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  1. #1
    SyrianMD is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Getting Credit for College Courses

    So I got into Charles and I have a bachelors degree from a US University. I have spoked with the Admissions office and she said that I might be able to get credit and move into the second year. Does anyone know if it is pretty easy to advance to the 2nd year with a bachelors in bio?

    thanks.

  2. #11
    medical inventor is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    "Here entertain yourself..." - Aviv, you have dodged the question I asked you about who you are, and where? Are you a fms, an employee of fms, etc? The reason I ask is if I were attending one of these schools, I sure as he** would find out my chances of licensure. This is as serious as a heart attack for those contemplating this avenue. This is not "entertainment!" Anyone stepping into this needs to KNOW.
    And about the many agencies, you have not listened to me: the Licensing boards only are in charge. You have to understand the US Constitution, but that's another matter.
    So, as you admit you don't have a clue about licensure, why don't we get down to finding out what the truth is? (Maimonides - "Understanding begins when you admit you don't know. Few will admit that.")
    One way is to directly ask the medical schools. I did that with one school, and they referred me to a single guy who was obviously lying to me. But a lack of answer to this question from them speaks very very loudly - against them.
    Another way is to query the licensing boards. A final way is to find licensed fmg's.
    I'm interested in finding a database of doctors and where they went to medical school. A friend who is a doctor consulted such a directory a few years ago. I will ask a reference librarian for this item. That seems the best thing to check at this point, rather than be a donkey-brain about all this.

  3. #12
    maximillian genossa's Avatar
    maximillian genossa is offline Ultimate Member
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    I already pointed you out how licensing works, were to find out the information you want in another thread, it is not rocket science as much as you want to portray it. Who I am where I am who I work for...none of your business. Happy now? I am.

    Now, you say you are "interested in finding a database of doctors and where they went to medical school. A friend who is a doctor consulted such a directory a few years ago."

    Why don't you ask that same friend of yours? Speaking of donkey braining,

    Enjoy my how to get licensed in the US lessons, you certainly need them. I already shot down your statement that only SGU and Ross grads are good for licensing in the U.S. in another thread. But that was easy, anyone could have done that, I just took the first honors.

    Good day!


    Quote Originally Posted by medical inventor View Post
    "Here entertain yourself..." - Aviv, you have dodged the question I asked you about who you are, and where? Are you a fms, an employee of fms, etc? The reason I ask is if I were attending one of these schools, I sure as he** would find out my chances of licensure. This is as serious as a heart attack for those contemplating this avenue. This is not "entertainment!" Anyone stepping into this needs to KNOW.
    And about the many agencies, you have not listened to me: the Licensing boards only are in charge. You have to understand the US Constitution, but that's another matter.
    So, as you admit you don't have a clue about licensure, why don't we get down to finding out what the truth is? (Maimonides - "Understanding begins when you admit you don't know. Few will admit that.")
    One way is to directly ask the medical schools. I did that with one school, and they referred me to a single guy who was obviously lying to me. But a lack of answer to this question from them speaks very very loudly - against them.
    Another way is to query the licensing boards. A final way is to find licensed fmg's.
    I'm interested in finding a database of doctors and where they went to medical school. A friend who is a doctor consulted such a directory a few years ago. I will ask a reference librarian for this item. That seems the best thing to check at this point, rather than be a donkey-brain about all this.
    Last edited by Aviv Imanuel; 04-12-2010 at 09:37 AM.
    "Sacrifice turns to revenge and believe me
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  4. #13
    shrey is offline Senior Member 526 points
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    duplicate post
    Last edited by shrey; 04-12-2010 at 02:46 PM.


  5. #14
    shrey is offline Senior Member 526 points
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    Yes, the licensing boards are responsible but these boards have no idea as to the quality of medical education obtained by the FMG. This is the reason why this job is compartmentalized between different organizations: ECFMG, FAIMER/IMED and so forth. The State boards assess the candidate based on his/her certification obtained by the ECFMG.

    And yes, the previous poster posted facts (FSMB). It clearly shows you that in order to get licensure as a MEDICAL GRADUATE (NOT a doctor), you have to have your USMLE scores and ECFMG certification (if you're an FMG) beforehand. Secondly, each State will ONLY license you after you've actually gotten accepted into a residency program (again, this goes back to the USMLE and ECFMG requirements along with interviews). This is a fact and you can check it on the following website: http://www.internationaldoc.com/ (check under "State Medical Licenses")

    Another example: Do check the California Medical Board website; it's lists all the schools that are eligible for licensure in the state of California. Note that California has the most stringent licensure requirements in the US. Every student who has graduated from a school mentioned on this site is eligible for California licensure (AS LONG AS they have their ECFMG certification and MLE/NBME tests.) Note that most international schools ARE recognized throughout US..but this is only applies to programs studied in the language native to that country. The english programs which are recognized are mentioned separately in parenthesis (for. eg. look under Czech Republic or Hungary or Poland.)

