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  1. #1
    azskeptic's Avatar
    azskeptic is offline Moderator 666 points
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    What to do if you can't get into a US Med School or Osteopat

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    Many people coming to a forum like this have been beaten up in the process of trying to get into medical schools in the US. If they have tried the osteopathic school route and also failed to get in they are good candidates for offshore schools (the Osteopathic schools can be difficult to get into also).

    Some people look at the US govt. websites and they recommend alternative professions like chiropractic,nursing,etc.
    I have always wondered why people go to chiropractic
    school,in light of the massive information available
    showing it as a hard way to make a living. In addition
    you are facing a life of frustration in that your
    scope of practice won't allow you to do alot of what
    is needed to help your patient i.e. you can't give
    shots,you can't do surgery, you can't admit to a
    hospital. You end up as a second rate citizen, even
    when you are a nice person who has tried to gain
    education in the healing process.

    If you have a low MCAT or grad point average, even carib. schools are becoming harder for people to get admitted to. The schools are
    trying to take the best students they can i.e. best
    student meaning they test well but not necessarily are
    better care providers. If you aren't a person who
    scores 25-30 on your MCATS you are facing trouble in the US though some still get admitted if they have unique backgrounds or stories. You need sometimes to get some help packaging yourself.

    So what do you do? go to a
    reputable offshore school. The top 3 (the Harvards of
    the Carib.

    http://www.aucmed.edu/

    http://www.rossmed.edu/

    http://www.sgu.edu/

    If you can't get in there, you go to the second range
    schools:

    http://www.saba.edu/

    http://www.stmatthews.edu/

    http://www.stjamesmed.com/

    http://www.gdl.uag.mx/medicine/default.html

    If you get turned down there,it may be that you aren't going to become an MD. Don't waste your money with internet based medical schools or those located in fleabag locations--visit the school, consult state medical boards to see how they are regarded. If you can't get in to carib schools, then go to a
    physicians assistant school or nurse practicioner,etc.
    training that will allow you to help people and get
    paid a decent salary. Some people go back to school and show they can make the grades and then get into medical school.

    There are other alternative medical schools (the hybrid African recognized/England located schools St. Chris and Kigezi which have few grads yet and may have WHO approval problems in the future), the E. Europe schools and these are all additional alternatives if you still have fire in your belly to go to med school after having been turned down everywhere else.

    ValueMd is a great place to hear from students their experiences and even interact with State Board employees. It is all part of the education process.
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  2. #2
    Beaker's Avatar
    Beaker is offline Member 512 points
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    azskeptic

    whats this, a relatively postive post from azskeptic that actually contains some guidance and alternatives rather than his typical skeptism. i'm very impressed. keep it up!

    i'm gonna play devils advocate here for the sake of debate, but i dont necessarily agree with everything i'm presenting here.

    first of all, sgu, auc and ross r commonly referred to as the "big 3" and not the "top 3" like u wrote. the name came about coz of their "big" class sizes. they might also be the "top 3" choices for many, but that is based on opinions which have not be been universally accepted, like the term "big 3".

    also, i've only heard ppl refer to sgu as the "harvard of the carib". but to say all of the big 3 r the "harvards of the carib" is also a new concept ur presenting again and therefore not widelly accepted. but if this was simply ur own opinions, sorry for misunderstanding.

    still playing the devils advocate, i'll disagree with ur assessment of chiropractors.

    Some people look at the US govt. websites and they recommend alternative professions like chiropractic,nursing,etc.
    I have always wondered why people go to chiropractic
    school,in light of the massive information available
    showing it as a hard way to make a living. In addition
    you are facing a life of frustration in that your
    scope of practice won't allow you to do alot of what
    is needed to help your patient i.e. you can't give
    shots,you can't do surgery, you can't admit to a
    hospital. You end up as a second rate citizen, even
    when you are a nice person who has tried to gain
    education in the healing process.
    in the medical field, the medical team works together to help the pts, but we all have different roles. some give shots, do surgery, admit to hospitals, etc while others do other things which some can argue is no less important (nurses, lab techs, etc.)

