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Thread: Statement of Need for J1 Visa Denied!

  1. #1
    CanadaPaul is offline Member 523 points
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    Statement of Need for J1 Visa Denied!

    My wife and I couples matched into a competitive specialty in the US and now we're being told the quota of 'Statements of Need' for that specialty have been reached for the year - fyi they gave out FIVE of them!

    Has anybody else encountered this? This is so mind blowing that not only could we not get residency in Canada despite scoring in the 99.5th percentile on the MCCEE exam, now they are preventing us from training in the US because according to them, they wont need us in 5-6 years when we finish.

    I am desperate for help/advice from anybody who has gone through this or know somebody who has.

  2. #21
    Mourning Cloak is offline Member 529 points
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    This problem really caught my interest.

    FYI, in 2014, the "unlimited endorsement" specialties are:

    - Anatomical Pathology
    - Anesthesiology
    - Dermatology
    - Emergency Medicine
    - Family Medicine
    - General Pathology
    - Internal Medicine
    - Neurology (Adult only)
    - Pediatrics
    - Psychiatry

    The specialties with a limit were:

    Cardiac Surgery 2
    Diagnostic Radiology 5
    General Surgery 7
    Hematological Pathology 2
    Medical Biochemistry 2
    Medical Genetics 3
    Medical Microbiology 2
    Neuropathology 2
    Neurosurgery 2
    Nuclear Medicine 2
    Obstetrics and Gynecology 15
    Ophthalmology 6
    Orthopedic Surgery 2
    Otolaryngology 2
    Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation 6
    Plastic Surgery 2
    Public Health & Preventive Medicine 4
    Radiation Oncology 2
    Urology 4
    Vascular Surgery 2

    Which means that I was wrong . . . it does appear as though there is a limit of five SON for radiology for the country.

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-r...-liste-eng.php

    For the OP: Have you tried cutting a deal with Quebec? There is no limit on SON for physicians intending to practice in Quebec upon return; you might be able to get the Ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux du Québec (MSSS) to back you (e.g. signing a return-in-service contact for a few years).
    Last edited by Mourning Cloak; 04-06-2014 at 03:19 PM.

  3. #22
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    (YES. The situation for the OP's family bites, and I hope they can find a solution. I wonder of other provinces would be more forthcoming with a letter? It might be worth working x-amount of years in Manitoba -- or wherever -- to get through residency and into practice under the Maple Leaf.)

    To your question... yeah. I am in Switzerland, which kind of operates as an outlier over here... being non-EU and all that. I am not aware of any similar problems here. It is not perfect, but the system works (and it makes more sense than the systems that either the US or Canada have going on, in my opinion).

    Switzerland covers everybody, but they eschew the UK/Canada model (as well as the US "model") and have developed their own system of managed-market health care. They have laws under which health insurance companies are required to function, as well as laws to prevent the companies from abusing the populace (or denying coverage)... plus systems in place to keep the insurance companies from losing their shirts for covering someone with a litany of co-morbidities. There is an actual effort made to keep people on any side of the health care equation from getting screwed... patients, doctors, hospitals, health care companies.

    As far as residency goes, they tweak the system for allowing foreigners in to train as residents every now and again, but the different cantons (states/provinces) have a ton of legal leeway in managing their affairs, and they seem to make it work pretty damn well. Health care is still expensive, but the quality is extremely high. The Swiss need doctors (not graduating enough of their own) and they pull in a lot of docs from France and Germany, because they pay like 50% more here, and the docs already speak the language fluently. There is also no official match system, although some of the more competitive specialties will have a regional system of interviews and selection akin to a mini-match in some areas. Programs hire the amount of residents that they need based on their specific hiring qualifications and (if necessary) the ability of a foreign candidate to get a work permit.

    "When I haven't any
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    BA - Oregon ° MS - BYU ° MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


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    ValuableCanadian is offline Member 512 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning Cloak View Post
    For the OP: Have you tried cutting a deal with Quebec? There is no limit on SON for physicians intending to practice in Quebec upon return; you might be able to get the Ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux du Québec (MSSS) to back you (e.g. signing a return-in-service contact for a few years).
    Quebec? I doubt this is good advice. Quebec is not supporting radiology according to the list. Besides, quebec asks for proof of residence.
    account no longer in use.

