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  1. #1
    azskeptic's Avatar
    azskeptic is offline Moderator 666 points
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    chiropractors and med school

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    I am very interested in hearing from the DC's on this board how the transition is into medical school. It would appear that there are quite a few on this list that are chiropractors..perhaps some with longer periods of time out of school than others. I was telling a chiropractor friend of mine that many of you are making the leap but he seemed reluctant..he has been out of school for 12 years. Just curious.......and do you intend to continue to use your chiropractic training/scope of practice after you are licensed also as MD's?

  2. #2
    dsfx is offline Junior Member
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    chiropratic and med school

    I have some questions for you, You tend to spend alot of time on these forums,critizing chiropractors, dentists , nurses, podiatrists and PA's. What type a training do you have? What makes your opinions better then the average individual on the street? I see you question how a chiroractor could practice once he gets his MD. What are you talking about. All chiropractors are not witch doctors as you seem to assume. Most chiro's that are trying to obtain there MD's will be the most conservative medical doctors you have seen. Using drugs and surgery as last resort. I have been praciting since 1988 , I do not tell patients we cure all, I refer to MD's, I mainly treat musclcular /skeletal problems and they have done very well. I still do not understand your bias towards chiro's.

  3. #3
    Habeed is offline Junior Member
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    hmm

    Well, no matter how credible you may be, dsfx, the fact remains that chiros have a less than stellar repuatation. (yes, half it of very well could be the AMA slandering them, and MD's have killed people by the thousands in the past when they screwed up their methodologies). Given that a chiro must already be a decent clinician, giving up another 7 years or more of their life must require strong reasons. So, Azkeptic is wondering whether the chiropractor training makes medical school significantly easier, and whether chiros are attending because they no longer believe in the methodology or because they want the extra income and respect of an MD, or because they want to treat a different set of problems.

  4. #4
    azskeptic's Avatar
    azskeptic is offline Moderator 666 points
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    hmm

    Well, I suppose it is a good question. I am a consumer advocate which means that I study things, ask questions, and express my opinion. My qualifications are that I am not in a competitive field (I am not a physician,chiropractor,etc.) and I am an educated man. But that isn't really important in the scheme of things. Curiousity leads me to try to understand.

    Yes, I oppose on-line medical school and advanced credit placement for non-physicians in medical school based on their chiropractic,dental,etc. studies. I am not anti-chiropractic..I believe there is a place for chiropractic and have gone to chiropractors in the past. I beleive that the chiropractic industry seems to have a lot of problems,not necessarily brought on by the AMA but rather by the infighting between evidence based scientific chiropractors and those who are way on the other side (Life Graduates for lack of a better term).

    It would seem to me that as a medical student when you look at the science you are taught it would be hard to continue to believe some of what you have been taught.

    anyway, not trying to fight, only asking questions. If that doesn't answer your question I would be happy to talk privately with you.

  5. #5
    dsfx is offline Junior Member
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    med school

    My reason may be much different then others, but there are several, One to prove that chiropractors are not all idiots. To expand my current scope, to be able to treat the whole person, to simply do something different, I have always wanted to be a family doctor, yes I know some chiropractors say they are, but I'm realistic, I know we can't treat everything.. I like to practice as a GP but also use my skills as chiropractor . I would not induce drug therapy first, but would look for more conservative approaches to healthcare. What I have seen over 15 years, are patients that are medical failures , usally post surgical that have not responsed, chronic cases or individuals who living off drug therapy. In reference to do I think my chiropracic education will help me pass the boards, I say yes. I've been taking some practice test thru Kaplan and been going thru the USMLE review it's appears ,I'll do well, except for my spelling, By the way every proffession has it's problems, how many people die from medical errors everyday in the US, I'm sure these are not just from FMG's. I've met alot of US medical grads that can't tie their shoes

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    dsfx is offline Junior Member
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    med school and chiro's

    Yes,trust me chiropractic does have it's problems. but so do alot of other health professions in the US. Look I'm not looking for a fight either, I'm just saying we are not all the same, some of us are more medically incline than others, some are just off the wall. I just want to continue a path I started a long time ago. I believe medicine and chiropractic education will work well together, and my education in both well benefit my patients, I like people and want to continue helping them.

