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azskeptic
02-16-2006, 09:36 AM
I spoke to the ECFMG (BK) and was told:

1. They have suspended taking applications from SC students.
2. They have made an inquiry to the Senegal govt to verify if the country recognizes the UK campus graduates.

That is exactly the same thing you will be told if you call 2153865900 and ask.

MDXRS22
02-16-2006, 09:38 AM
Not a good sign at all!!!

PathOne
02-16-2006, 09:51 AM
Ouch! That's bad news. Especially as there's probably no time frame as to when their inquiry will be completed, or what the result will be.

I guess that if the ECFMG has suspended St. Chris grads, there's no chance of taking the USMLE, and thus no chance of even applying for a residency.

stephew
02-16-2006, 10:23 AM
Ouch! That's bad news. Especially as there's probably no time frame as to when their inquiry will be completed, or what the result will be.

I guess that if the ECFMG has suspended St. Chris grads, there's no chance of taking the USMLE, and thus no chance of even applying for a residency.that is the bottom line, unfortunately for st chris students.

azskeptic
02-16-2006, 10:26 AM
http://www.ecfmg.org/2006ib/contents.html (http://www.ecfmg.org/2006ib/contents.html)

jpryor
02-16-2006, 11:19 AM
I guess you can get that perspective if you only ask certain questions, but the whole story is this:

The ECFMG requires its own documentation on government letterhead (with seal). Although this documentation has been provided to IMED by the Senegalese government, ECFMG cannot accept copies and must have originals. The ECFMG has requested the Senegalese government specifically identify the Luton location of the campus in its letter. This was communicated to the school and to the Senegalese government at the end of last week and the government has already responded. There was no mention of "suspension" in the ECFMG letter, although it did state that applications could not be accepted until the official document was received.

Rather than being a new "crisis" as some would have you believe, this is simply bureaucratic clerical work at its finest. There would certainly be a crisis if there was a problem, but there isn't. There is no "investigation" and no "timeframe" concerns. At worst, a student might have to delay applying for a week or two.

Frankly, I think the ECFMG is being extra efficient by specifically requesting that the Luton campus be identified so that this issue can be put to rest once and for all. And before any naysayers raise the US issue, the FSMB has already recognized the unique situation and stated that it is acceptable. That doesn't mean that some states will agree with it, but on the whole, the FSMB has no problems. (AsianDoc had posted that link in another thread).

azskeptic
02-16-2006, 11:34 AM
I guess you can get that perspective if you only ask certain questions, but the whole story is this:

The ECFMG requires its own documentation on government letterhead (with seal). Although this documentation has been provided to IMED by the Senegalese government, ECFMG cannot accept copies and must have originals. The ECFMG has requested the Senegalese government specifically identify the Luton location of the campus in its letter. This was communicated to the school and to the Senegalese government at the end of last week and the government has already responded. There was no mention of "suspension" in the ECFMG letter, although it did state that applications could not be accepted until the official document was received.

Rather than being a new "crisis" as some would have you believe, this is simply bureaucratic clerical work at its finest. There would certainly be a crisis if there was a problem, but there isn't. There is no "investigation" and no "timeframe" concerns. At worst, a student might have to delay applying for a week or two.

Frankly, I think the ECFMG is being extra efficient by specifically requesting that the Luton campus be identified so that this issue can be put to rest once and for all. And before any naysayers raise the US issue, the FSMB has already recognized the unique situation and stated that it is acceptable. That doesn't mean that some states will agree with it, but on the whole, the FSMB has no problems. (AsianDoc had posted that link in another thread). Per the email yesterday this should be fixed today or tomorrow? Why can they do this quickly and the GMC has been over 100 days? Curious.

maximillian genossa
02-16-2006, 11:44 AM
I just received this from the ECFMG and I hope it put to rest any speculation:


"At the present time, ECFMG is not registering students and graduates of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine, Senegal, for the USMLE. This is because ECFMG requires clarification of the status of the medical school’s program in the United Kingdom with respect to the school’s recognition by the government of Senegal.

One of the requirements for a medical school student or graduate to be eligible to apply to ECFMG is that the student or graduate’s medical school must be listed in the International Medical Education Directory (IMED) maintained by the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research (FAIMER®). A detailed description of all ECFMG requirements is contained in the ECFMG Information Booklet. The link is http://www.ecfmg.org/2006ib/contents.html (http://www.ecfmg.org/2006ib/contents.html)

St. Christopher’s College of Medicine, Senegal, is listed in the International Medical Education Directory (IMED) based, in part, on its recognition by the government of Senegal. ECFMG has no documentation, however, that the Senegalese government’s recognition of the medical school includes the program in the United Kingdom.

FAIMER has written to the government of Senegal to ascertain whether the government of Senegal’s recognition of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine includes the program in the United Kingdom. When a reply is received, ECFMG will advise St. Christopher’s College of Medicine and students and graduates who have pending applications at ECFMG."

maximillian genossa
02-16-2006, 11:48 AM
Since the postion of the ECFMG is clear. they are awaiting for the governemtn of Senegal to confirm or ascertain whether the government of Senegal’s recognition of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine includes the program in the United Kingdom.

Very simple as long as the Senegalese government confirms this. The ball is on the Senegalese government court.


If Senegal confirms this, SC clears that hurlde and business as usual.


Hope this clarifies all up.


Pardon any spelling errors, I have been up all night.

Max

empathy
02-16-2006, 11:53 AM
I've been up all night too soooo I don't get this? Ofcourse the Senegalese government will back them up right? Didn't they visit the college?


Since the postion of the ECFMG is clear. they are awaiting for the governemtn of Senegal to confirm or ascertain whether the government of Senegal’s recognition of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine includes the program in the United Kingdom.

Very simple as long as the Senegalese governemtn confirms this. The ball is on the Senegalese government court.

If Senegal confirms this, SC clears that hurlde and business as usual.

Hope this clarifies all up.

Pardon any spelling errors, I have been up all night.

Max

jpryor
02-16-2006, 12:00 PM
Per the email yesterday this should be fixed today or tomorrow? Why can they do this quickly and the GMC has been over 100 days? Curious.

I certainly wouldn't bet on this part of it being resolved by the end of the week. I agree, this matter seemingly could have been resolved within a week's time, but it HAS been taking forever. Had this occured in the States I presume it would have been a faster process. But between three countries...well, we can see that it is taking longer than any of us are comfortable with. I don't know what is slowing things down (maybe document translation?) [wild guess].

As for the GMC, the word I have been getting is that the vetting process has gone beyond the charter issue and that SC is being put through the same process as other UK schools. I won't risk being wrong by trying to remember the specifics, but I do recall they were looking at the academic aspects of the school and clearly, that has nothing to do with charter issues. The company doing the vetting is one of three used by the GMC for this process, so I am concluding (worth repeating...I am concluding) that the charter aspect of the investigation is resolved and the school is being vetted for other purposes. In thinking about it, if the UK can substantiate SC, it gains another medical school without undue cost. (There is a lot of clamor in the UK for more med schools, just as in the US). By substantiating the school it can approve loans for students to attend. It may also reach formal or informal agreement with the SC for periodoic oversight. I think that any chance of the school receiving any other type of endorsement is unrealistic.

Now, all that being said, I am still waiting on the final word from the GMC, as is everyone else. The GMC may find the school is a legal entity, but substandard in its academics--or it may conclude it's a fine school. We all have to wait for that decision. But I think we're seeing concrete evidence that the initial concern about the school is over.

Smythe
02-16-2006, 01:10 PM
oh what a difference a few years makes.....

:bla: -------> http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/948-who-listing-certification.html

maximillian genossa
02-16-2006, 01:20 PM
The original copy from the email I got from the ECFMG is pretty clear. If they visited or not, I have no idea, but that is what they say, that is what we will have to wait for. Frankly I do not see any crisis here UNLESS Senegal back off.




I've been up all night too soooo I don't get this? Ofcourse the Senegalese government will back them up right? Didn't they visit the college?

stephew
02-16-2006, 02:02 PM
oh what a difference a few years makes.....

:bla: -------> http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/948-who-listing-certification.html
Voted for Most Impressive Effort to Make Angry Point With Post

Smythe
02-16-2006, 03:01 PM
.....and I would have won too but you just beat me out by a nose

this was even better but I didn't want to bring it up http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/3688-can-somebody-answer-my-questions-important-st-chris-info.html

PS: before you launch on your usual "stay on topic: rant, this topic is very germane to the current discussion of how the stories continue to .........shall we say.......evolve.

Any wonder why authorities are investigating?


BTS care to explain your statement about the school having a charter since 1997?

jpryor
02-16-2006, 03:39 PM
Read page 3, the last post on the link you posted, Smythe. It answers your own question.

CorporateRaider
02-16-2006, 04:23 PM
I agree with you GMAX.

What I am not able to comprehend is, why, at this stage is there any doubt in the ECFMG's (W.H.O.?) mind, as to, does the Government of Senegal, recognize St. Christopher's College of Medicine? I know (think) hands down a resounding YES the government of Senegal does recognize it will be obtained, so in my mind the ECFMG has sinned via . "over precaution."

I think it creates tension in the minds and souls of students, over something as simple as a "letter", it does not make sense for the ECFMG to exhibit such poor judgement. In fact, I would bet a bottle of good table wine that "everyone" knows the Luton Campus is recognized.
















The original copy from the email I got from the ECFMG is pretty clear. If they visited or not, I have no idea, but that is what they say, that is what we will have to wait for. Frankly I do not see any crisis here UNLESS Senegal back off.

teratos
02-16-2006, 04:40 PM
I agree with you GMAX.

What I am not able to comprehend is, why, at this stage is there any doubt in the ECFMG's (W.H.O.?) mind, as to, does the Government of Senegal, recognize St. Christopher's College of Medicine? I know (think) hands down a resounding YES the government of Senegal does recognize it will be obtained, so in my mind the ECFMG has sinned via . "over precaution."

I think it creates tension in the minds and souls of students, over something as simple as a "letter", it does not make sense for the ECFMG to exhibit such poor judgement. In fact, I would bet a bottle of good table wine that "everyone" knows the Luton Campus is recognized.

Unless, of course, that isn't all there is. Again, we are speculating about things we shouldn't be. Let's see what happens. G

empathy
02-16-2006, 06:04 PM
You guys spent 3 hours drinking beer with ***and you never asked where he went to medical school? You are just a medical student. He graduated from Grace and pours through medical journals all the time...of course he has more medical knowledge than you guys but as the years go by and you learn more you'll look back and say, "What an idiot I was **************". I know the story he tells how he 'let his medical license expire because he doesn't need it working for the college'. Learn more about having a medical license in the US and you'll realize that he should still show up in your searches.

maximillian genossa
02-16-2006, 06:58 PM
Those are not new news for me empathy, same story with a few Spartan grads who went out to open schools elsewhere during the late 1999 early 2000 "medical school gold rush" as I call it. But we are not allowed to discuss that particular person in these forums. Too bad.

As for the rest of your assumptions, at least in my case you assumed WRONG.

Have a good one.




You guys spent 3 hours drinking beer with Mr. L. and you never asked where he went to medical school? You are just a medical student. He graduated from Grace...of course he has more medical knowledge than you guys but as the years go by and you learn more you'll look back and say, "What an idiot I was for believing that he was a doctor". I know the story he tales how he 'let his medical license expire because he doesn't need it working for the college'. Learn more about having a medical license in the US and you'll realize that he should still show up in your searches.

CorporateRaider
02-17-2006, 06:16 AM
George:

Good, you are able to read between the lines, a good physician and the DNA for becoming a future attorney.

The grapevine says that sure enough , "P. Lay-o-knee" (alleged owner of St Chris) is able to march in, each time there is an event, representatives of the government of Senegal, yet when official agencies send requests in writing, no one ever responds.

The case of St Chris is unique, not many, if any governments would "accredit" a local school in a foreign land, usually most (all?) MOE's only cover schools on their soil.

My vote is that Senegal confirms in writing that they recognize St Chris. I will also speculate why they will:

It's a treasure to have a successful institution of Higher Learing under ones hat.








Unless, of course, that isn't all there is. Again, we are speculating about things we shouldn't be. Let's see what happens. G

teratos
02-17-2006, 07:27 AM
George:

Good, you are able to read between the lines, a good physician and the DNA for becoming a future attorney.

The grapevine says that sure enough , "P. Lay-o-knee" (alleged owner of St Chris) is able to march in, each time there is an event, representatives of the government of Senegal, yet when official agencies send requests in writing, no one ever responds.

The case of St Chris is unique, not many, if any governments would "accredit" a local school in a foreign land, usually most (all?) MOE's only cover schools on their soil.

My vote is that Senegal confirms in writing that they recognize St Chris. I will also speculate why they will:

It's a treasure to have a successful institution of Higher Learing under ones hat.

