Europe is a golden opportunity - do ure homework and check out what i have said above and you'll see where i am coming from...

    Pfth. Anyone who thinks of E-Eu as a "golden opportunity" is either being lied to or grossly naive. It's a path to the goal, but it should come FAR down the list from other options.

    stay in the UK, do a degree first, it worked for me.

    Note that your comment presupposes that the reader is in the UK. Most of the traffic for this site is not from that neck of the woods.

    Be particularly careful of some individuals who are on this forum a bit too regularly then normal and who claim are here to 'help' when they should get a life and get out more.

    Yeah, people who post regularly and are in the upper years of medical school obviously have no IDEA what they are talking about. The posters who aren't in medical school yet? THERE's your reliable source.

    Why are they so damn protective of a place, that is clearly a poophole?

    Yeah, that's pants-peeing hilarious, Carl. Have you been to Bulgaria? Because I have. I live here, Carl. I am learning the language and I have come to appreciate the people, the culture, and the beautiful country (outside of Sofia, which is a dive). I am learning medicine here despite administrative ** that would bring most people to their knees in tears. Feel free to cast your ignorant and daft aspersions from the UK, huh? Sometime after you have visited the Rila and Pirin mountain ranges, the Seven Lakes region, the thousand year old monasteries, and the Black Sea coastline, feel free to tell me all about this "poophole."

    (Ooooh, and if you are really nice, I will take you to the old lecture hall at our school and show you the public bathroom, so you can see an actual poop-hole. It's, um, admittedly not the biggest selling point for the school.)

    I am more than happy to share the shortcomings of my school with people. I know them better than you do. But I also know its decent side, and anyone who choses to denigrate a place completely with no real experience or insight deserves a written kick in the shins... (complete with properly spelled words and punctuation.)

    good luck.

    You, too. Careful with the arrogance... that stuff can spread.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


  4. #13
    shrey is offline Senior Member 526 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlosM View Post
    The drop out rate at Charles Universities (and the rest in the Czech Rep) is ridiculous....

    I have called most of them up and even the reps on the phone cant speak a word of English, let alone the teachers!

    I have known of people who have dropped out, but wanted to find out for myself...

    If i can get though in normal/baby English words, they can just about make out what i am talking about but will never ever release their attrition rate....i wonder why?

    some say its over 40% but i suspect higher....

    Its clear to me that Eastern Europe has become the graveyard for failed medics and these med schools are clearly raking it by giving false hope to ambitious students, most of whom should be no where near medical school.

    I have a feeling for every student success case has about 10 stories of failure following them which we dont hear about, cos at the end of the day who wants to go and broadcast failure?

    I wish there was a western European medical school, as they clearly have better standards, and have a less then 5% drop out rate, with standards comparable to the UK.

    I have found this dental school in Valencia, Spain which seems to offer dentistry in English, UCH-CEU....so maybe then will offer medicine too one day, who knows...

    Carl
    I think you're the most ridiculous person I've come across, generalizing stuff without having a clue as to what's it really like. Did you call the "reps" or did you call the administrative office? There's a HUGEEEEE difference. Every single member of our administrative office speaks English quite well. I admit, the previous administrative office secretaries were quite rude and unhelpful but this has all changed with the advent of the new administration. I couldn't be more satisfied with the current office secretaries (and I hope they stay for the next couple of years.)

    Each and every student here struggles a lot just to pass. The passing standards are very high and NO, THEY DO NOT ACCEPT BRIBES. If they did, we wouldn't be having such a high attrition rate now would we? There is a high attrition rate particularly amongst the British students and that's mainly coz a lot of them just don't study hard and party way too much. Most of these guys are quite wealthy (with at least one of their parents being a doctor), but they never passed even though they could have just bribed the profs. Stop spreading B.S. when you have no idea about the university. I have an aunt who is one of the recruiting members in one of the London hospitals (she owns the place actually), and she was the one who recommended me to look into Charles the first place. She said that they have a lot of students from the English parallel over to London for summer clerkships and the FY program, and she was quite impressed with their theoretical and practical knowledge.

    p.s. you learn Czech only for the 1st 3 years and you don't have to be fluent. You just need to be able to take a medical history in Czech and that's not really that hard (unless you really suck at learning languages). We usually do have translators (either the profs. or a couple of teaching assistants do this) during the clinical years. Also, we don't learn core Latin. It's basically medical-Latin and it does help you with understanding the most of the Latin terms you'll come across in Anatomy.