    You want more examples? Check this website:Alabama Board Of Medical Examiners: Physician Licensee Application

    It's the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners. It clearly states that you need to submit your exam scores plus you need to document the fact that you " have been certified or recertified by one of the Specialty Boards approved by the American Board of Medical Specialties."

    The only State boards that I know of which actually mention anything about FMGs is California and perhaps NY and NM. Usually, if your medical school is CA approved, then you will not have a hard time getting certified or licensed in other states (as long as you've fulfilled the other requirements.)

    Well to be honest, you haven't given me any facts. You've only told me what the agent told you based on her experience. Do your research and you'll find out the facts for yourself. You don't need an agent to do that for you. If you want real facts, there are 2 doctors on this forum who have graduated from my university and are successfully working in the US:
    1) NC - a board-CERTIFIED physician (ObyGyn) working in the US
    2) DK - graduated last year and currently doing research in Kentucky (although he did receive his ECFMG certification and licensure.)

    Dr. C actually visited Prague last year for presenting a seminar on "Getting into a residency and becoming board-certified to practice in the US"

    I think I've given you enough facts. But you can still check the link posted by the previous poster. It lists out all the different state medical boards and eligibility requirements imposed by them. If you're looking into attending a foreign medical school, your primary concern should be whether the school is:

    a) listed in the WHO list +
    b) listed in the IMED/FAIMER list +
    c) if it's CA-accredited +

    If these 3 requirements are met, and you've also received your ECFMG certification, MLE scores (the requirements for MLE scores differ from state to state; for eg., some states require you to have Step 3 scores in hand prior to applying so that you can directly apply for an H-1 visa, which is a better option) and acceptance into a residency program, you shouldn't have a problem in getting licensure (it's more of a formality.)
    Last edited by Moderator; 04-15-2010 at 12:19 PM. Reason: TOS Violation: Names


  6. #15
    maximillian genossa's Avatar
    maximillian genossa is offline Ultimate Member
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    Shrey, don't bother with him, he does not believe us because we are not Harvard grads.

    I remember NeilC, he used to post here a lot.

    Now that you mentioned the infamous California list, last week Arkansas reverted on their decison to use it, excellent news, and Texas modified their rules a few months ago asking for Board certification, not as much as were you went to school. So, there has been some progress, and we should thank the effort of AUA who sued the Medical Board of Arkansas and somehow managed to obtain this change.

    Aviv
    Last edited by Aviv Imanuel; 04-13-2010 at 11:24 AM.
    "Sacrifice turns to revenge and believe me
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  7. #16
    shrey is offline Senior Member 526 points
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    Oh wow, I didn't know that. I guess it's bad for me lol coz I go to a CA-accredited school. Oh well, I guess I'm not too worried.

    Btw, do you also go to med school in Europe?


  8. #17
    medical inventor is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Yes, the licensing boards are responsible but these boards have no idea as to the quality of medical education obtained by the FMG. This is the reason why this job is compartmentalized between different organizations: ECFMG, FAIMER/IMED and so forth. The State boards assess the candidate based on his/her certification obtained by the ECFMG.

    a) listed in the WHO list +
    b) listed in the IMED/FAIMER list +
    c) if it's CA-accredited +

    If these 3 requirements are met, and you've also received your ECFMG certification, MLE scores (the requirements for MLE scores differ from state to state; for eg., some states require you to have Step 3 scores in hand prior to applying so that you can directly apply for an H-1 visa, which is a better option) and acceptance into a residency program, you shouldn't have a problem in getting licensure (it's more of a formality.)
    __________________

    as long as you've fulfilled the other requirements.)

    Well to be honest, you haven't given me any facts. You've only told me what the agent told you based on her experience. Do your research and you'll find out the facts for yourself. You don't need an agent to do that for you. If you want real facts, there are 2 doctors on this forum who have graduated from my university and are successfully working in the US:
    1) NC - a board-CERTIFIED physician (ObyGyn) working in the US
    2) DK - graduated last year and currently doing research in Kentucky (although he did receive his ECFMG certification and licensure.)