Even if Senegal steps up to the plate, and I think they will as well, will that be the end of it? You bring up the idea of a country being able to "accredit" a school in another sovereign land. I think that is another issue entirely. Even if Senegal sends 2 gold plated stone tablets to the appropriate agencies, will that suffice? What kind of oversite can there be from afar? That has always been my concern. While I know there is little or no oversite for most of the Caribbean schools, the schools generally function where they are chartered.

jpryor
02-17-2006, 08:06 AM
If you consider all that's involved in an oversight function I think you will also conclude that it can be done from the next room, down the hall, across the street or half way around the world.

The National Education Association has a primer on accreditation in which it provides an overview of the why's and how to's. After the initial on-site assessment, most follow-ups involve the submission of documents related to student performance, instructor credentials, additional resources, changes to curriculums, etc. These 'desk reviews' are usually perfunctory, but it is not unusual for there to be correspondence for clarification. It is rare for there to be another on-site review until the regularly scheduled review established at the time of accreditation. These scheduled site reviews can be annually to once a decade, depending on the institution's strength.

In speaking to a representative from the Southern Association of Colleges and schools a few weeks ago, I was told that FSU's new medical school had an initial site visit and then three more site visits within a year and is not scheduled for another until completion of its library. Then it will go another decade before another on-site but it will be reviewed annually (and the Commission is just a six hour drive from the campus).

While the situation with SC is unique, odds are it won't remain the only school located outside of its host country. I bet we see a replication of this model soon. The FSMB has already indicated its acceptance of this model, so I'm sure some entrepreneurs see that as a green light.

PathOne
02-17-2006, 08:59 AM
Interesting, that most posters believe that the charter confirmation from Senegal is such a non-event... If that is the case, I wonder why the GMC is taking so long with their investigation?

One question springs to mind: Has Senegal officially confirmed the charter in writing, say in a press release? The only thing I have seen is that the Ambassador went to Luton way back in Dec.
Senegal, after all, isn't exactly the most organized of countries. But if there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the charter, why couldn't they just send out a press release saying everything is OK and the letters are in the mail???

Personally, I think the combination of:
1) One of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Africa
2) The charter for a school located in another sovereign country
3) The vast difference between training (UK-based English-speaking US-curriculum vs. French-based curriculum and language).
4) That I've never seen when St. Chris changed to another univ affiliation (which they must have, since they claim to have a charter since 2000, yet now claim that they're affiliated with a univ established in 2003).

All in all makes for a extremely cloudy situation. Even IUHS and Spartan can at least claim that there's no charter issues with their schools....

teratos
02-17-2006, 09:18 AM
If you consider all that's involved in an oversight function I think you will also conclude that it can be done from the next room, down the hall, across the street or half way around the world.

The National Education Association has a primer on accreditation in which it provides an overview of the why's and how to's. After the initial on-site assessment, most follow-ups involve the submission of documents related to student performance, instructor credentials, additional resources, changes to curriculums, etc. These 'desk reviews' are usually perfunctory, but it is not unusual for there to be correspondence for clarification. It is rare for there to be another on-site review until the regularly scheduled review established at the time of accreditation. These scheduled site reviews can be annually to once a decade, depending on the institution's strength.

In speaking to a representative from the Southern Association of Colleges and schools a few weeks ago, I was told that FSU's new medical school had an initial site visit and then three more site visits within a year and is not scheduled for another until completion of its library. Then it will go another decade before another on-site but it will be reviewed annually (and the Commission is just a six hour drive from the campus).

While the situation with SC is unique, odds are it won't remain the only school located outside of its host country. I bet we see a replication of this model soon. The FSMB has already indicated its acceptance of this model, so I'm sure some entrepreneurs see that as a green light.

While I agree with what you say, it could still be an issue. G

jpryor
02-17-2006, 09:20 AM
One question springs to mind: Has Senegal officially confirmed the charter in writing, say in a press release? The only thing I have seen is that the Ambassador went to Luton way back in Dec.

Evidently you just ignored all of the discussions regarding the IMED update and the ECFMG letter, huh? Let's make it simple: IMED=official, Press Release=not official.

jpryor
02-17-2006, 09:21 AM
While I agree with what you say, it could still be an issue. G

I don't disagree with that at all. I'm sure that some states have already decided that it isn't an acceptable model for them and probably for very good reasons.

maximillian genossa
02-17-2006, 09:27 AM
"Even IUHS and Spartan can at least claim that there's no charter issues with their schools...."

That has never been an issue with them but rather their poor academic program.







Interesting, that most posters believe that the charter confirmation from Senegal is such a non-event... If that is the case, I wonder why the GMC is taking so long with their investigation?

One question springs to mind: Has Senegal officially confirmed the charter in writing, say in a press release? The only thing I have seen is that the Ambassador went to Luton way back in Dec.
Senegal, after all, isn't exactly the most organized of countries. But if there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the charter, why couldn't they just send out a press release saying everything is OK and the letters are in the mail???

Personally, I think the combination of:
1) One of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Africa
2) The charter for a school located in another sovereign country
3) The vast difference between training (UK-based English-speaking US-curriculum vs. French-based curriculum and language).
4) That I've never seen when St. Chris changed to another univ affiliation (which they must have, since they claim to have a charter since 2000, yet now claim that they're affiliated with a univ established in 2003).

All in all makes for a extremely cloudy situation. Even IUHS and Spartan can at least claim that there's no charter issues with their schools....

PathOne
02-17-2006, 01:27 PM
Evidently you just ignored all of the discussions regarding the IMED update and the ECFMG letter, huh? Let's make it simple: IMED=official, Press Release=not official.

No reason to be rude. Has Senegal officially confirmed that it has chartered St. Chris or has it not? That should be a pretty straight forward thing to do....

Oh, and by the way: It currently really doesn't matter if IMED includes St. Chris, as long as ECFMG has suspended the acceptance of applications from St. Chris graduates.

maximillian genossa
02-17-2006, 02:28 PM
I posted a copy of the email I received from B.K. at the ECFMG and basically answers your question. Read post # 8 on this same thread. Self explanatory.







No reason to be rude. Has Senegal officially confirmed that it has chartered St. Chris or has it not? That should be a pretty straight forward thing to do....

Oh, and by the way: It currently really doesn't matter if IMED includes St. Chris, as long as ECFMG has suspended the acceptance of applications from St. Chris graduates.

empathy
02-17-2006, 02:54 PM
.....the US and England are giving Senegal a chance to gracefully bow out of this before they go in and clean house.

blythplace
02-17-2006, 05:00 PM
.....the US and England are giving Senegal a chance to gracefully bow out of this before they go in and clean house.

Another gold nugget to add to the growing collection..

ol' man
02-17-2006, 05:24 PM
They are waiting for SC to take over Harvard, and are going to list them as equals and allow SC to bypass all regulations.

Seems like some people are circling like vultures, waiting for the carcass to fall. They may be disappointed if it doesn't.

CorporateRaider
02-17-2006, 05:24 PM
Interesting observation.


.....the US and England are giving Senegal a chance to gracefully bow out of this before they go in and clean house.

PathOne
02-17-2006, 05:33 PM
I just received this from the ECFMG and I hope it put to rest any speculation:


"At the present time, ECFMG is not registering students and graduates of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine, Senegal, for the USMLE. This is because ECFMG requires clarification of the status of the medical school’s program in the United Kingdom with respect to the school’s recognition by the government of Senegal.

One of the requirements for a medical school student or graduate to be eligible to apply to ECFMG is that the student or graduate’s medical school must be listed in the International Medical Education Directory (IMED) maintained by the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research (FAIMER®). A detailed description of all ECFMG requirements is contained in the ECFMG Information Booklet. The link is http://www.ecfmg.org/2006ib/contents.html (http://www.ecfmg.org/2006ib/contents.html)

St. Christopher’s College of Medicine, Senegal, is listed in the International Medical Education Directory (IMED) based, in part, on its recognition by the government of Senegal. ECFMG has no documentation, however, that the Senegalese government’s recognition of the medical school includes the program in the United Kingdom.

FAIMER has written to the government of Senegal to ascertain whether the government of Senegal’s recognition of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine includes the program in the United Kingdom. When a reply is received, ECFMG will advise St. Christopher’s College of Medicine and students and graduates who have pending applications at ECFMG."



Yes, I have read your email - and thank you for posting it. However, as far as I can tell, the ECFMG is concerned about the same thing as the GMC - namely about the specific status of St. Chris in Luton vis a vis a charter in Senegal.

Now, the GMC inquiry has been ongoing since Dec., and is still unresolved. In addition, the ECFMG has now also slapped a suspension on St. Chris graduates. When the GMC initiated it's suspension, many posters on this board claimed that it was a bureaucratic hassle which would quickly be resolved. Some two months hence is the matter still, however, entirely unresolved. In addition, the ECFMG has now stepped unto the scene - so the probably more than 90% of St. Chris students who plan to work in the US or UK are CURRENTLY unable to apply for licensure.

If the matter can be resolved quickly, then all will be well of course. But let me just gently remind you that the GMC investigation has yet to be completed. I see no evidence as to what will happen with the ECFMG investigation, and what time frame will be involved. However, I do know that it's not common for the ECFMG to suspend ALL applicants from specific schools. To blow this off as a bureaucratic technicality is, I think, somewhat callous. But of course St. Chris students shall be most welcome to deal with this any way they want.

Still, I find it utterly amazing that the management and owners of St. Chris have been unable to avert a suspension of their graduates by licensing authorities in both the UK and US. That is negligence beyond comparison.

teratos
02-17-2006, 06:16 PM
Still, I find it utterly amazing that the management and owners of St. Chris have been unable to avert a suspension of their graduates by licensing authorities in both the UK and US. That is negligence beyond comparison.

It may not be something that the admin of SC CAN avoid. In setting up the school so far from the country of charter, they took a big risk. Should the school come through this OK, that risk should have a big payoff. SC, I would expect, will be a school a lot of people want to go to. The location is fantastic. G

azskeptic
02-17-2006, 06:20 PM
It may not be something that the admin of SC CAN avoid. In setting up the school so far from the country of charter, they took a big risk. Should the school come through this OK, that risk should have a big payoff. SC, I would expect, will be a school a lot of people want to go to. The location is fantastic. G What will students do if he can't right the charter issue and is forced to get a new charter, lets say in the Carib. like Aruba or Antigua (places where you can buy one)

teratos
02-17-2006, 06:22 PM
What will students do if he can't right the charter issue and is forced to get a new charter, lets say in the Carib. like Aruba or Antigua (places where you can buy one)

Take a 5 semester basic sciences review course, I guess. I hope it works out for the students' sake. G

Scott1981
02-17-2006, 06:27 PM
what amazes me is that the stchris.edu website still lists like everything is honky dory with the ecfmg on the liscensure tab.

CorporateRaider
02-17-2006, 07:24 PM
It would not be prudent to "show your cards" to the world.

So I doubt any changes would be made to a website to reflect any crisis.




what amazes me is that the stchris.edu website still lists like everything is honky dory with the ecfmg on the liscensure tab.

empathy
02-17-2006, 07:29 PM
The problem facing those of us in the United States who are trying to keep bad foreign credentials out is that we can no longer simply rely on a government’s imprimatur as an indicator of legitimacy. When the government of Malawi is willing to "accredit" a notorious U.S. diploma mill, or Senegal signs off on a medical school that consists of a clinic built next to a doctor’s office, or some Caribbean governments allow all sorts of "schools" to operate on their islands—where do we turn for a thumb large enough to jam into this hole in the academic dike?



http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/News29/text005.htm


:marines:

CorporateRaider
02-17-2006, 07:45 PM
Dean:

U-meannie. Look, your proposal is stuff of fantasy! Why would you propose on this august forum to "re-invent the diaper"?

Very simple my dear watson, why in the hell would "lay-o-knee and co.", obtain another charter? They have one (or the use of one) from Senegal !!!!! (Did you forget?)

BTS and Company have made it clear that all is well in Luton via Dakar, so why would StChrisAdmin look for another charter, when the one they have is just fine?

If Adminstchris obtained another charter, then they would be tacitly admitting there was trouble in Dodge.






What will students do if he can't right the charter issue and is forced to get a new charter, lets say in the Carib. like Aruba or Antigua (places where you can buy one)

pruritis_ani
02-17-2006, 08:10 PM
I have a question...how does this affect students in the match??? I am guessing that ECFMG is not planning to award certification in the immediate future. I would imagine that the students in the match right now are pooping bricks.

teratos
02-17-2006, 08:15 PM
I have a question...how does this affect students in the match??? I am guessing that ECFMG is not planning to award certification in the immediate future. I would imagine that the students in the match right now are pooping bricks.

Without ECFMG certification, they will not be able to get residencies. I'm sure there are plenty of bricks at the moment. We will have to wait and hope this is resolved quickly. G

pruritis_ani
02-17-2006, 08:26 PM
Without ECFMG certification, they will not be able to get residencies. I'm sure there are plenty of bricks at the moment. We will have to wait and hope this is resolved quickly. G

I am wondering if the ECFMG is validating these people with the NRMP, and if they are even allowed to go through the match. It seems kind of tough...either you let them go through the match, with the understanding that they are not currently, and may never be eligible for ECMFG certification, and the students are screwed out of a year at least, or you let them go through, and stick the programs with the risk of filling a spot with a candidate that may not be able to get certified.