  5. #24
    Mourning Cloak is offline Member 529 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by ValuableCanadian View Post
    Quebec? I doubt this is good advice. Quebec is not supporting radiology according to the list. Besides, quebec asks for proof of residence.
    Oops, I thought I saw it on their list.

    Well, that's me out of ideas

  6. #25
    devildoc8404's Avatar
    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    Do any of the underserved provinces have opportunities for Canadians from outside their borders? (Saskatchewan, or wherever?)

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon ° MS - BYU ° MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


  7. #26
    CanadaPaul is offline Member 523 points
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    In the past you were able to 'shop around' and try to find a different province to sponsor you. However, this year they changed it and now you have to be sponsored by your home province.

    Here's another messed up thing about this whole mess. Health Canada states they derive their quota after discussions with the provinces/territories about their needs for specialists. But when it comes down to applying for the Statement of Need there is no check to see if the applicant is from one of the provinces that needs that specialty. So it's pointless!


    By the way, if anybody is interested, here is the Ontario Physician Needs report from 2010 put out by the very Health Ministry that is denying us the Statement that clearly shows an across the board need for Radiologists in Ontario.

    http://www.healthforceontario.ca/Use...ct-2010-en.pdf

  8. #27
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    Brilliant. And here I thought that, in addition to their hockey gold medals, Canada kinda had their crap together...

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
    ."
    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon ° MS - BYU ° MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


  9. #28
    CanadaPaul is offline Member 523 points
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    Health Canada is telling applicants for the SoN that their First-Come First-Served system is fair. How can it be a fair system if I am physically unable to apply for a SoN before somebody else because of life circumstances? What if I was at a funeral? What if I was hit by a car and in the hospital? What if I am a fourth year medical student and on Match day I am working in Intensive Care. Should I drop everything and leave because I need to rush my application for a SoN to Health Canada? Should everything I've worked for over the past 4 years be thrown in the toilet because I wasn't able to send my application in fast enough? It's like they never gave it any thought.

    Imagine applications for med school worked the same way. Screw your MCAT scores, your volunteer work and your university transcript. First to apply gets in. It's laughable, but for some reason the people who came up with this policy at Health Canada think it's an appropriate method for people to get into residency. Unbelievable.
    devildoc8404 and cpt.ricard like this.

  10. #29
    ValuableCanadian is offline Member 512 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaPaul View Post
    Health Canada is telling applicants for the SoN that their First-Come First-Served system is fair. How can it be a fair system if I am physically unable to apply for a SoN before somebody else because of life circumstances? What if I was at a funeral? What if I was hit by a car and in the hospital? What if I am a fourth year medical student and on Match day I am working in Intensive Care. Should I drop everything and leave because I need to rush my application for a SoN to Health Canada? Should everything I've worked for over the past 4 years be thrown in the toilet because I wasn't able to send my application in fast enough? It's like they never gave it any thought.

    ....... the people who came up with this policy at Health Canada think it's an appropriate method for people to get into residency. Unbelievable.
    So were you delayed for one of those reasons? Were you at a funeral? Were you sick? Were you working that day?

    It isn't people at Health Canada who came up with that policy, it was the people in the provincial ministries of health.
    account no longer in use.

  11. #30
    Mourning Cloak is offline Member 529 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by ValuableCanadian View Post
    So were you delayed for one of those reasons? Were you at a funeral? Were you sick? Were you working that day?
    That whole "first-come-first-served" thing seems besides the point to me. What I take away from this story is that there are more CSAs who matched to US radiology residencies than there are available SONs.

    Even if everyone called the second they found out they matched, at least two people (maybe more) would have dialled too slowly.

    It's extraordinary - the foreign schools should have seminars to warn CSAs about this potential catastrophe. If nothing else, people could make their rank order lists knowing ALL of the risks.

    OP - did you find a way around this?
    Last edited by Mourning Cloak; 04-13-2014 at 02:48 PM.

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