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  1. #1
    usmlecd2004 is offline Newbie
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    Almost nothing in the 2nd iteration for IMG's in 2004

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    IMG match rate in 2004 CaRMS match predicted to be 5%

    Last year in 2003 in the CaRMS match there were 1231 Canadian grads in the Canadian match.

    There were a total of 1317 residency positions.

    So after the Canadian grads matched there were about 189 spots in the second iteration.

    This year the increased enrollement of 2000 classes are graduating, so there are 1319 Canadian medical graduates this year!

    And only 1353 total residency positions.

    This means that there will be only 34 positions (1353-1319) in the second iteration!


    Last year there were 625 IMG's in the CaRMS Match.

    If the same number apply this year 2004, then you are looking at a match rate for IMG's of about 34/625 = 5%


    see the stats here:

    http://www.carms.ca/matchProjection.htm

    http://www.carms.ca/stats/stats2003.htm

  2. #2
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Canadians also match to US programs via NRMP

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if a Canadian applicant matches to a US residency (NRMP match) aren't they automatically withdrawn from CARMS?

    I cannot access the NRMP datatables at http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/data_tables.html to check for the number of Canadian graduates that matched to US programs, but I suspect that there were more than a few. Can someone find that info?

    So, you would also have to account for those automatically withdrawn. Yes, the situation for IMGs is very bad, but I doubt that 5% is a realistic figure.

  3. #3
    usmlecd2004 is offline Newbie
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    hello

    Actually the figure might be less than 5%

    Because see the second iteration of the CaRMS match is not just for IMG's,
    it also includes <u>Canadian grads</u> who did not match in the 1st iteration!

    It ALSO includes previous years Canadian grads.


    For example, in 2003 there were 625 IMG's in the match, but look here:

    http://www.carms.ca/stats/stats2003.htm

    and you will see that there were Canadian medical graduates in the 2nd iteration also.



    I think in 2004, there will be more than IMG's applying. For some reason the number of IMG's
    applying seems to be increasing every year in Canada. Which is weird because. . .well you know why.


    As far as Canadian grads matching in the U.S. NMRP Match, this number is very small, it was 52
    in 2003. It is listed here: http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table2_2003.pdf


    My prediction for the IMG match rate in 2004 with CaRMS is 5 %. (But I think it will be lower than 5 %)

    Just out of curiosity, with only 34 positions available in 2004 in the second iteration, what do
    you think the match rate will be for IMG's in Canada?

  4. #4
    CanIMG is offline Moderator
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    carms

    Yes but don't forget that if a Cdn grad doesn't match in the 1st round he doesn't take up one of the available residency positions.
    CanIMG
    Moderator - Canadian IMG and Immigration Visa Forums

  5. #5
    usmlecd2004 is offline Newbie
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    face reality please

    What you just wrote makes absolutely no sense. If a Canadian grad does not match in the first iteration, then he/she will get a spot in the second iteration. So there will no extra spots like you imply. Do you even know what you are talking about?

    CaRMS had over a thousand IMG applicants last year. But only 625 were able to get at least one interview and therefore enter the match. Of those only about 70 matched. CaRMS listed the match rate as 10%, but it was actually more like 7% (if you include the actual total number of applicants).

    I think people like CanIMG have lost touch with reality. When the match rate is going to be 5% or less this coming year, and yet still posters like CanIMG keep saying comments like "oh but don't forget, that this might happen, or that might happen" it gives you an idea of how pathetic and hopeless they really are.

  6. #6
    CanIMG is offline Moderator
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    one step at a time

    It seems you were not able to grasp what I was saying so let me spell it out for you so that you may understand. By your calcuations, there will be 34 spaces left in the 2nd round of the match...THIS IS ASSUMING ALL CANADIAN GRADS MATCH IN THE 1ST ROUND. If they do not all match in the 1st round, they do not occupy a space in the total number of spots...therefore these spots will carry over into the 2nd round!

    I am as acutely aware as anyone of the difficulties in obtaining residency in Canada. I am correcting a flaw in your argument. Good luck to everyone.
    CanIMG
    Moderator - Canadian IMG and Immigration Visa Forums

  7. #7
    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Match rate

    Quote Originally Posted by usmlecd2004
    Actually the figure might be less than 5%

    As far as Canadian grads matching in the U.S. NMRP Match, this number is very small, it was 52
    in 2003. It is listed here: http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table2_2003.pdf

    My prediction for the IMG match rate in 2004 with CaRMS is 5 %. (But I think it will be lower than 5 %)

    Just out of curiosity, with only 34 positions available in 2004 in the second iteration, what do
    you think the match rate will be for IMG's in Canada?
    Please correct me if I am wrong, but it looks as though the total number of residency spots offered is simply based on the number of Canadian graduates.

    So, my equation is the following:

    TOTAL SPOTS - 1st ITERATION MATCHES - CANADIANS MATCHING TO US - CANADIANS OPTING OUT OF MATCH = 2nd ITERATIONS AVAILABLE

    You are right, 52 is not a great number, but 34 + 52 = 86. But, you may be right if the number of IMGs participating in the 2nd Iteration increases, then 5% could be optimistic.

    The one thing, I still fail to understand is that despite having a need for physicians, Canada does little to increase the availability of postgraduate training for IMGs, which might be a sure way to increase the number of physicians. For instance, I find that the Ontario program requiring one year of residency prior to starting the Ontario IMG program a ridiculous barrier. Any motivated IMG will consider the US, where at a minimum they can receive postgraduate training (though remaining is another question) in short order.

  8. #8
    dt
    dt is offline Elite Member 510 points
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    re: Match rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklos
    The one thing, I still fail to understand is that despite having a need for physicians, Canada does little to increase the availability of postgraduate training for IMGs, which might be a sure way to increase the number of physicians. For instance, I find that the Ontario program requiring one year of residency prior to starting the Ontario IMG program a ridiculous barrier. Any motivated IMG will consider the US, where at a minimum they can receive postgraduate training (though remaining is another question) in short order.

    You will need to think in terms of funding for these positions and when the doctors get full licensure. More doctors, the higher the health budgets required to fund all support services. Once I read somewhere (and I dont know how true it is) that an additional doctor into the system adds at least 1,000,000 dollars to the costs of health care.

  9. #9
    usmlecd2004 is offline Newbie
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    money

    dt is correct,

    in Canada there is budget problems.

    In my opinion there are severe budget problems.

    See at the end of the day it is all about money. Canada has very little money compared to the U.S., in my estimate, Canada has about 7% of the amount of money the U.S. has.

    So that is why they can't create more residencies in Canada.

    The other poster is correct also, that 'one year of living in Ontario' requirement is moronic.

    No IMG in their right mind is going to just sit in Ontario for a year, in order to become eligible to apply to that shady Ontario IMG Program. . . that does not even pay a salary to the IMG's it accepts!!!

    It is unpaid training!!!!

    How can an IMG support themselves?

    Ontario IMG Program: A Post-Graduate Training Program that does not pay a salary.

    Totally worthless.

    To hell with Canada.

  10. #10
    Silenthunder is offline Senior Member
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    Ontario IMG program

    I think that the Ontario IMG program is very silly also,

    But I also recognize that there are several people still applying to it due to the popularity of Ontario as a province to practice in.

    I myself will probably apply to it (provided it's still around in another 4-5 years). I think it's silly, especially since I was born in Ontario!!!

    Cheers all,

    Silenthunder

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