I would bet the ECFMG would screw the students before putting the programs at risk...anybody know for sure what the status is?

teratos
02-17-2006, 08:30 PM
I am wondering if the ECFMG is validating these people with the NRMP, and if they are even allowed to go through the match. It seems kind of tough...either you let them go through the match, with the understanding that they are not currently, and may never be eligible for ECMFG certification, and the students are screwed out of a year at least, or you let them go through, and stick the programs with the risk of filling a spot with a candidate that may not be able to get certified.

I would bet the ECFMG would screw the students before putting the programs at risk...anybody know for sure what the status is?

Without the potential for ECFMG certification, I would guess that they will be withdrawn from the match. The question will be if the NRMP is made aware of the situation. If they are able to go through the match, and then can't get an ECFMG certificate, they can't do the residency. Then the program will be pissed because they have to find people in a hurry to fill those spots, since residency models are built around the number of spots. Interns are particularly important in the model. You won't even set foot in the door for orientation without the ECFMG certificate. That will be what happens if the ECFMG doesn't give SC approval.

pruritis_ani
02-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Without the potential for ECFMG certification, I would guess that they will be withdrawn from the match. The question will be if the NRMP is made aware of the situation. If they are able to go through the match, and then can't get an ECFMG certificate, they can't do the residency. Then the program will be pissed because they have to find people in a hurry to fill those spots, since residency models are built around the number of spots. Interns are particularly important in the model. You won't even set foot in the door for orientation without the ECFMG certificate. That will be what happens if the ECFMG doesn't give SC approval.

Well, the ECMFG has to certify all IMG's to the NRMP before ROL day, that says you have completed exams. I bet there may be some issues with that, in that the ECFMG won't certify the SC folks for the match...I wonder if this is really the case! That would be brutal.

Any SC folks going through the match have any real information on this? ROL deadline is next week, so if they do not certify, it looks very rough for those in this years match. I would doubt that everything can be sorted out by next week.

teratos
02-17-2006, 08:38 PM
Well, the ECMFG has to certify all IMG's to the NRMP before ROL day, that says you have completed exams. I bet there may be some issues with that, in that the ECFMG won't certify the SC folks for the match...I wonder if this is really the case! That would be brutal.

Any SC folks going through the match have any real information on this? ROL deadline is next week, so if they do not certify, it looks very rough for those in this years match. I would doubt that everything can be sorted out by next week.

If there is no resolution by that time, it is going to be a brutal year your those involved in the match. Keep your fingers crossed for them. G

CorporateRaider
02-17-2006, 08:42 PM
Love your user name. What great table conversation it makes.

:D



I have a question...how does this affect students in the match??? I am guessing that ECFMG is not planning to award certification in the immediate future. I would imagine that the students in the match right now are pooping bricks.

PathOne
02-17-2006, 09:54 PM
Love your user name. What great table conversation it makes.

:D

Nothing like having an itch you can't scratch... at least in public... if you're trying to be polite :)

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 10:37 AM
Dean:

U-meannie. Look, your proposal is stuff of fantasy! Why would you propose on this august forum to "re-invent the diaper"?

Very simple my dear watson, why in the hell would "lay-o-knee and co.", obtain another charter? They have one (or the use of one) from Senegal !!!!! (Did you forget?)

BTS and Company have made it clear that all is well in Luton via Dakar, so why would StChrisAdmin look for another charter, when the one they have is just fine?

If Adminstchris obtained another charter, then they would be tacitly admitting there was trouble in Dodge. Something has to happen because the students waiting for resolution will get restless is my guess. FIrst UK and now the US.......but if BTS is correct it will be resolved in the future...if it is like the UK it could be 100+ days from now or even longer (we don't know when the GMC thing will be resolved). Those of us on the outside don't even know what the issues are but BTS seems to have inside information so students are being patient on his advice.

microphage
02-18-2006, 11:20 AM
"Still skeptical after all these years."

"Still useless after all these years... "


I've got more periods than u.....

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 11:26 AM
"Still skeptical after all these years."

"Still useless after all these years... "


I've got more periods than u..... I just can't compete in general. I am forced to accept defeat...ha ha.......lllllllll

maximillian genossa
02-18-2006, 11:40 AM
..."Still, I find it utterly amazing that the management and owners of St. Chris have been unable to avert a suspension of their graduates by licensing authorities in both the UK and US. That is negligence beyond comparison"

ABSOLUTELY. It is negligence and unethical, not to mention irresponsible.
This will take time, I got a generic email from the GMC basically repeating what they have in their website. They operate in G-d's time.




Yes, I have read your email - and thank you for posting it. However, as far as I can tell, the ECFMG is concerned about the same thing as the GMC - namely about the specific status of St. Chris in Luton vis a vis a charter in Senegal.

Now, the GMC inquiry has been ongoing since Dec., and is still unresolved. In addition, the ECFMG has now also slapped a suspension on St. Chris graduates. When the GMC initiated it's suspension, many posters on this board claimed that it was a bureaucratic hassle which would quickly be resolved. Some two months hence is the matter still, however, entirely unresolved. In addition, the ECFMG has now stepped unto the scene - so the probably more than 90% of St. Chris students who plan to work in the US or UK are CURRENTLY unable to apply for licensure.

If the matter can be resolved quickly, then all will be well of course. But let me just gently remind you that the GMC investigation has yet to be completed. I see no evidence as to what will happen with the ECFMG investigation, and what time frame will be involved. However, I do know that it's not common for the ECFMG to suspend ALL applicants from specific schools. To blow this off as a bureaucratic technicality is, I think, somewhat callous. But of course St. Chris students shall be most welcome to deal with this any way they want.

Still, I find it utterly amazing that the management and owners of St. Chris have been unable to avert a suspension of their graduates by licensing authorities in both the UK and US. That is negligence beyond comparison.

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 11:55 AM
They are pretty careful about what they do.

BTS appears to have information that it will be fixed in next 2 weeks or so, so we should be patient and not make too much of it all if that is the case. Hopefully for the 800 students-1000 students, it will be resolved faster than the GMC has so far with the same information available,eh?


..."Still, I find it utterly amazing that the management and owners of St. Chris have been unable to avert a suspension of their graduates by licensing authorities in both the UK and US. That is negligence beyond comparison"

ABSOLUTELY. It is negligence and unethical, not to mention irresponsible.
This will take time, I got a generic email from the GMC basically repeating what they have in their website. They operate in G-d's time.

maximillian genossa
02-18-2006, 11:57 AM
but I would not bet on two weeks or any timeframe.





They are pretty careful about what they do.

BTS appears to have information that it will be fixed in next 2 weeks or so, so we should be patient and not make too much of it all if that is the case. Hopefully for the 800 students-1000 students, it will be resolved faster than the GMC has so far with the same information available,eh?

Smythe
02-18-2006, 11:59 AM
Something has to happen because the students waiting for resolution will get restless is my guess. FIrst UK and now the US.......but if BTS is correct it will be resolved in the future...if it is like the UK it could be 100+ days from now or even longer (we don't know when the GMC thing will be resolved). Those of us on the outside don't even know what the issues are but BTS seems to have inside information so students are being patient on his advice.

wise indeed for he seems to know the real deal!


BTS4202 wrote on 10/20/2005 re: new BBC news story on SC

cool, a followup story from their first one a couple years ago. I look forward to seeing it.

BTS4202 wrote on 11/19/2005

I guess we will all see what happens in the next few weeks (hopefully sooner).


BTS4202 wrote on 12/26/2005


This documentation, while very important, is not very complicated and should be available to the GMC as soon as they return from the holiday break in the beggining of january. More updates are expected by mid January


-------------------------------- believe him!

BTS4202 wrote on 7/11/2003


many cool advancements going on in Senegal including a $40 million grant plus land to build a large state of the art medical school and hospital in senegal.

Looking forward to seeing that place. Until then I guess I'll have to enjoy these fine fellows getting together to celebrate their new satellite campus

http://www.uein.sn/uein/francais/photos/images/photos_04.gif

maximillian genossa
02-18-2006, 12:03 PM
You have a good chronology on bts's postings.

By the way, is that Avatar of yours the clown from the movie IT? (Penywise)



wise indeed for he seems to know the real deal!


BTS4202 wrote on 10/20/2005 re: new BBC news story on SC


BTS4202 wrote on 11/19/2005



BTS4202 wrote on 12/26/2005


-------------------------------- believe him!

BTS4202 wrote on 7/11/2003

Looking forward to seeing that place. Until then I guess I'll have to enjoy these fine fellows getting together to celebrate their new satellite campus

http://www.uein.sn/uein/francais/photos/images/photos_04.gif

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 12:18 PM
Looking forward to seeing that place. Until then I guess I'll have to enjoy these fine fellows getting together to celebrate their new satellite campus

http://www.uein.sn/uein/francais/photos/images/photos_04.gif


Those 'fine fellows' are President Abdoulaye Wade and his staff. Good luck trying to disprove a charter that has the backing of the most powerful man in the country.

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 12:46 PM
Those 'fine fellows' are President Abdoulaye Wade and his staff. Good luck trying to disprove a charter that has the backing of the most powerful man in the country. Nobody is disputing the 2003 charter of that school but it isn't the one issuing diplomas,eh? St. Christopher College issues diplomas; not the affiliate university which was being feted with the men in robes in the picture.

Smythe
02-18-2006, 01:03 PM
Nobody is disputing the 2003 charter of that school but it isn't the one issuing diplomas,eh? St. Christopher College issues diplomas; not the affiliate university which was being feted with the men in robes in the picture.

Interesting that these very pictures may pose a problem, as the date of the unveiling of the Iba mar diop Medical school is right there.
It appears to be June ( or July ) 17th 2003.

Who was the parent campus before then, and can we see the pics of that ribbon cutting ceremony? It's important to know which school was the actual parent because otherwise the school was operating outside the country of charter not as a satellite but just as some sort of free-standing school
Isn't this the whole crux of the investigation?
No matter how many guys in robes and Shriner's hats you trot out, last time I checked ECFMG isn't for sale like so many Alderman

So.............Which came first , the moon or the earth ( or in this case the satellite or its parent?)

It appears for all those having to submit their rank order lists next week, ECFMG does not seem to be all to impressed at this very moment as you seemed to be prohibited from registering with them. That's a bummer considering match day is approaching.

tick tock............tick tock


Take heart though poor students in Limbo.................there are always jobs teaching at off-shore medical schools!
I believe with the supposed 40 million dollar grant to Senegal, the new state of the art medical facilities promised by BTS in 2003 will be yearning to have fine FMG's on faculty! Parlez-vous Français?

empathy
02-18-2006, 01:04 PM
You are very courageous and honest about your opinions and feelings -- I like that. What happened to the days when men were men and they stood up for what was right. It's like the majority of people have been bought and now stand for nothing.

BTS represented himself in emails sent to me as a girl named D. I guess D. could be considered a unisex name.


wise indeed for he seems to know the real deal!


BTS4202 wrote on 10/20/2005 re: new BBC news story on SC


BTS4202 wrote on 11/19/2005



BTS4202 wrote on 12/26/2005


-------------------------------- believe him!

BTS4202 wrote on 7/11/2003

Looking forward to seeing that place. Until then I guess I'll have to enjoy these fine fellows getting together to celebrate their new satellite campus

http://www.uein.sn/uein/francais/photos/images/photos_04.gif

adenymedic
02-18-2006, 01:05 PM
It is sad to see with all these going on, some are still adamant about defending the admin. and killing the messenger here on this forum. I have alot of friends in this school that are about to take their step 1 or 2 and it will be really sad to see them wait a long time before this issue gets resolved. I hope for their sake, it does not take as long as the GMC is taking at the moment. The real students are the ones lost in the mix here. It is hard studying for these exams and now to put more pressure by not being able to take it when you want, is absolutely ridiculous. I hope the people in charge that could have taken care of this a long time ago are able to look themselves in the mirror. The students lose either way, this is bad publicity regardless of how it turns out.
I hope this gets resolved tomorrow, fingers crossed and it is not one of those St Chris' "we got it fixed" kind of deal.

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 01:05 PM
I beg to differ. While the degrees do not have the name of the university on them, If you've ever seen a St. Christopher diploma it is the exact same diploma that the president holds in his hand in those pictures. They are the same degrees awarded to those who attend the Senegal Campus. If you look at another picture and read the corner stone you will see that it says St. Christopher's college of medicine of the university of Elhadji ibrahima naisse. For example if you go to Northwestern University's med school, the degrees do not say northwestern but name the medical college (Feinberg School of Medicine). There are other schools that are part of the U of E.I.N including an agriculture school and pharmacy school each issuing degrees with the school name, not the University.