    Dr. C actually visited Prague last year for presenting a seminar on "Getting into a residency and becoming board-certified to practice in the US"

    I think I've given you enough facts. But you can still check the link posted by the previous poster. It lists out all the different state medical boards and eligibility requirements imposed by them. If you're looking into attending a foreign medical school, your primary concern should be whether the school is:

    etc etc

    ================================================

    Hi Shrey
    Thanks much for your comprehensive reply. I will jump right in and then relate what sources of information I have been uncovering.
    OK - What state is NC in? I would like to confirm him in the NOAH database, if possible. Same for DK, though I understand from what you said that he does not have licensure? How many US-applicant fmg's does Charles (your school?) emit each year? I understand you have limited resources to research this, but you must understand I am not conclusively impressed by a population of one! He might be a brother of the senator from that state! No seriously, any competent statistician will talk like this to you, and I am trying to get some simple certainty on this issue. This clarification can help you.
    Overall, I feel your answer uts way too much faith in the rationalism of the state governments. You seem to think the task of licensure is "compartmentalized" among the various agencies in a sensible, functional fashion. For example, I checked the California list twenty years ago, and they had listed, among scads of schools in India and China, the "Sadam Hussein School of Medicine" in Baghdad! I kid you not! Now maybe that list has been reformed (which I doubt), but the nature of the list suggests strongly to me that it is at best a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement for your school. That is, if your school is not there they can reject it, but inclusion means little. (Many of the Indian schools listed would not make it.) Look, don't naively over-estimate the intelligence and consistency of politicians on state licensing boards. And as far as licensing being a formality after you have done your residency and other requirements, I would not assume that at all, and some evidence I have seen so far belies that. For example, one poster I read emailed the state licensing boards and found that, even though he could do residency in the state, the boards stated they would not license him! Needless to say, he was flummoxed by this finding, but at least it re-affirms for me the factual and evident actions of the licensing boards as being the only thing that can be trusted to determine the licensability of the fmg's from various schools.
    My evidence from the recruiter has been criticized as "hearsay." Not quite. This person has represented a number of fmgs to state licensing boards and so has direct experience dealing with them. Her experience is of the type known as "mundane," rather than theoretical. No, I do not take it as conclusive, but neither do I dismiss it. For example, if your wife comes to you and says she smells gas in the cellar, do you dismiss it as "hearsay?" Of course not. OK, on to my activities today.
    Today I contacted a number of organizations with the purpose of getting statistical information about the ACTUAL licensure from various foreign med schools. I contacted 3 research med schools, the academy of medicine, several agencies who created the NOAH database used in NYS to publicly research docs, and the AMA. The AMA has IMG committees in about 12 states that advise the licensure boards - have you had enough of bureaucracies yet? What I found so far is that the AMA has the data and probably so does the NYS people. If I can get my hands on it, it may be quite revealing.
    ANd as I pointed out earlier, some of this effort would be obviated if the schools published lists of licensed grads. And why not? It's public information. To my mind, it's suspicious that they don't, since it's strongly in their interest to do so.
    So in sum, I'd like to see at least a few licensed grads - hopefully more than 20. Secondly, I am reserved about your explanation of licensure as a simple formality. Yes, it should be so, logically. But have you ever dealt with government bureaucracies? Athough I don't take the recruiter's opiunion as definitive, her statement that she doesn't see schools other than Debrecen from eastern europe getting licensure. She didn't seem like a bullsh---er to me. What I have to conclude from this is "It is inconclusive. More info needed." If you give me NC's state, I will check with him.
    Finally, I will press forward trying to get some definitive data. I'm just interested in a good answer here, and am not necessarily gratuitously pessimistic about any school's chances, unless I see no licensed grads in evidence. I will email Charles english and ask them about licensed grads. Hey, every business is judged by their product, and Charles's exact product is licensed grads, right? And what's wrong with asking about a firm's product before you pay an exorbitant price for it in time and money? What's all the gnashing of teeth about anyway?
    Last edited by Moderator; 04-15-2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: TOS Violation: Names

  9. #18
    maximillian genossa's Avatar
    maximillian genossa is offline Ultimate Member
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    No you should not worry, as I said, medical licensing is not rocket science as some people try to portray it or try to pretend they discovered gun powder when it already exists. No biggie there, seen this since 1991, never impressed me, never will. Good luck!

    Quote Originally Posted by shrey View Post
    Oh wow, I didn't know that. I guess it's bad for me lol coz I go to a CA-accredited school. Oh well, I guess I'm not too worried.