    I'm not saying Charles is the best. If you read my previous posts, I've always encouraged students to first look at British/Caribbean/Australian schools and only consider Charles if nothing else works out. It does provide a solid education but ultimately, you have to make the best out of it. No one's going to spoon-feed you. Why don't you just ask some of the British/American students about their experiences in Charles? And I mean not the ones who failed out, but the ones who are actually performing well.

    You just remind me of one of those pathetic losers who failed the first year but never got re-admitted. And yes, we have another rule. You can't repeat the same year more than once. If you fail your second time, you have to reapply to the program. So you might have just been one of those students. Anyways good luck with school in UK! Hopefully you'll pass and not spread B.S. about one of those universities too.


  5. #14
    camsram is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Drop out rate at eastern european unis

    Its pretty clear to me that somebody has personality issues or should i say a superego, you should not go on and make statements like charles is 4 people who should be no where near medical school. Where im from the government pays for our education full grant and weve been offered places in universities like college cork in ireland but the government couldnt pay the tuition as those unis are expensive. So next time u say students at charles should be no where near medical schools think of monetary issues some people have.

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    ForeignMed77 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    you should try concord meidical institute they cover Med schools in czech republic 02071938602 uk office

  7. #16
    MrBones is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Dropout / attrition rates are nonsense, especially when you want to deduct how 'hard' it is to pass. All this talk about those attrition rates is hoax, because at the end its not something that matters at all, its useless to know and its even more useless to talk about it and in the worst case it scares you. .......Already talked to much about it

  8. #17
    Minuna is offline Newbie 510 points
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    I was a student in the Czech republic

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlosM View Post
    The drop out rate at Charles Universities (and the rest in the Czech Rep) is ridiculous....

    I have called most of them up and even the reps on the phone cant speak a word of English, let alone the teachers!

    I have known of people who have dropped out, but wanted to find out for myself...

    If i can get though in normal/baby English words, they can just about make out what i am talking about but will never ever release their attrition rate....i wonder why?

    some say its over 40% but i suspect higher....

    Its clear to me that Eastern Europe has become the graveyard for failed medics and these med schools are clearly raking it by giving false hope to ambitious students, most of whom should be no where near medical school.

    I have a feeling for every student success case has about 10 stories of failure following them which we dont hear about, cos at the end of the day who wants to go and broadcast failure?

    I wish there was a western European medical school, as they clearly have better standards, and have a less then 5% drop out rate, with standards comparable to the UK.

    I have found this dental school in Valencia, Spain which seems to offer dentistry in English, UCH-CEU....so maybe then will offer medicine too one day, who knows...

    Carl



    Well, the person above is right. I was a student in the czech republic and I had no idea when I went there about the high attrition rates. Since I am a very good student I figured, you know as long as I study I will be fine. yeah right...

    I am sorry to brake it to anyone, but thats just not the case. The faculties take in much more people that they can accommodate, thats fact number one. So automatically, people NEED to get kicked out, simply because they do not have the capacities.

    Second, wether you pass or not is (besides the knowledge that you obv need to have) entirely up to the person examining you. We had a course, where it was known, that if you are in one of the last examination dates, you get kicked out, no matter what, simply because the prof was sick and tiered of people coming in "late" for their exams, never mind that you always have one late exam, because you have others before that.

    About the attrition rates, each year we start with 160 (more or less), and every year less than 25 people graduate, and out of these, one or two managed in the 6 years.... The rest gets kicked out at one point or another. After the second year we are maybe 60 - 70 people, and the numbers just keep going down. (minus up to 20 each year). You always need to remember that each year looks bigger than it actually is, in my pathology course there were only 30% from my year, the rest 70% were from the year above, who failed something and had to repeat a year.

    I can only say to not come to the czech republic, they have after france, the highest attrition rates in europe and they really think that we have so much money, that its like nothing for us to pay 10k a year for tuition. I had one teacher tell me in my face: just take the semester off, and work for a couple of months, then you will have the 20k back that you spend for tuition here..... ( I am not joking, this is what she said to me) I asked what exactly she thinks a nurse is making in my country, well by her imagination a nurse makes more than 3k a month.... (thats not even a doctors salary in my country).