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 01:16 PM
I beg to differ. While the degrees do not have the name of the university on them, If you've ever seen a St. Christopher diploma it is the exact same diploma that the president holds in his hand in those pictures. They are the same degrees awarded to those who attend the Senegal Campus. If you look at another picture and read the corner stone you will see that it says St. Christopher's college of medicine of the university of Elhadji ibrahima naisse. For example if you go to Northwestern University's med school, the degrees do not say northwestern but name the medical college (Feinberg School of Medicine). There are other schools that are part of the U of E.I.N including an agriculture school and pharmacy school each issuing degrees with the school name, not the University. well, you could also wonder if St. Chris is affiliated or part of the University of Elhadju Ibrahima Naisse? We'll know the answer to these questions I am sure in the next 6 months. It is indeed complex and hard to keep up with.

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 01:25 PM
Another thing is that i dont get this whole 2003 discussion. Saint Christopher Iba Mar Diop started as a private medical college with endorsement from the government in late 1999 without a University affiliation. There is nothing anywhere that states a University affiliation is required. In 2003 the med school became a part of the university in order to strengthen it financially and academically. The University affiliation has no bearing on anything other than the business side of maintaining the school. I can tell you that the ECFMG issue has nothing to do with the 'University' affiliation and is a routine review of paperwork that all offshore schools go thru at some point in their existence.

adenymedic
02-18-2006, 01:27 PM
i hope it does not take that long...really. BTW, the diploma just says ST chris on it without the university of Ibrahim stuff on it, unless it was just changed recently. and noone attends the Senegal campus.

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 01:35 PM
Another thing is that i dont get this whole 2003 discussion. Saint Christopher Iba Mar Diop started as a private medical college with endorsement from the government in late 1999 without a University affiliation. There is nothing anywhere that states a University affiliation is required. In 2003 the med school became a part of the university in order to strengthen it financially and academically. The University affiliation has no bearing on anything other than the business side of maintaining the school. I can tell you that the ECFMG issue has nothing to do with the 'University' affiliation and is a routine review of paperwork that all offshore schools go thru at some point in their existence. Other than St. Luke and Grace (and we know what happened to them) show me another school that had its ECFMG delayed or suspended?

CorporateRaider
02-18-2006, 01:39 PM
All Colleges that are affiliated with a University would have the wording on the diploma.


i hope it does not take that long...really. BTW, the diploma just says ST chris on it without the university of Ibrahim stuff on it, unless it was just changed recently. and noone attends the Senegal campus.

adenymedic
02-18-2006, 01:46 PM
So this must be new on the diploma cos the school was affiliated with university of Luton as well as Kings and it never had their name on the St Chris diploma. Just a thought.

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 01:49 PM
The idea that noone attends the senegal campus or that the campus there is some kind of empty building is a big misconception. While i've never been to senegal, the campus manages to put forth a few students that attend graduation every year. I have no idea whether those students go on to work over there or enter residency here... all that info is kept pretty confidential.

CorporateRaider
02-18-2006, 01:52 PM
With the economical might that St. Christopher's has, it's past time they break affiliation with the Senegal University and obtain their own Senegal Charter to avoid further complication.

Smythe
02-18-2006, 01:54 PM
So this must be new on the diploma cos the school was affiliated with university of Luton as well as Kings and it never had their name on the St Chris diploma. Just a thought.

last time I checked , renting out lab space and getting to use a library doesn't quite meet the standards for includion on a diploma.

I love the spin here!!!

"Affiliated with Kings"

****!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 02:09 PM
Other than St. Luke and Grace (and we know what happened to them) show me another school that had its ECFMG delayed or suspended?

I do not have access to this information. But i know for a fact that a number of carib schools have gone thru this same problem and are functioning normally now. As for Grace. It was never a real school. If you've ever walked down Mill St. in cambridge you will see that the building is still there.. its a 2 story house with a sign in front of it. The students probably never even left their bedrooms. There is a big difference between a fraud school and a real school clarifying words used in its documents.

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 02:19 PM
About king's and Luton. Though it goes beyond renting space (using their faculty, equipment and cadavers), the affiliation could never happen officially without being a UK school.

Smythe
02-18-2006, 02:27 PM
About king's and Luton. Though it goes beyond renting space (using their faculty, equipment and cadavers), the affiliation could never happen officially without being a UK school.

I stand corrected about my comment re: renting space.

Let me amend my statement to include the renting of faculty, the renting of equipment the renting of Karaoke machines ( http://www.valuemd.com/files/karaoke.jpg) and the renting of cadavers

:yelling:

empathy
02-18-2006, 02:40 PM
What's the picture of the karaoke machine for???? Is that from their student lounge? 5 warnings - Awesome! No one is going to mistake you for a pansy.


I stand corrected about my comment re: renting space.

Let me amend my statement to include the renting of faculty, the renting of equipment the renting of Karaoke machines ( http://www.valuemd.com/files/karaoke.jpg) and the renting of cadavers

:yelling:

AUCMD2006
02-18-2006, 03:00 PM
The idea that noone attends the senegal campus or that the campus there is some kind of empty building is a big misconception. While i've never been to senegal, the campus manages to put forth a few students that attend graduation every year. I have no idea whether those students go on to work over there or enter residency here... all that info is kept pretty confidential.


its convenient for SC that most of the information that would lend more credibility to it as a school is kept highly confidential. it started with the faculty, now its the clinical sites and any info about the senegal campus...why wouldn't they want to show that there actually is a campus that graduates medical doctors in senegal? so far we have a report from a govt agency stating that it is a closet and a phone, no one knows anything about it when they try and find it, vs all the luton students who swear they went to the wrong building, which was probably the case, and that it is really there and functioning and graduating people but its kept highly confidential so nno one can verify wether there are actually any graduates....just conincidence or are you guys being fed a heaping bowl of steaming ** from admin again?

so far neither side has proven anything which is why it has gotten to the point of the school's students not being allowed to do anything until the mess that your admin is totally responsible for gets sorted out. sometimes there is a reason for being secretive and sometimes there isn't...hopefullly the investigation will finally straihgten out the mess ******* and the luton syndicate has so ineptly created for you all because if the documentation is there and it is all legit there is NO reason you guys should be going through this...

so you still defend *******, MD? [the question mark serves a dual purpose as both the end of the sentence marking a question and calling into question the initials 'MD' after *******.] creative isn;t it?

Smythe
02-18-2006, 03:05 PM
its convenient for SC that most of the information that would lend more credibility to it as a school is kept highly confidential. it started with the faculty, now its the clinical sites and any info about the senegal campus...why wouldn't they want to show that there actually is a campus that graduates medical doctors in senegal? so far we have a report from a govt agency stating that it is a closet and a phone, no one knows anything about it when they try and find it, vs all the luton students who swear they went to the wrong building, which was probably the case, and that it is really there and functioning and graduating people but its kept highly confidential so nno one can verify wether there are actually any graduates....just conincidence or are you guys being fed a heaping bowl of steaming ** from admin again?

so far neither side has proven anything which is why it has gotten to the point of the school's students not being allowed to do anything until the mess that your admin is totally responsible for gets sorted out. sometimes there is a reason for being secretive and sometimes there isn't...hopefullly the investigation will finally straihgten out the mess ******* and the luton syndicate has so ineptly created for you all because if the documentation is there and it is all legit there is NO reason you guys should be going through this...

so you still defend *******, MD? [the question mark serves a dual purpose as both the end of the sentence marking a question and calling into question the initials 'MD' after *******.] creative isn;t it?

Sorry , but the ******* reference just sort of reminds me this scene
Kind of appropriate, given the current situation, no?
http://www.thecinemalaser.com/dvd_reviews/images/kinpin-dvd-image-01.jpg
http://www.saintvespaluus.com/forty-fifty.htm



We don't have a cow, we have a bull though

blythplace
02-18-2006, 04:25 PM
5 warnings - Awesome! No one is going to mistake you for a pansy.


E-pimping at it's best?

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 04:28 PM
The man you so cleverly refer to as '*******' started this medical college with the spare change in his pocket. Which is why it was more cost effective during the inital stages to rent all the aforementioned things instead of actually owning them. The karaoke machine at $20 is a much more cost effective than a $500 PA system, especially when you have to have several of them. This frugality eventually led to the purchase of 3 buildings in an expensive 1st world country. Money doesnt grow on trees, especially when you have to not only support your own endeavor but also another school in a different country and various humanitarian projects in order to keep the government of your charter happy. A job well done to '*******' keep up the good work.

azskeptic
02-18-2006, 04:29 PM
its convenient for SC that most of the information that would lend more credibility to it as a school is kept highly confidential. it started with the faculty, now its the clinical sites and any info about the senegal campus...why wouldn't they want to show that there actually is a campus that graduates medical doctors in senegal? so far we have a report from a govt agency stating that it is a closet and a phone, no one knows anything about it when they try and find it, vs all the luton students who swear they went to the wrong building, which was probably the case, and that it is really there and functioning and graduating people but its kept highly confidential so nno one can verify wether there are actually any graduates....just conincidence or are you guys being fed a heaping bowl of steaming ** from admin again?

so far neither side has proven anything which is why it has gotten to the point of the school's students not being allowed to do anything until the mess that your admin is totally responsible for gets sorted out. sometimes there is a reason for being secretive and sometimes there isn't...hopefullly the investigation will finally straihgten out the mess ******* and the luton syndicate has so ineptly created for you all because if the documentation is there and it is all legit there is NO reason you guys should be going through this...

so you still defend *******, MD? [the question mark serves a dual purpose as both the end of the sentence marking a question and calling into question the initials 'MD' after *******.] creative isn;t it? per BTS it is all going to get sorted out so we just need wait for the ruling from 2 countries plus Senegal's paticipation in all this.

empathy
02-18-2006, 05:18 PM
Spare change? I'm soooo sick of the lies and the spinning. I guess a new Mercedes was more important than an adequate library for students. You guys get a Karaoke machine while ******* adds a new edition to his rolex collection.


The man you so cleverly refer to as '*******' started this medical college with the spare change in his pocket. Which is why it was more cost effective during the inital stages to rent all the aforementioned things instead of actually owning them. The karaoke machine at $20 is a much more cost effective than a $500 PA system, especially when you have to have several of them. This frugality eventually led to the purchase of 3 buildings in an expensive 1st world country. Money doesnt grow on trees, especially when you have to not only support your own endeavor but also another school in a different country and various humanitarian projects in order to keep the government of your charter happy. A job well done to '*******' keep up the good work.

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 05:27 PM
I know a manager at McDonalds that owns a mercedes and lives in a $500,000 house..... your point is????????? Perhaps the owner of a major corporation should drive a kia and live in the projects?

Miklos
02-18-2006, 05:40 PM
IMO, the owner of a school can make as much money as the market bears, providing that he/she meets his/her customer's expectations (i.e. delivers what has been promised) and does so legally.

Considering the GMC turmoil (nevermind the ECFMG), this owner IMO may have failed on both conditions.

empathy
02-18-2006, 06:07 PM
Like I said some students are doing St. Chris more harm than good here. You should never post the things you are told out on a public forum unless you are 100% sure it is true for obvious reasons. Too many posts with false info and suddenly 'YOU' not the school is guilty of fraud. Just imagine it...you and the school get questioned...you say, "They told me to visit those sites even told me what to say" and the school says, "He didn't get that info here. We never told him to post anything on the web".

People have always tried to put a spin on things in this forum. Made the good guys look like the bad guys and vice versa. The real problem is some people want to come on here and lie in order to lure students or to give current students false hope. They'd love nothing more than to put a password on this forum so they could have their way with students. Throw in the fact that this site receives money and phone calls from the school and you have a HUGE mess. Hopefully, Oregon will add student internet sites to their 'watch list' and investigate.

PathOne
02-18-2006, 06:21 PM
While there's certainly people here with their own agendas and half-truths, that's not really the issue right now for those who has been, are, or will be attending St. Chris. The very real issue is that arguably the two most important licensing authorities (ok, ok, ECFMG doesn't issue licences, but they're a prerequisite to getting one) have suspended all applications from St. Chris for an indefinite period pending "investigations".

That is what's real. As is the fact that neither the school nor Senegal has made any official comments on this wholesome mess. I feel sad for those who have bet their future - and their money - on St. Chris. To me, at least, the school's clearly not worthy of the trust shown them. Of course, if St. Chris' own student body feel that everything is still honky dory and a purely bureaucratic glitch, all the more power to them.

However, I can't really see these issues going away. The current GMC and ECFMG suspensions are very likely to reach the ears of state medical boards, so there could be trouble for years to come, at least for those who want to work in the US - even if the current grave issues are resolved.

ol' man
02-18-2006, 06:21 PM
You should never post the things you are told out on a public forum unless you are 100% sure it is true
Good point. Like news articles from several years ago.


Hopefully, Oregon will add student internet sites to their 'watch list' and investigate.

And hopefully they will make sure the next time they post something that they refer to the first quote above.