    but it might help u to think of chiros as specialists who only deal with one thing, adjusting the spinal cord. unless ur a d.o., a physician doesnt do this. instead they will try to provide relief through means like giving shots, doing surgery, or admitting to the hospital. in the same way that an m.d. wont adjust a spine (or a phsychiatrist wont do surgery), chiros will not do the things u mentioned.

    r u also saying that specializing in one field of medicine is not recommended coz u wont be able to do things that other specialists can do? in those cases, u would refer to a specialist who can do them. well the same argument can be made for chiros who can adjust adjust backs, but will stay clear of other things.

    enuf with the devils advocate stuff. my own personal view is that some (not all) chiros r quacks. particularly the ones who tell u they can cure cancer by adjusting ur back (along with lifetime adjustments for a price). but i can also say that some chiros provide some pain relief that can not always be provided by an m.d., which shows they can be a useful part of health care in certain situations.

    but theres now a new hybrid of the 2 professions with a title of d.o. theyre trained in spinal manipulations similar to chiros as well as the things u mentioned about the m.d. but only a very, very small percent of d.o. actually perform manipulations, so they r really no different than an m.d. in the real world.

    my point is that a medical team is made up of alot more than just the ppl who give shots, do surgery, or admit pts to hospitals. an m.d. would be very limited and largely unsuccessful without the many others who contribute to pt care. there should be no shame in wanting to help others without being a physician. but dont claim to cure cancer from it either

    peace

  3. #3
    stephew is offline Moderator Guru 512 points
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    well

    beaker actually, whether or not you happen to agree with assessment, the "big three" was a not a ref to class size but indeed the sence that they were the "top" schools to choose from. But its not a designation like "Ivy league". Ie it means nothing.

    but to be honest arguing this or the harvard of the carib really is nit picking if you ask me. Sgu students would sardonically call themselves both the harvard of the caribbean, but equally, the "cream of the crap".

    Please guys, keep this in context; its not a comment on the quality of anything, only the facts regarding the monkiers that have come along over the years amongst students.
    Steph
    If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

  4. #4
    azskeptic's Avatar
    azskeptic is offline Moderator 666 points
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    chiropractic

    my theory is that the field of chiropractics is so rampant with fraud and quackery that the good folks get lost in the chase. Some of my friends who are DC's are extremely good at listening to patients,etc. but their tools are limited...they can work well on lower back but they can't do much else scientifically. When you get through med school you'll see most MD's and DO's have little to do with chiropractors since they see the quacks mostly...you know the types, the ones who try to get patients hooked on chiropractic for life (they go to workshops that teach them that). They sell vitamins for a wide range of things that have no scientific base.

    Reference 'top' 'Harvard' I guess I am distiguishing them as having the most intrastructure. Beaker, go through my posts and you'll find more positive than negative...just may be that my negatives trip your trigger because they are apart issues that you disagree.

    az skeptic
    Moderator - State Licensing Forum

    Still skeptical after all these years.
    This is it. There are no hidden meanings.WYSIWYG

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  5. #5
    Beaker's Avatar
    Beaker is offline Member 512 points
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    well

    Quote Originally Posted by stephew
    beaker actually, whether or not you happen to agree with assessment, the "big three" was a not a ref to class size but indeed the sence that they were the "top" schools to choose from. But its not a designation like "Ivy league". Ie it means nothing.
    its just the opposite. i agree with the assessment that these r the top 3 choices for many which is proven by their larger enrollment numbers. but i disagree that the ppl who use the term "big 3" r in agreement that these r the universally accepted "top 3" rather than the "big 3". if they thought that ppl would make that misinterpretation, i doubt they would use it in sentences like "i chose my school over the 'big 3' coz...". how can they choose something over their top choices?

    the big 3 r the largest (most students and grads), been around the longest, r the best known (different than 'known to be the best'), etc. there is not an undisputed concensus saying theyre the best 3 to choose from for everyone, but i do agree that theyre the best choices for many ppl. but many others have different priorities (costs, time, class size, location, etc) who will choose other places over the big 3. even though not everyone will place them collectively as their "top" choices, it is an undisputed fact that sgu, ross and auc r the biggest and therefore have all of the associated pros and cons associated with that classification, hence the appropriate term the "big 3". but please dont mistake that to mean that theyre the "top 3", whether or not u would agree with that assessment.

    the "cream of the crap".
    i just love that one hope u dont mind if i use it

  6. #6
    Beaker's Avatar
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    chiropractic