    Btw, do you also go to med school in Europe?
    "Sacrifice turns to revenge and believe me
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  10. #19
    shrey is offline Senior Member 526 points
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    To Medical inventor:

    I'm sorry I actually misspelled his last name. It's N C and he is a licensed Obstetrician & Gynecologist in the state of Virginia:

    Dr. NC (Obstetrician & Gynecologist) - Doctor in Roanoke, VA - Obstetrics & Gynecology (this link also clearly states that he graduated from Charles University, Prague)

    You can also perhaps look him up in the database.

    I was just browsing a few other grads from Charles Univ. and I came across a few of them:

    Dr. BD, a Board-certified Family practitioner (Regional Medical Center, Manchester, IA -)

    Dr. PB, a board-certified internist (and also a pulmonologist) - Dr. Bezdicik of Goshen Medical Associates

    Dr. JK, a board-certified pediatrician from Illinois (Medical Staff)

    There are tons and tons of other grads but I don't have enough time to look them up. The problem with many Central European schools is that they don't keep a track of their medical graduates (there are a few exceptions, as with the 4 year programs in Poland)

    I assume you already have a Bachelor's degree, in which case you should consider attending one of the 4 year Polish medical programs (all CA-approved) or the 4 year medical medical program in Croatia (not CA-approved) which cater to American and Canadian college students. This suggestion only applies if you're looking at med schools in Europe. These universities also have affiliations with medical schools in the US and they also offer electives in the US medical schools. Some (actually I think only Poznan U. does this) also give out NBME tests (which are used in the US medical schools, the so-called "shelf exams") to prepare you for the MLE. You can look all this stuff up on their websites.

    Charles University doesn't arrange for any electives with it's partner institutes in the US (and elsewhere) but they do allow students to do their electives in any country. Dr. Neil Correia as a matter of fact did a lot of his electives and rotations in the US. He used to be very active on this forum (you can check the previous threads) but I guess he's quite busy now. He also runs a company that helps FMGs/IMGs (USIMGs) as well as AMGs get into the US (by helping them with MLEs, ECFMG certification, and electives/externships/observerships.)

    We are having another Charles University graduate give us a seminar on residency and board-certification here at our faculty on the 14th of April. I don't know his name, but after I attend it, I'll give it to you and you can look him up under that database you mentioned.

    And yes, Aviv couldn't have said it better. "Medical licensing is NOT rocket science." Yes it's hard to get certified in some states like Florida, California, Texas and perhaps NM (although Aviv tells me that NM is no longer following the California list, so I don't know if that would make things easier.)

    Secondly, if you observe all the requirements imposed by each of these medical boards (CHART OF LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR PHYSICIANS BY STATE), you will notice that almost every board mentions that international medical graduates need ECFMG certification, TOEFL scores, and some sort of post-graduate training (AKA residency.) Will you definitely get certified if you have all these requirements? I can't answer that but in many cases, yes (unless you have some sort of a medico-legal/crime record.) Lastly, some states in general are quite tough to get into for foreign medical graduates...that's just a fact (which is why you see a lot of FMGs/USIMGs flocking together in the IMG friendly states like New York, Maryland and New Jersey.)

    If you're very concerned about this licensure procedure, it's best to actually attend an American medical school. The purpose of these english programs in Europe is to give you a sound medical education that will make you a competent doctor (as long as you do your part). They don't care whether you want to go to the US or Greenland (however, this is gradually changing and they are trying their best to cater to the needs of students from North America.) Most of the graduates from the Central European medical schools (with the exception of the 4 year medical program) are either British (who usually end up going back to UK), Malaysians (sponsored by their govt. and they have to return back once they're done), Greeks/Cypriots, and finally Scandinavians (who also end up going back to their country). The 4 year programs in Europe from what I've heard, are very very rigorous and they have a good reputation (this is not the case with all the Carribean schools as most US doctors/physicians directly presume Carribean schools as an alternative for those who didn't make it to a med school in the US.)
    Last edited by Moderator; 04-15-2010 at 12:18 PM. Reason: TOS Violation: Names


  11. #20
    maximillian genossa's Avatar
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    Arkansas, not NM, Arkansas does not follow the California list anymore, NM does...and yes, I reiterate myself, liceinsing is not rocket science

    Not being familiar with it and trying to complicate it or make it look complicated in order to pursue G-d know what agenda against IMG's or FMG's is another thing. Such people will not be the first nor the last I encounter since the 1995. That's is what residency training and board certification is for...to prove your level of competence.

    Thanks Shrey!
    Last edited by Aviv Imanuel; 04-13-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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