AUCMD2006
02-18-2006, 06:38 PM
The man you so cleverly refer to as '*******' started this medical college with the spare change in his pocket. Which is why it was more cost effective during the inital stages to rent all the aforementioned things instead of actually owning them. The karaoke machine at $20 is a much more cost effective than a $500 PA system, especially when you have to have several of them. This frugality eventually led to the purchase of 3 buildings in an expensive 1st world country. Money doesnt grow on trees, especially when you have to not only support your own endeavor but also another school in a different country and various humanitarian projects in order to keep the government of your charter happy. A job well done to '*******' keep up the good work.

spare me the cries of humatarian sainthood to be placed at the heels of *******.... when you start a company and are living frugaly you don't save $400 on a PA system and buy a $800k house. please remove yourself from the GI tract and see what happened. Much in the same way as countless people do in the states and around the world ******* got startup capital, went the cheapest way possible for the services while paying himself at an execuive level. same way disney, ford, gm execs take home 80-120 million in bonuses each year even when they are in the red..so don't make this guy out to be a saint when he was living large while you guys had no library, no copiers/printers, and kareoke machines as AV equipment....

this has happened before and it will happen again but the myopia that some people have is disturbing...you may re-enter the GI tract now

empathy
02-18-2006, 07:16 PM
That article was a good post. St. Chris used it as an advertisement on their 2003 website and later denied the fact that they had once billed themselves as a 'US Run School'. It's true...they had a link to it right on their home page. Prior to that...2001 they had pictures of Cambridge University plastered on the home page along with a history of the university. Made it seem as if there was an affiliation.


Good point. Like news articles from several years ago.



And hopefully they will make sure the next time they post something that they refer to the first quote above.

ol' man
02-18-2006, 07:29 PM
I was referring to Az post on the Spartan forum which basically nobody on VMD has supported. But basically, what I am saying is that most of us who post on here are in the same boat, and want to be able to practice. A few people who post on here seem to be taking delight in the fact that some are having problems.

As to the second part of my statement, Oregon apparently found out that some information they had posted was erroneous. That was irresponsible on the part of a government agency. No state agency should ever post any accusation of a school being a "diploma mill" without cold hard facts.

Hope you enjoy trying to bring down as many schools as you can. And that is my last comment on this matter. It doesn't affect me, I just hate to see a couple of people delight in the misery of others. Guess thats the Southerner in me.

All SC students, I wish u the best.

empathy
02-18-2006, 07:48 PM
Oregon never accused St. Chris of being a diploma mill. What they said was, "Senegal denies degree granting authority". They changed it to this:

St. Christopher's College of MedicineSenegal, UK***Suspended by the British medical licensing authority, November 2005.*** Unproven licensure in Senegal. ODA has no evidence that this is an accredited or otherwise acceptable provider of postsecondary education meeting Oregon standards. Note: "St Christopher's Medical school (aka) St Christopher's Medical College based in Luton is not recognised by the UK authorities as a degree course provider nor does it satisfy the criteria for degree awarding..." UK Higher Education Governance office, 2004.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

ol' man
02-18-2006, 08:00 PM
Yeah. Whatever. Point is they relied on bad information, which makes anything posted there questionable. (similar to the Bush administration - anybody with any intelligence is going to question what comes from there based on the ironclad "yes we know they have WMDs")

Absolutely my last post on this matter. I recommend any SC students on here to continue to refute the information being posted by those few on VMD who want to see your school fail. (BTW NeilC, I am not putting you into that category - may not be positive, but you don't seem to be just constantly trying to find any minute detail to bring them down).

jguru2
02-18-2006, 08:41 PM
I was referring to Az post on the Spartan forum which basically nobody on VMD has supported. But basically, what I am saying is that most of us who post on here are in the same boat, and want to be able to practice. A few people who post on here seem to be taking delight in the fact that some are having problems.

As to the second part of my statement, Oregon apparently found out that some information they had posted was erroneous. That was irresponsible on the part of a government agency. No state agency should ever post any accusation of a school being a "diploma mill" without cold hard facts.

Hope you enjoy trying to bring down as many schools as you can. And that is my last comment on this matter. It doesn't affect me, I just hate to see a couple of people delight in the misery of others. Guess thats the Southerner in me.

All SC students, I wish u the best.

I have to agree with you...this forum has quite a few that relishes the fact that others suffer...
Amazing group of people...

Tritonesub
02-18-2006, 11:19 PM
The funny thing is these guys are a little out of their league. I mean most of us have a higher level education than any of them (aside from medical school). Many have worked professionally in the health care field with accolades before joining st.chris. Some students even have families that they are supporting in addition to going to school. They insult a man who has a accomplished a great deal single handedly by starting a school and provides a comfortable life for his family, including his ex-wife. Meanwhile their only accomplishment in life seems to be posting on websites. These guys probably still live in their mother's basement. I guess i should give them some credit for learning how to type. So congrats to all the haters and their astonishing accomplishment.

Smythe
02-19-2006, 03:49 AM
The funny thing is these guys are a little out of their league. I mean most of us have a higher level education than any of them (aside from medical school). Many have worked professionally in the health care field with accolades before joining st.chris. Some students even have families that they are supporting in addition to going to school. They insult a man who has a accomplished a great deal single handedly by starting a school and provides a comfortable life for his family, including his ex-wife. Meanwhile their only accomplishment in life seems to be posting on websites. These guys probably still live in their mother's basement. I guess i should give them some credit for learning how to type. So congrats to all the haters and their astonishing accomplishment.

http://www.priyantha.nl/rtc/upload/bullshit.jpg

Smythe
02-19-2006, 03:54 AM
User can't play nice.

Miklos
02-19-2006, 04:13 AM
I have to agree with you...this forum has quite a few that relishes the fact that others suffer...
Amazing group of people...

You know, I wouldn't count myself in that group. If someone in the past came to SC and now finds themselves unable to register for the USMLE, I do feel sorry for them.

However, given the recent actions of the GMC and the ECFMG (and the attendant coverage about it) anyone that considers enrolling into SC at this point is IMVHO simply gambling with their future. There comes a point where one has to be responsible for one's own decisions.

If the actions of the GMC and ECFMG do not act as large enough warnings to potential students now, well... the best of luck to those that chose to ignore them. It does make me wonder about their ability to assess risk though, and whether they are cut out to be physicians. Sorry if that sounded harsh.

CorporateRaider
02-19-2006, 06:50 AM
So, "the measurement", is how financially strong the individual is ,after he or she commences operations?

On another note:

I continue to vote, that the government of Senegal will confirm, that the College of Medicine St. Christopher's can operate its Luton, Campus. It's all about finances.

On yet another note:


Odd that St. Christopher's with its financial muscle, does not apply for its own charter in Senegal.
Odd that the ECFMG states that, St. Christopher's is affiliated with the El Hadj Ibrahima Niasse University, yet awards its own degree's, so what does the affiliation consist of?





The funny thing is these guys are a little out of their league. I mean most of us have a higher level education than any of them (aside from medical school). Many have worked professionally in the health care field with accolades before joining st.chris. Some students even have families that they are supporting in addition to going to school. They insult a man who has a accomplished a great deal single handedly by starting a school and provides a comfortable life for his family, including his ex-wife. Meanwhile their only accomplishment in life seems to be posting on websites. These guys probably still live in their mother's basement. I guess i should give them some credit for learning how to type. So congrats to all the haters and their astonishing accomplishment.

stephew
02-19-2006, 11:36 AM
Re: enjoying taking pleasure in others misfortune:
everyone here seems to be slapping on a pair of manpants and learning a Very Brady lesson: that even folks at the bottom of the social or educational barrel are so thrilled when someone joins the in the line behind them, they only see themselves as superior to another. And ignore that everyone in line in front of them would laugh if they paid attention. Possibly a clue to why many of them are at the bottom of the educational barrel.

maximillian genossa
02-19-2006, 11:38 AM
UTESA and Xochicalco




Other than St. Luke and Grace (and we know what happened to them) show me another school that had its ECFMG delayed or suspended?

azskeptic
02-19-2006, 12:06 PM
Re: enjoying taking pleasure in others misfortune:
everyone here seems to be slapping on a pair of manpants and learning a Very Brady lesson: that even folks at the bottom of the social or educational barrel are so thrilled when someone joins the in the line behind them, they only see themselves as superior to another. And ignore that everyone in line in front of them would laugh if they paid attention. Possibly a clue to why many of them are at the bottom of the educational barrel. Steph, it also shows that some people will continue to be lemming type folks following along off the cliff (though in reality lemmings don't do that). My thoughts are that there is now ample info on valuemd and elsewhere that reflects questions one should have about attending a school that isn't where its charter is. Every meeting now of state medical boards or staff has a section to discuss questionable medical schools so it is indeed being reflected as a national concern in the US (and in other countries that accept grads from these new schools). I do not believe anyone feels superior to the students that i can see; but i see people questioning decisions people have made. Many of the students have known of the potential problems for a long period of time.

CorporateRaider
02-19-2006, 12:28 PM
Dominican Republic?
Second one sounds Mexican

UTESA and Xochicalco

empathy
02-19-2006, 01:06 PM
******************
How can these students make a decision about their future if they don't know what is true and what is real. The haters are the people who aren't telling students the truth. This is about their future not the future of *******'s business.

We wish we still lived in mom's basement - life was much easier then:

I work with non-profit orgs and studied at USC many many years ago. I feel very old now - thanks.

Truth101 is probably the most successful person on this forum. He posted his education background on the Chairman, MD thread.

Mark 8:36 Jesus asks: "What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole
world and lose his own soul?"









The funny thing is these guys are a little out of their league. I mean most of us have a higher level education than any of them (aside from medical school). Many have worked professionally in the health care field with accolades before joining st.chris. Some students even have families that they are supporting in addition to going to school. They insult a man who has a accomplished a great deal single handedly by starting a school and provides a comfortable life for his family, including his ex-wife. Meanwhile their only accomplishment in life seems to be posting on websites. These guys probably still live in their mother's basement. I guess i should give them some credit for learning how to type. So congrats to all the haters and their astonishing accomplishment.

azskeptic
02-19-2006, 01:11 PM
UTESA and Xochicalco not a good neighborhood to be in either,eh?

maximillian genossa
02-19-2006, 01:34 PM
and both schools recovered. Maybe SC can or maybe not. We will see. So far I am opening a waging spot in Las Vegas on thi SC thing. It seems like a solid money maker for gamblers.





and both schools recovered. Maybe SC can or maybe not. We will see. So far I am opening a waging spot in Las Vegas on this SC thing. Who bets on they will recover, who bets on they will bite the dust?



Dominican Republic?
Second one sounds Mexican

azskeptic
02-19-2006, 01:43 PM
and both schools recovered. Maybe SC can or maybe not. We will see. So far I am opening a waging spot in Las Vegas on thi SC thing. It seems like a solid money maker for gamblers. If you want to handicap it, do a google and see how many grads you can find from those schools practicing in the US or doing residencies.

jpryor
02-19-2006, 02:16 PM
Every meeting now of state medical boards or staff has a section to discuss questionable medical schools so it is indeed being reflected as a national concern in the US (and in other countries that accept grads from these new schools).

Clearly, these are the words you would like people to believe, but in actuality, the FSMB has stated this: "Several boards reported pressure from residency programs to either allow the program to accept physicians from non-approved schools or revise the board’s listing of acceptable medical schools whose graduates can be licensed in their jurisdiction." It does make one wonder which Boards with approved lists were getting this pressue, huh? But these words appear to be consistent with ther FSMB's advisory that it finds that states that create their own criteria are discriminating and that these states should review their policies and statutes.

It appears some want to read more into the ECFMG action than is actually there. Where does it indicate a suspension or an investigation? There is no indication that certificates already issued are forfeit. It simply says they aren't going to register anymore until Senegal submits the requested documents specifically naming the Luton campus. It's been stated on VMD that the ECFMG is nothing more than a secretarial service and that is reasonably accurate. If the medical credential section is reviewed on ECFMG's web site, students are cautioned that if documentation is submitted identifying the student as Mary S. Smith any document submitted indicating Mary Smith is unacceptable. Reasonable for the student and reasonable for the school. To allege there is more to it than this is ignoring the fact that Senegal has provided the appropriate documents to IMED and that the ECFMG knows Senegal recognizes the school, but it wants it precisely stated in its own documents...not just Mary Smith, but Mary S. Smith.

Is the sky falling for SC students? I don't think so. The deadline for ranking is Feb 22. I'm pretty confident that if this cycle pertained to anybody they received their certificates weeks to months ago. About the only people adversely affected are those who applied for testing during the three month window affected by last week's ECFMG decision. They can simply reschedule once all the paper work is completed. Even in the US, government agencies move slower than any of us think is reasonable (unless they have to amend a web site with erroneous information on it..;) ), so I'm not going to be so rash as to allege this will be rectified immediately.

But it appears most people here are reasonable and share that feeling. To those who want to keep harping on it or alleging something sinister--go for it. All of this seems pretty anticlimatic now anyway.