    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    Beaker, go through my posts and you'll find more positive than negative...just may be that my negatives trip your trigger because they are apart issues that you disagree.

    az skeptic
    c'mon azskepic, its all in ur name, u present a mostly skeptical view of things. nothing wrong with that as long as u have good intentions (i think u do) and as long as u provide alternatives, which u did in this last post.

    its kinda like pos and neg reinforcement. theyre both meant to accomplish the same thing, but in different ways and with different effectiveness.

    using ur posts, by telling someone that what theyre doing is no good, u have given them nothing to choose to correct their "bad choice", and this can only lead to a discouraging message. but if u tell them that the bad choice can be fixed by doing something else, u have given them hope and encouagement.

    i'm sure i'm not the first to see this in ur posts. maybe i should have used the words "encouraging" and "discouraging" instead of "pos" and "neg", but thats what i meant. so it has nothing to do with my agreement or disagreement with ur message. instead its based on providing information which can be used to better the person's situation rather than simply pointing out how bad their choices have been. but no offense intended

  7. #7
    TaxiDriver is offline Member
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    top 3

    If someone wants to come back to the US to practice, then SGU, Ross and AUC should be heavily looked at. I agree these could be referred to as the top 3, whether in # of ppl going or quality. There should be very few reasons why you should pick another school instead of these 3. Being established, having a long history, many practicing grads and some familarity with residency directors are important.

    The "big" name comes from the notion that these are the best schools you should go to if you want to come back the US quickly. Why would you go to a school with a 20% Step 1 pass rate instead? Why would you go to a school that keeps its graduates and clinicals a secret instead?

  8. #8
    azskeptic's Avatar
    azskeptic is offline Moderator 666 points
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    chiropractic

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaker
    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    Beaker, go through my posts and you'll find more positive than negative...just may be that my negatives trip your trigger because they are apart issues that you disagree.

    az skeptic
    c'mon azskepic, its all in ur name, u present a mostly skeptical view of things. nothing wrong with that as long as u have good intentions (i think u do) and as long as u provide alternatives, which u did in this last post.

    its kinda like pos and neg reinforcement. theyre both meant to accomplish the same thing, but in different ways and with different effectiveness.

    using ur posts, by telling someone that what theyre doing is no good, u have given them nothing to choose to correct their "bad choice", and this can only lead to a discouraging message. but if u tell them that the bad choice can be fixed by doing something else, u have given them hope and encouagement.

    i'm sure i'm not the first to see this in ur posts. maybe i should have used the words "encouraging" and "discouraging" instead of "pos" and "neg", but thats what i meant. so it has nothing to do with my agreement or disagreement with ur message. instead its based on providing information which can be used to better the person's situation rather than simply pointing out how bad their choices have been. but no offense intended
    Ok, let's change my screen name......got any ideas?
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  9. #9
    Beaker's Avatar
    Beaker is offline Member 512 points
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    top 3

    Quote Originally Posted by TaxiDriver
    If someone wants to come back to the US to practice, then SGU, Ross and AUC should be heavily looked at. I agree these could be referred to as the top 3, whether in # of ppl going or quality. There should be very few reasons why you should pick another school instead of these 3. Being established, having a long history, many practicing grads and some familarity with residency directors are important.

    The "big" name comes from the notion that these are the best schools you should go to if you want to come back the US quickly. Why would you go to a school with a 20% Step 1 pass rate instead? Why would you go to a school that keeps its graduates and clinicals a secret instead?
    ur mixing up the terms. i'm not saying that sgu, ross and auc are or are not the top 3 schools in the carib. i'm saying that the term that is widely used, "big 3", refers to the relative size, history, rep, etc. rather than the quality. that doesnt mean that they arent the "top" quality, it just means that the term "big" has been meant to describe quantity and not quality. in addition to being the biggest, some (not all) also consider them to be the best. but please dont confuse the terms to mean the same thing is all i'm saying.

    ur other points about choosing one school over another have nothing to do with the term "big" vs "top", so i wont attempt to answer them since theyre unrelated to the topic.

  10. #10
    dsfx is offline Junior Member
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    misc

    AZSKEPTIC, why the ongoing chiropratic bashing?

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