  7. #7
    Habeed is offline Junior Member
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    yeah

    Correct, dsfx. I know chiropractors vary considerably in methodology and approach. Also, MDs, while enjoying a better image in the public eye, have killed and maimed people by the tens of thousands in the past by skipping vigorous testing of new treatments. Perhaps you have read of the tens of thousands of preemie infants blinded by the use of pure oxygen, and the thousands more who died by poorly written laws banning use of high oxygen concentration for even short periods. There are countless other examples, from drugs and vaccine's harmful effects to surgeries gone badly wrong, leaving a mess of scar tissue and numbness.

  8. #8
    teratos's Avatar
    teratos is offline Jedi Moderator 658 points
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    Human Error

    There will always be bad apples that get through the system and wreak havoc. You cannot apply that to the entire profession. Think about it. When a surgeon amputates the wrong leg, it makes national news. Everyone knows about it. It doesn't happen that often. As for "disfiguring" surgeries, there are a lot of instances of that. Surgery in and of itself is a risky venture, and cosmetic surgery is not without it's complications. If you get a tummy tuck and then develop necrotizing fasciitis, you will be disfigured, if not dead. Is that the fault of the surgeon? I guess it could be, but it is also a risk of the procedure, even when done correctly.

    There is a trial and error period with every new treatment. Sometimes, despite being studied, effects are not seen until drugs/treatments make it into the general population. The effect may be so rare that it did not show up in the study population, despite being of a large size and the study being well done. Look at Rezulin. There were a few cases of fulminant hepatic failure...not many when you considered the number of people on the drug, but when it happened it was usually fatal.

    Vaccines....this is a STUPID arguement. What is the incidence of autism from vaccines? How can you say vaccines CAUSE autism, when the vast majority of children get them. How about the amount of disease and death PREVENTED by vaccines. The number of children who died of what are now preventable diseases is several orders of magnitude higher than the number of children who "get autism" from vaccines. Even if vaccines cause autism at the rate the opponents say they do, I would still vaccineate my child rather than risk measles, mumps, rubella, polio etc. I would bet that the number of kids getting subacute sclerosing panencephalitis would be higher than the number of kids who "become autistic" from vaccines. Let me present some liturature for you:

    "In a more direct study, Madsen and others examined all children (more than half a million) born in Denmark from 1991 through 1998. Of those children, 82 percent had received the MMR vaccine. The other 18% did not. The researchers found that there was no difference between the autism rate of vaccinated children as compared to unvaccinated children. In such a large study, even a slight increase in the risk of autism due to the MMR vaccine would show up. However, no such increase was seen. This is strong evidence that the MMR vaccine is not linked to autism."

    Kreesten Meldgaard Madsen, et al. "A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism" NEJM 2002;347:1477-1482

    Then there is the study on silicone breast implants. They put the company OUT OF BUSINESS with lawsuits. Then we did some solid research. Guess what? No increase in connective tissue disease was seen in a well done study. You can say that this is all a conspiracy, but I'm going with the data. G
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  9. #9
    Nebakanezer is offline Agnostic Member 510 points
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    Re: Human Error

    Dr. Durst, you certainly make a persuasive argument

    I think anyone who prescribes to current scientific methodology and rationale thought will have difficulty finding fault in any of the arguments made throughout your last post.

  10. #10
    FLK's Avatar
    bannedFLK
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    blood on their hands

    I would like to take it a step further and place blame on the media that reported the bogus paper that found a link between autism and MMR ( I believe it was in Lancet ) while barely mentioning the multiple meta analyses that refuted the paper

    somewhere I am sure that some child went unprotected ( not only from MMR ) but from other vaccines that were lumped into the same category.

    I am willing to bet that there are dead or severely affected children that suffered because they didn't receive the approppriate vaccinations based on bad data that was made legitimate by the media and trial lawyer lobby

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