OLDPRO
02-19-2006, 03:08 PM
If you want to handicap it, do a google and see how many grads you can find from those schools practicing in the US or doing residencies.Only thing I want to add is many hospitals do not post the residents on the internet or in a way that google picks it up, it is very fustrating.
(yea I'm here reading posts).

azskeptic
02-19-2006, 03:08 PM
Clearly, these are the words you would like people to believe, but in actuality, the FSMB has stated this: "Several boards reported pressure from residency programs to either allow the program to accept physicians from non-approved schools or revise the board’s listing of acceptable medical schools whose graduates can be licensed in their jurisdiction." It does make one wonder which Boards with approved lists were getting this pressue, huh? But these words appear to be consistent with ther FSMB's advisory that it finds that states that create their own criteria are discriminating and that these states should review their policies and statutes.

It appears some want to read more into the ECFMG action than is actually there. Where does it indicate a suspension or an investigation? There is no indication that certificates already issued are forfeit. It simply says they aren't going to register anymore until Senegal submits the requested documents specifically naming the Luton campus. It's been stated on VMD that the ECFMG is nothing more than a secretarial service and that is reasonably accurate. If the medical credential section is reviewed on ECFMG's web site, students are cautioned that if documentation is submitted identifying the student as Mary S. Smith any document submitted indicating Mary Smith is unacceptable. Reasonable for the student and reasonable for the school. To allege there is more to it than this is ignoring the fact that Senegal has provided the appropriate documents to IMED and that the ECFMG knows Senegal recognizes the school, but it wants it precisely stated in its own documents...not just Mary Smith, but Mary S. Smith.

Is the sky falling for SC students? I don't think so. The deadline for ranking is Feb 22. I'm pretty confident that if this cycle pertained to anybody they received their certificates weeks to months ago. About the only people adversely affected are those who applied for testing during the three month window affected by last week's ECFMG decision. They can simply reschedule once all the paper work is completed. Even in the US, government agencies move slower than any of us think is reasonable (unless they have to amend a web site with erroneous information on it..;) ), so I'm not going to be so rash as to allege this will be rectified immediately.

But it appears most people here are reasonable and share that feeling. To those who want to keep harping on it or alleging something sinister--go for it. All of this seems pretty anticlimatic now anyway. for those with ecfmg certification shouldn't be any problems i.e. already submitted their USMLEs, their diploma,etc. Agree with you on that.

I will be at the FSMB meeting and will give a live report in April 2006 on what transpires.

azskeptic

jpryor
02-19-2006, 03:21 PM
I will be at the FSMB meeting and will give a live report in April 2006 on what transpires.

azskeptic

Fool me twice, shame on me. I'll get it from the source...thanks.

azskeptic
02-19-2006, 03:22 PM
Fool me twice, shame on me. I'll get it from the source...thanks. agreed....it is only reports that need to be verified.

CorporateRaider
02-19-2006, 04:00 PM
Damn good logic.





Clearly, these are the words you would like people to believe, but in actuality, the FSMB has stated this: "Several boards reported pressure from residency programs to either allow the program to accept physicians from non-approved schools or revise the board’s listing of acceptable medical schools whose graduates can be licensed in their jurisdiction." It does make one wonder which Boards with approved lists were getting this pressue, huh? But these words appear to be consistent with ther FSMB's advisory that it finds that states that create their own criteria are discriminating and that these states should review their policies and statutes.

It appears some want to read more into the ECFMG action than is actually there. Where does it indicate a suspension or an investigation? There is no indication that certificates already issued are forfeit. It simply says they aren't going to register anymore until Senegal submits the requested documents specifically naming the Luton campus. It's been stated on VMD that the ECFMG is nothing more than a secretarial service and that is reasonably accurate. If the medical credential section is reviewed on ECFMG's web site, students are cautioned that if documentation is submitted identifying the student as Mary S. Smith any document submitted indicating Mary Smith is unacceptable. Reasonable for the student and reasonable for the school. To allege there is more to it than this is ignoring the fact that Senegal has provided the appropriate documents to IMED and that the ECFMG knows Senegal recognizes the school, but it wants it precisely stated in its own documents...not just Mary Smith, but Mary S. Smith.

Is the sky falling for SC students? I don't think so. The deadline for ranking is Feb 22. I'm pretty confident that if this cycle pertained to anybody they received their certificates weeks to months ago. About the only people adversely affected are those who applied for testing during the three month window affected by last week's ECFMG decision. They can simply reschedule once all the paper work is completed. Even in the US, government agencies move slower than any of us think is reasonable (unless they have to amend a web site with erroneous information on it..;) ), so I'm not going to be so rash as to allege this will be rectified immediately.

But it appears most people here are reasonable and share that feeling. To those who want to keep harping on it or alleging something sinister--go for it. All of this seems pretty anticlimatic now anyway.

Picard
02-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Problem is, this is not true. Current soon-to-be IMG's (graduating MS-4's) do not have ECFMG certificates because they have not yet graduated from medical school. To be fair to these soon-to-be IMG's, ECFMG and NRMP struck a deal -- each year, ECFMG provides NRMP a list of these soon-to-be IMG's who have passed all examinations required for ECFMG cert, but are not certified due to "not yet graduated" status. NRMP allows these soon-to-be IMG's to remain in the match under the assumption that if these soon-to-be IMG's only have a few months of medical school left, and they have passed all the exams required for ECFMG cert (Step I/IICK/IICS), it's just about a sure thing that they will be ECFMG certified in a few months by simply submitting their final diplomas and transcripts.

Now, this is where it gets interesting for current SC MS-4's in the Match. They technically qualifies to be on the ECFMG verification list for Match based on their passing of Step I/IICS/IICK. However, at this very moment, they do not qualify for ECFMG certificate even with graduation/diploma. In other words, at this very moment, their ability to obtain ECFMG certificate after graduation to legally start residency is in question. Therefore, it violates the "good faith" NRMP assumption that folks on the ECFMG verification list will be certified upon graduation. It will be interesting to see if ECFMG will verify these SC MS-4's to NRMP at this time since the official ECFMG stance on SC is "on-hold," meaning no ECFMG certificates will be issued to SC grads who do not already have one until issues are resolved. And, none of the current MS-4's have ECFMG certificates.

I hope things work out for SC students. Issues with SC, unfortunately, goes beyond the current GMC/ECFMG investigation. While SC is tehnically within the UK law at this time, we all know that public and media opinions often have future legislative implications. Who is to say that even if GMC rules in favor of SC this time around, future legislations won't mandate all squatter schools in UK either submit to UK accreditation (thus go the traditional UK MBBS system), or cease operation? Could it happen? Who knows, but I'd be worried. A perfect example of negative public/media opinions shaping legislative actions is the assault weapons laws in various states. Many assault weapon (a silly term) owners in California became instant felons after the ban for failing to comply with the new state law.

P

jpryor
02-21-2006, 05:11 PM
NRMP allows these soon-to-be IMG's to remain in the match under the assumption that if these soon-to-be IMG's only have a few months of medical school left, and they have passed all the exams required for ECFMG cert (Step I/IICK/IICS), it's just about a sure thing that they will be ECFMG certified in a few months by simply submitting their final diplomas and transcripts.

And you think these same people can't see what is going on with the ECFMG and SC? I can see the points you raise, but we're talking a mid-semester event, so I don't think anybody's hitting a panic button.


While SC is tehnically within the UK law at this time, we all know that public and media opinions often have future legislative implications. Who is to say that even if GMC rules in favor of SC this time around, future legislations won't mandate all squatter schools in UK either submit to UK accreditation (thus go the traditional UK MBBS system), or cease operation? Could it happen? Who knows, but I'd be worried. P

I understand what you are saying and, keeping Texas in mind, I suppose it could happen. But I just don't see it. For one, if the UK had that mindset they could have been on campus barring the doors weeks ago and been well within their laws. I've been reading the GMC 'consults' and to summarize their current thinking, there is an effort to streamline the process allowing foreign trained physicians to practice within the UK. It's almost a given that they have decided to abolish the limited registration license and their leaning toward a national standards test is looking more like a reality, too. Looking at SC specifically, it wouldn't take this long to find against SC and kick it back offshore. We know that the proper documents have been submitted by Senegal to IMED and that ECFMG wants theirs, too. It's also known that the vetting process is continuing at SC and that a private company is being used that is also involved in vetting the four new medical schools in the UK. It is illogical to think that the GMC would go through this effort and expense if it only intended to verify SC's charter or if its investiagtion revealed something untoward.

That said, I agree with you in that a cautionary approach should be maintained. This is a new model in the education environment and I don't think all of the kinks have been worked out yet. Even if everything works out for SC this go round, I don't think the last chapter has been written. But I also think that it's a viable model and we will see more of them.

azskeptic
02-21-2006, 05:27 PM
Problem is, this is not true. Current soon-to-be IMG's (graduating MS-4's) do not have ECFMG certificates because they have not yet graduated from medical school. To be fair to these soon-to-be IMG's, ECFMG and NRMP struck a deal -- each year, ECFMG provides NRMP a list of these soon-to-be IMG's who have passed all examinations required for ECFMG cert, but are not certified due to "not yet graduated" status. NRMP allows these soon-to-be IMG's to remain in the match under the assumption that if these soon-to-be IMG's only have a few months of medical school left, and they have passed all the exams required for ECFMG cert (Step I/IICK/IICS), it's just about a sure thing that they will be ECFMG certified in a few months by simply submitting their final diplomas and transcripts.

Now, this is where it gets interesting for current SC MS-4's in the Match. They technically qualifies to be on the ECFMG verification list for Match based on their passing of Step I/IICS/IICK. However, at this very moment, they do not qualify for ECFMG certificate even with graduation/diploma. In other words, at this very moment, their ability to obtain ECFMG certificate after graduation to legally start residency is in question. Therefore, it violates the "good faith" NRMP assumption that folks on the ECFMG verification list will be certified upon graduation. It will be interesting to see if ECFMG will verify these SC MS-4's to NRMP at this time since the official ECFMG stance on SC is "on-hold," meaning no ECFMG certificates will be issued to SC grads who do not already have one until issues are resolved. And, none of the current MS-4's have ECFMG certificates.

I hope things work out for SC students. Issues with SC, unfortunately, goes beyond the current GMC/ECFMG investigation. While SC is tehnically within the UK law at this time, we all know that public and media opinions often have future legislative implications. Who is to say that even if GMC rules in favor of SC this time around, future legislations won't mandate all squatter schools in UK either submit to UK accreditation (thus go the traditional UK MBBS system), or cease operation? Could it happen? Who knows, but I'd be worried. A perfect example of negative public/media opinions shaping legislative actions is the assault weapons laws in various states. Many assault weapon (a silly term) owners in California became instant felons after the ban for failing to comply with the new state law.

P So in other words, the students in the match tomorrow are at risk also.

empathy
02-21-2006, 05:45 PM
St. Chris is not a new 'Model' of any sort. Someone went to Senegal worked out a charter deal then rented a few buildings in the UK and started a branch of a third world medical college. St. Chris is a squatter school in the UK. I know it has been said here that the GMC is working with St. Chris to establish a 'new model in the educational community' but that's NOT true. Some gifted spinner somewhere made it up. If anyone else has heard rumors like this one please contact the GMC. The more info they have about what students are being told -- the more they'll be able to help. Students cannot build a good future for themselves if they are banking on things that aren't true.


And you think these same people can't see what is going on with the ECFMG and SC? I can see the points you raise, but we're talking a mid-semester event, so I don't think anybody's hitting a panic button.



I understand what you are saying and, keeping Texas in mind, I suppose it could happen. But I just don't see it. For one, if the UK had that mindset they could have been on campus barring the doors weeks ago and been well within their laws. I've been reading the GMC 'consults' and to summarize their current thinking, there is an effort to streamline the process allowing foreign trained physicians to practice within the UK. It's almost a given that they have decided to abolish the limited registration license and their leaning toward a national standards test is looking more like a reality, too. Looking at SC specifically, it wouldn't take this long to find against SC and kick it back offshore. We know that the proper documents have been submitted by Senegal to IMED and that ECFMG wants theirs, too. It's also known that the vetting process is continuing at SC and that a private company is being used that is also involved in vetting the four new medical schools in the UK. It is illogical to think that the GMC would go through this effort and expense if it only intended to verify SC's charter or if its investiagtion revealed something untoward.

That said, I agree with you in that a cautionary approach should be maintained. This is a new model in the education environment and I don't think all of the kinks have been worked out yet. Even if everything works out for SC this go round, I don't think the last chapter has been written. But I also think that it's a viable model and we will see more of them.

Borgy
02-24-2006, 06:54 PM
this website sucks.0

empathy
02-24-2006, 07:05 PM
I'm sorry guys. I wish I could change the situation for you. You are all in my prayers.

pruritis_ani
02-24-2006, 08:09 PM
So, were the St Chris students in the match that are not yet ECFMG certified allowed to submit an ROL with NRMP? If so, and if this is not worked out, how screwed are the programs that ranked St Chris students!! I hope the programs were at least made aware of the risk. Even though it sucks for St Chris students, it sure doesn't seem a good idea to hide this from the programs....