    Then you also have racisms, envy (the highest positioned profs earn less than 10k a year here), and just simple A-hole behavior, because here they still have this old fashioned - the prof can scream at you and treat you like pooh pooh- attitude.

    The problem is that they hide these numbers. After my year we had much fewer norwegians for example, because word got out about the attrition rates and they were smart enough to go to other countries. But in my opinion, yes the universities in the czech republic screw you over, they take you in even tough they dont have enough space for everyone and then its just a matter of luck, wether you make it or not, because I saw some really good people get kicked out (and still see) or be pushed one year back.

  9. #18
    Katarina is offline Newbie 510 points
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    I am a former LF1 student (this was a while ago it might be different now); Charles first faculty in particular is a hard place to study (the Professors there say it, I've asked students who studied at Charles and then at other universities in Italy and another at Charles and then in the UAE) not just because of their high standards (70% + required to pass vs 60% at Hradec and on most other courses at the Uni) but because luck and timing plays a big part in their oral exam system. What most people haven't mentions is that LF1 has a high attrition rate for Czech students as well (though not as high as international students) and the number on places on the course does dwindle every year so that means effectively some student have to drop out or resit the year otherwise the number don't add up. I had to leave in the preclinical years because I an automatic fail (I never took the exam) on a large single semester compulsory course (making me unable to resit- ISP on any other components of 1st year) after missing the Winter semester exam due to flu ( I had a valid Czech doctor's note requiring bed rest) and after being told by the professor I could resit in Summer semester, I just waited and studied for the later exam dates, however the professor only put 10 spaces, less spaces for the exam than students who were left to take it meaning at least 2 people (that I know of) automatically failed, he only provided 1 exam day over a month before the main exam season (he later claimed he could not add more dates despite it being well before the end of the semester) and didn't respond to my emails explaining that because he had not entered my medical excuse into the system I was not yet eligible to register by the time he responded saying he would enter the paperwork if I sent the doctors note again as he could not remember, by then date only date was full and he said he was not allowed to add extra spaces, I asked if I could petitions this he said he did not know and to ask the student office. Eventually I was told to email the dean about it, I did and the dean looked into it only for the Professor to say I should have taken the exam in winter as it was a winter course (with the flu I assume) or on the March date (THERE WERE NO MARCH DATES FOR THE ENGLISH PARALLEL). Eventually I had to give up and was told I could resit the course the next year if I passed everything else, I was uneasy over this but I had no other options, so when I failed another module (really failed this time- partially as a result of the weird oral exam system, partially as result of my own shortcomings, the flu wasn't my only health problem that year) I was automatically kicked out. The Professor on the oral (in the other subject) basically said I am sorry but I am going to have to fail you but no matter you can resit it next year and it will give you the opportunity to get to grips with the subject, when I explain this would mean I was automatically kicked out he asked whether I had asked the 1st professor to add another date as there was still over a month of possible exam date left, I explained that the other professor said he wasn't allowed to, (Professor 2 looked surprised and said nothing, I am fairly sure Professor 1 as head of the specific course could have added more dates just did want to). I asked Professor 2 (who is actually very helpful) if I could reapply at the same University he said of course I could (and the kicking out would not effect my application) but I might want to consider easier medical schools further east. There was just under 200 English speakers in my year about 20 were kicked out about 10% (not inc resits) in my class alone there was 5 people were kicked out (20%), there were groups where every student made it through to next year it really depend on whether your professor gives you the course credit (or whether you have to take common credit). If you have studied at university before and have money to spend on good housing, ready meals (you will be time poor) and relatively high tuition, I really recommend Charles it is prestigious (yes even the English parallel, unlike popular opinion it is not filled with drunk Europe and US teenagers who couldn't hack it a home, the students typically actually want to study in continental Europe and are mainly from India or the middle east- which has relatively few med school but a high demand for doctors) because it has a reputation for being competitive, Prague is a beautiful city. However a lot of the exam questions are based on figures from books only in Czech (if your good at language or already speak a Slavic root language this may not be a problem), and you are pretty much own your own, the students for the most part teach themselves and you can't really use US lectures as the subject are more specific at euro undergrad courses . And if something goes wrong it will snowball and you'll probably have to work it out on your own. They are generally not sympathetic to personal problems and the Professor have a lot of power the admin staff have almost none so even if they want to help your pretty much always always at the whim of the Professor great if there easier or in a good mood or just like you disastrous if there not.

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