I would love to hear the story from anybody in the match now. Has there been any fallout from this as far as the match goes?

Scott1981
02-25-2006, 12:45 AM
who cares about the programs....... they will survive.

i care more about the MD's who are in limbo.

jpryor
02-25-2006, 08:34 AM
FAIMER has written to the government of Senegal to ascertain whether the government of Senegal’s recognition of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine includes the program in the United Kingdom. When a reply is received, ECFMG will advise St. Christopher’s College of Medicine and students and graduates who have pending applications at ECFMG. Should the information affect your eligibility status, ECFMG will notify you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same guy that Az alleged told him that SC students were suspended? Rather a convenient twisting of somebody's words when you have an agenda to discredit a school and scare potential students. A similar ploy was used with Oregon's ODA--but that was rectified toot sweet when the Attorney General was informed.

Again, the ECFMG is being diligent is insisting that there be documentation citing the campus in Luton as the school chartered by Senegal. If anybody doubts that Senegal does recognize that campus, simply refer to IMED, which was updated after receving documentation from Senegal and the school's Registrar's address is identified as Scotch Plains, NJ--which is where applications for the Luton campus originate.

As for those hypocrites expressing concern for the SC students...my my my...just a few weeks ago you were chastising these same students for attending SC. Your comments of concern are disingenuous. How it must stick in your craw to see the school weathering this event. I expect some of you to begin posting "I knew it would" statements...oops, some already have.

Borgy
02-25-2006, 10:16 AM
This website sucks.0

pruritis_ani
02-25-2006, 03:03 PM
So, were the St Chris students in the match that are not yet ECFMG certified allowed to submit an ROL with NRMP? If so, and if this is not worked out, how screwed are the programs that ranked St Chris students!! I hope the programs were at least made aware of the risk. Even though it sucks for St Chris students, it sure doesn't seem a good idea to hide this from the programs....

I would love to hear the story from anybody in the match now. Has there been any fallout from this as far as the match goes?

Hello? Bueller?

Anybody allowed to go through the match?

BTW, I love the "who cares about the programs" comments...nice. So, the PD should be forced to scramble? The spot that is taken by a St Chris grad that turns out ineligible is a spot that could have been taken by another IMG.

It sucks for the students, sure, but the programs should at least be made aware of the potential pitfalls of ranking a St Chris student, IMHO. The spot could go to somebody else without these issues.

So, anybody know if St Chris students were allowed to remain in the match?

Tritonesub
02-25-2006, 03:24 PM
They were all allowed to remain in the match. The ECFMG even said that they would issue certificates to all of those who completed their exams before February 10th regardless of whatever happens with the whole issue regarding St. Christopher's.

pruritis_ani
02-25-2006, 03:39 PM
They were all allowed to remain in the match. The ECFMG even said that they would issue certificates to all of those who completed their exams before February 10th regardless of whatever happens with the whole issue regarding St. Christopher's.

Well, that would be great, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Basically, you are saying the the ECFMG has agreed to recognize a degree from a school, even if they don't recognize the school???

I could understand them issuing certificates for those who met all the requirements (including graduation) before the issues came up Feb 10, because up until that date the school was ok for certification. But, I truly doubt they have commited to giving out ECFMG certs to those who have not graduated yet.

Do you have some way to verify this? Who did you hear it from?

Tritonesub
02-25-2006, 07:04 PM
I heard it from a student who spoke with the ECFMG. And yes one would have had to have graduated before the 10th. For those who will graduate later, the will have to wait on the outcome. For those who have their certs, they are good for life and no one can invalidate them.

milos
02-25-2006, 07:14 PM
I heard it from a student who spoke with the ECFMG. And yes one would have had to have graduated before the 10th. For those who will graduate later, the will have to wait on the outcome. For those who have their certs, they are good for life and no one can invalidate them.

Don't bet the farm on that one.

Borgy
02-28-2006, 09:12 PM
This website sucks.0

Tritonesub
02-28-2006, 11:42 PM
Man.. What planet have you been on borgy? Havent you been to any of the meetings?

wilcomp6
03-01-2006, 12:29 AM
hey guys,
One of my friends goes to St Christ. He can't take USMLE step 1. He is so depressed because so far he is indebted of 150000 dollars of loan. My question is "do you know if there is any school he can transfer to continue his medical study."

Borgy
03-01-2006, 12:41 AM
This website sucks.0

drzed
03-01-2006, 09:22 AM
hey guys,
One of my friends goes to St Christ. He can't take USMLE step 1. He is so depressed because so far he is indebted of 150000 dollars of loan. My question is "do you know if there is any school he can transfer to continue his medical study."

What lender offered your friend $75,000 a year to attend St. Chris? I'm sure there are many who are eager to know how they can get such a loan as well.

jpryor
03-01-2006, 10:18 AM
I wonder how many friends of friends will be emerging from the woodwork?

teratos
03-01-2006, 10:52 AM
I wonder how many friends of friends will be emerging from the woodwork?

A friend of mine told me there would be a couple more. G

Tritonesub
03-01-2006, 05:22 PM
I love it how people who cant study and pass their exams or those who have scammed the U.S. Government out of loan money so they can skip class and go to the pub and drink all day start crying to other people after the hole they've dug themselves into. The ECFMG hold is almost over. These people who have failed there exams numerous amounts of times and transferred to other schools because they failed elsewhere now think they can come up with some stories and be compensated for their own mistakes. While the temporary ECFMG hold would have been the perfect excuse to cover up your real reasons for wanting to transfer or get out of the debt you've created for yourself, it wont be for very much longer. I suggest that you take your 'Dr. L promised me i would grow wings and be able to fly' banter elsewhere.

empathy
03-01-2006, 05:57 PM
user can't play nice

Borgy
03-01-2006, 07:00 PM
This website sucks.0

jpryor
03-01-2006, 07:08 PM
user can't play nice

Well, that ought to float her boat.

bts4202
03-01-2006, 08:33 PM
What lender offered your friend $75,000 a year to attend St. Chris? I'm sure there are many who are eager to know how they can get such a loan as well.

ooopps, looks like someone didn;t think their imaginary new friend's situation through very well.

Tritonesub
03-01-2006, 09:53 PM
Lol...lol:d

azskeptic
03-01-2006, 10:06 PM
Lol...lol:d What we hearing from the ECFMG?

AUCMD2006
03-01-2006, 10:06 PM
150,000

$20,000X3 semesters =$60,000 X2 years (maybe failed a sem or 2?)=$120,000+$30,000 in undergrad with a grand total of $150,000

CorporateRaider
03-02-2006, 05:56 AM
My understanding is the (E.C.F.M.G.) is waiting for a letter to arrive.

Has that changed or still Status-Quo?



What we hearing from the ECFMG?

jpryor
03-02-2006, 07:07 AM
My understanding is the (E.C.F.M.G.) is waiting for a letter to arrive.

This may sound like a cheap shot..sorry if it does...but if this was MY school (meaning I owned it) I would be sitting in the Ministry of Health's office, tapping my feet and waiting for the letter. The I'd hand carry the dang thing to the ECFMG and wait in their offices for them to complete their activities.

adenymedic
03-02-2006, 07:14 AM
jp,
That sounds like something someone reasonable will do for the interest of the students and the school ay large. But we will see since Senegal is 3 days away by flight and Philadelphia 20 hours drive away from New Jersey (joke).

azskeptic
03-02-2006, 08:01 AM
This may sound like a cheap shot..sorry if it does...but if this was MY school (meaning I owned it) I would be sitting in the Ministry of Health's office, tapping my feet and waiting for the letter. The I'd hand carry the dang thing to the ECFMG and wait in their offices for them to complete their activities. has to go via diplomatic pouch.

jpryor
03-02-2006, 08:23 AM
has to go via diplomatic pouch.

LOL...that sounds reasonable. But still, I'd be shadowing the courier and if not on the same plane, one right behind it.

covertopz
03-02-2006, 09:11 AM
150,000

$20,000X3 semesters =$60,000 X2 years (maybe failed a sem or 2?)=$120,000+$30,000 in undergrad with a grand total of $150,000



where do you get $20,000 for a semester?
tuition is $8,000 for semester 1 thru 4 and $8,500 for semester 5

$8000x4=32,000+8,500=40,500

& say $3,000 a semester for living is $15,000.

$15,000 + 40,500 = 55,500

yea...i dunno where you get 150,000...

Tritonesub
03-02-2006, 01:58 PM
LOL...that sounds reasonable. But still, I'd be shadowing the courier and if not on the same plane, one right behind it.

Well, I believe the problem is that there must be no interference by the school. Already simply calling the Government of Senegal to verify may lead the critics to say that we coaxed the them into signing papers. The government must submit this paper on their own accord and must do it in a way that shows the last place the document was outside an envelope was in the minister's hand.

Another problem is that there is a rather violent issue going on in Dakar involving strikes and shootings at the other University. Unfortunately i'm not sure that we are on the high priority list for the government of Senegal at this point considering everything they must be dealing with in their own country. It seems like bad timing for all of these things to be happening.

DrShikima
03-02-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, I believe the problem is that there must be no interference by the school. Already simply calling the Government of Senegal to verify may lead the critics to say that we coaxed the them into signing papers. The government must submit this paper on their own accord and must do it in a way that shows the last place the document was outside an envelope was in the minister's hand.

Another problem is that there is a rather violent issue going on in Dakar involving strikes and shootings at the other University. Unfortunately i'm not sure that we are on the high priority list for the government of Senegal at this point considering everything they must be dealing with in their own country. It seems like bad timing for all of these things to be happening.


Quite right old chap! At this point, I'd concider the school a lost cause and invest my time and energy at another school. And I'd also concider starting over from day 1 at one of the other more established school (take your pick from carib, eastern europe or maybe in a distant case, Oz).

Miklos
03-02-2006, 03:09 PM
Well, I believe the problem is that there must be no interference by the school. Already simply calling the Government of Senegal to verify may lead the critics to say that we coaxed the them into signing papers. The government must submit this paper on their own accord and must do it in a way that shows the last place the document was outside an envelope was in the minister's hand.

I'm with jpryor on this one. I'd expect nothing less from the admin than to get on a plane to Dakar and solve the problem.


Another problem is that there is a rather violent issue going on in Dakar involving strikes and shootings at the other University. Unfortunately i'm not sure that we are on the high priority list for the government of Senegal at this point considering everything they must be dealing with in their own country. It seems like bad timing for all of these things to be happening.

Ah, yes... the downside of those darn third world country charters: civil unrest getting in the way of business.

AUCMD2006
03-02-2006, 03:45 PM
where do you get $20,000 for a semester?
tuition is $8,000 for semester 1 thru 4 and $8,500 for semester 5

$8000x4=32,000+8,500=40,500

& say $3,000 a semester for living is $15,000.

$15,000 + 40,500 = 55,500

yea...i dunno where you get 150,000...

$3000 every 4 months to live in the UK? that would be roughly $1500 after the conversion that would leave $750 a month for house, light, food, clothes, books, transportation, and any ammenities you want. can it be done? i don't think i could live in the US in little havana for $750 a month.


so i said about 10k for tuition (didn't know exactly how much it was) and 10,000 in living expenses. (this is equivalent to 5k in the US at around which is about $1200 a month that is reasonable to live on--> 700 rent and 500 for phone, light, internet, books, maybe car/gas etc)

so how can you live on $3000 for 4 months in the UK? can it be done?
anyway its a moo point

Smythe
03-02-2006, 06:26 PM
$3000 every 4 months to live in the UK? that would be roughly $1500 after the conversion that would leave $750 a month for house, light, food, clothes, books, transportation, and any ammenities you want. can it be done? i don't think i could live in the US in little havana for $750 a month.


so i said about 10k for tuition (didn't know exactly how much it was) and 10,000 in living expenses. (this is equivalent to 5k in the US at around which is about $1200 a month that is reasonable to live on--> 700 rent and 500 for phone, light, internet, books, maybe car/gas etc)

so how can you live on $3000 for 4 months in the UK? can it be done?
anyway its a moo point

guess they forgot the exchange rate. almost 2 dollars to 1 pound

covertopz
03-02-2006, 08:01 PM
$3000 every 4 months to live in the UK? that would be roughly $1500 after the conversion that would leave $750 a month for house, light, food, clothes, books, transportation, and any ammenities you want. can it be done? i don't think i could live in the US in little havana for $750 a month.


so i said about 10k for tuition (didn't know exactly how much it was) and 10,000 in living expenses. (this is equivalent to 5k in the US at around which is about $1200 a month that is reasonable to live on--> 700 rent and 500 for phone, light, internet, books, maybe car/gas etc)

so how can you live on $3000 for 4 months in the UK? can it be done?
anyway its a moo point


im not sure what a moo point is...unless of course youre a cow...but neways...


yea u can live on $3000 in 4 months here as long as your not going out partying every nite or living it up lavishly.

i pay $480 for monthly rent that includes utilities...and i live 30 seconds from school.

You can easily spend under $200 for food a month, as long as you shop at the grocery store (which there are 3 under 1 min walking dist from the school) and not eat out everyday.

I spend under $15 a month for phone, internet, and tv a month...but thats split with roomates.

so thats under $3000...so lets make you happy and say $3000-$4000 a semester, which is still very far from your creative 150,000 total

AUCMD2006
03-02-2006, 08:57 PM
ok my bad, forgot about roommates...i haven't been 18 in a while so i don't think i could share a house with other people so i guess it can be done if you live like a hermit and eat styrofoam and chips...hehe

you also forget that not everyone makes it out of undergrad with little loans, or maybe this isn't the first questionable medical venture they got into, maybe they were a kigezi or mcl transplant?

a moo point is a referrence to friends, one of maybe 3 episodes i've watched in my life actually, when joey says something is "a moo point, like a cow's opinion, it doesn't really mean anything" or like all these threads on SC, GMC, ECFMG they don't matter in the decision

studentMD
03-02-2006, 09:14 PM
lol i missed that friends episode .. (but then i could say that about most of the episodes).. figures joey would say something like that

(for those out there that dont really know.. "moo point" play on moot point see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moot_point )

Speedracer
03-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Well, well, well....it's been about a month now, since ECFMG investigation into ST. Chris began....

Any updates?

What's St. Chris doing about it? What's the hold up?

Is the school closing down? Any mass exodus from the school yet?

IUA is accepting transfers from St. Chris? So are a LOT of other Caribbean schools!

azskeptic
03-10-2006, 02:27 PM
Well, well, well....it's been about a month now, since ECFMG investigation into ST. Chris began....

Any updates?

What's St. Chris doing about it? What's the hold up?

Is the school closing down? Any mass exodus from the school yet?

IUA is accepting transfers from St. Chris? So are a LOT of other Caribbean schools! Nothing apparently substantiating the claims of administration has been received from what I can gather. What are students being told, other than not to talk in public on this forum?

teratos
03-10-2006, 02:39 PM
I would have expected this to take longer that the admin was speculating, since it is a matter of international governement communication. I am suprised at the utter lack of anything at this point, though. G

bts4202
03-10-2006, 02:48 PM
I would have expected this to take longer that the admin was speculating, since it is a matter of international governement communication. I am suprised at the utter lack of anything at this point, though. G

There is plenty going on, however, the students have reached a consensus that we don't care to help certain people craft our demise by clueing them in to our or our schools actions. When there is full and complete resolution (which is still fully expected soon), only then will we explain what has gone on. Rest assured that our inaction on this forum does not represent inaction in the non-digital world.

teratos
03-10-2006, 02:53 PM
There is plenty going on, however, the students have reached a consensus that we don't care to help certain people craft our demise by clueing them in to our or our schools actions. When there is full and complete resolution (which is still fully expected soon), only then will we explain what has gone on. Rest assured that our inaction on this forum does not represent inaction in the non-digital world.
OK. I don't really see where student action can, in any way, accelerate or change the momentum, but I can certainly see why you would choose not to post anything. It doesn't affect me, although I can empathize (***cringe*** I hate to use that term for a certain reason) with your current situation. G

azskeptic
03-10-2006, 02:54 PM
There is plenty going on, however, the students have reached a consensus that we don't care to help certain people craft our demise by clueing them in to our or our schools actions. When there is full and complete resolution (which is still fully expected soon), only then will we explain what has gone on. Rest assured that our inaction on this forum does not represent inaction in the non-digital world. You thinking that the Senegal govt is reading this forum and not responding to your requests to provide documentation to the GMC and ECFMG? Wow, now that is truly an international action. Thanks for keeping us posted.

bts4202
03-10-2006, 03:08 PM
You thinking that the Senegal govt is reading this forum and not responding to your requests to provide documentation to the GMC and ECFMG? Wow, now that is truly an international action. Thanks for keeping us posted.

Yes, that is exactley what we are thinking :roll:

jpryor
03-10-2006, 03:53 PM
OK. I don't really see where student action can, in any way, accelerate or change the momentum, but I can certainly see why you would choose not to post anything. It doesn't affect me, although I can empathize (***cringe*** I hate to use that term for a certain reason) with your current situation. G

Had to smile on that one.

empathy
03-10-2006, 04:00 PM
Be Nice.........


OK. I don't really see where student action can, in any way, accelerate or change the momentum, but I can certainly see why you would choose not to post anything. It doesn't affect me, although I can empathize (***cringe*** I hate to use that term for a certain reason) with your current situation. G

pruritis_ani
03-10-2006, 06:41 PM
There is plenty going on, however, the students have reached a consensus that we don't care to help certain people craft our demise by clueing them in to our or our schools actions. When there is full and complete resolution (which is still fully expected soon), only then will we explain what has gone on. Rest assured that our inaction on this forum does not represent inaction in the non-digital world.

1. I think that you are blaming the wrong people. From my limited knowledge, it appears pretty clear that the school is crafting it's own demise. And even if other's are trying to tear the school down, it would seem to me that any real school would easily be able to weather that storm. Let's put it this way...if your school has to secretly go about it's defense in order to slip through the system, the defense must be pretty weak.

2. Expected soon? Well, what about the NY decision? The GMC decision? Also expected soon? Why on earth should anybody believe what your administration is feeding you? They have not been correct yet....

CorporateRaider
03-10-2006, 08:09 PM
[quote=bts4202]There is plenty going on, however, the students have reached a consensus that we don't care to help certain people craft our demise by clueing them in to our or our schools actions. quote]

BTS:

I am surprised at your comments above; emphasis mine.

When a school's actions are transparent there is no need to not clue someone in.

teratos
03-11-2006, 06:21 AM
This isn't something that requires a strategy, and again, certainly not something that needs to or even should involve the students of the school. G

PathOne
03-11-2006, 12:26 PM
There is plenty going on, however, the students have reached a consensus that we don't care to help certain people craft our demise by clueing them in to our or our schools actions. When there is full and complete resolution (which is still fully expected soon), only then will we explain what has gone on. Rest assured that our inaction on this forum does not represent inaction in the non-digital world.

Oh, I do wonder what's really "going on". The supposedly small bureaucratic matter of sending a letter from Senegal on original letterhead to ECFMG in Phily, acknowleding that St. Chris is recognized as an official affiliate, has now taken more than a month. And still, neither Senegal nor St. Chris has made ANY official comment whatsoever on the matter.

Equally interesting, I looked up the website of the purported officially affiliated univ. of St. Chris in Senegal, Université Elhadji Ibrahima Niasse. While the website is entirely in French, they do in fact have a description on the TWO different medical programs offered by the university.

One is the "Senegal International Program", 5 year program, taught ENTIRELY in French... So that can't be St. Chris in Luton.

Other one is the "American" program. This consists of two years IN SENEGAL and two years in the US... That really doesn't look like the right thing either.

http://www.uein.sn/uein/francais/psenegal/presentation/presentation.html

In fact, I've been unable to find ANY mention of the UK "affiliate" on the Elhadji Ibrahima Niasse website... Furthermore, a Google search on the words "Christopher" and "Luton" limited to ANY Senegalese (.sn) website yields ZERO hits....

This must be the most particular "affiliation" ever.... I must say, based on available information, that I fully understand why the GMC and the ECFMG are sufficiently perplexed to take the drastic step of banning St. Chris graduates from licensure, until this mess is cleared up.

What I do not understand is why anybody could convince themselves to enroll in, or stay enrolled in, St. Chris. Whatever they may think about the training they're receiving, the fact remains that a St. Chris diploma is currently worthless in both the UK and the US.... So there's no reason to be concerned about anybody on this forum working towards the demise of St. Chris. The school is handling that task perfectly well all by itself.

Nebakanezer
03-11-2006, 03:57 PM
This must be the most particular "affiliation" ever.... I must say, based on available information, that I fully understand why the GMC and the ECFMG are sufficiently perplexed to take the drastic step of banning St. Chris graduates from licensure, until this mess is cleared up. We are not banned anywhere. We are suspended by the GMC. Not the same thing as banned. The ECFMG hasn't even suspended us, they are just holding our applications for processing. Also not the same thing as banned. Get your information straight before you look like more of a fool.

teratos
03-11-2006, 03:59 PM
We are not banned anywhere. We were suspended by the GMC. Not the same thing as banned. The ECFMG hasn't even suspended us, they are just holding out applications for processing. Also not the same thing as banned. Get your information straight before you look like more of a fool.

What would they have to do to get you to say you were suspended? Hold out applications for processing? :confused:

Nebakanezer
03-11-2006, 04:00 PM
What would they have to do to get you to say you were suspended? Hold out applications for processing? :confused: Its there language, not mine. They have never said suspended, and actually refuse to use that wording. I don't know why. Write and ask them.

Borgy
03-11-2006, 04:02 PM
This website sucks.
0

teratos
03-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Its there language, not mine. They have never said suspended, and actually refuse to use that wording. I don't know why. Write and ask them.

Don't you just love politics?

Nebakanezer
03-11-2006, 04:04 PM
Don't you just love politics? Just about as much as I love VMD.

teratos
03-11-2006, 04:05 PM
Just about as much as I love VMD.

hehe....
Hang in there

###
03-11-2006, 04:08 PM
................

PathOne
03-11-2006, 05:35 PM
PathOne.. I donno what your association is with the school. You are just picking up circumstantial information that doesn't make sence.. Your like one of those conspiracy theorists.. Get a life please.0
I have a life, and a nice one at that, thank you very much.

Can't really see what circumstantial information you claim I'm referring to. I'm merely pointing out that:
A) It is currently impossible to get licenced in the UK and the US if your diploma says St. Chris. You can call it a suspension, holding applications or a ban. It's the same thing.
B) Both after the GMC "suspension" and the ECFMG "application hold" it has been claimed here that it was due to a bureaucratic snafu which would quickly get resolved. So far, that explanation hasn't exactly been proven.
C) Nowhere on the Senegalese university website is there any reference to the UK "affiliate" nor any indication that training in the UK is available. Personally, I find that rather strange. And obviously, I'm not the only person on the planet that has doubts as to the claimed affiliation.

So wherein laies my conspiracy theory? Please enligten me, as I have no clue what you're talking about.:confused:

pruritis_ani
03-11-2006, 06:01 PM
A) It is currently impossible to get licenced in the UK and the US if your diploma says St. Chris. You can call it a suspension, holding applications or a ban. It's the same thing.

Not exactly true. If you have a St Chris diploma and ECFMG certificate you can work in the states. The problem is that as of now they are not registering students for the exams, and students that have already passed the exams are unable to get ECFMG certificates.

But I agree with your points 100%. This situation sucks, and I cannot fathom how people actually still believe this school and put up with this crap.

pruritis_ani
03-11-2006, 06:03 PM
Hey Borgy, I love your signature...but, the reason the school has only one direction to go is because they are at the bottom of the crap pile. Call me crazy, but that is not something I would be bragging about in MY sig line...:)

PathOne
03-11-2006, 06:18 PM
Not exactly true. If you have a St Chris diploma and ECFMG certificate you can work in the states. The problem is that as of now they are not registering students for the exams, and students that have already passed the exams are unable to get ECFMG certificates.

But I agree with your points 100%. This situation sucks, and I cannot fathom how people actually still believe this school and put up with this crap.

True. If you currently have certification from GMC or ECFMG, you're not affected.

Borgy
03-11-2006, 08:10 PM
This website sucks.
0

pruritis_ani
03-11-2006, 08:15 PM
well if you wanna talk like a teenager then I wouldn't be proud of your name as it is redness on you anus.. Now comeon... You guys have made me realized what a craphole this wesite is..
0

Actually, my name means itchy anus! Should have learned that at St. Chris. How about a differential Dx for pruritis ani? Did they teach you that?

All the students of crappy schools think this website is crappy. It sucks to have your illusions trashed, so they blame the messenger. If I went to St Chris I would likely hate this website too. And the ECFMG. And the GMC. And even the NY Med board. But, I would be willing to bet that despite your animosity, the problem is not with VMD, but with a certain Senegalese "medical school".

Borgy
03-11-2006, 08:39 PM
this website sucks..
00

pruritis_ani
03-11-2006, 08:51 PM
I don't hate the ECFMG. Although GMC is full of ***** liked you that want foreign schools to stay out and they force other agencies to believe in their bureaucratic nonsence.
Thank you for proving my point. I am sure the world agrees with you...anybody that questions St Chris is wrong and a retard. Of course that school could do no wrong!:rolleyes:

Well, not to worry. All of this "bureaucratic nonsence" should be sorted out soon. I mean it has only been >2yrs for NY, about 6 months for GMC, and a month for ECFMG, right? Things seem to be moving right along for you guys.

azskeptic
03-11-2006, 09:22 PM
http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=29

Harvard
03-13-2006, 03:21 PM
Those already ECFMG Certified are not affected by the latest ruling on St Christopher's. It does not affect those in the match or already in Residency.

empathy
03-13-2006, 03:39 PM
That's good news! I feel so sad for the rest of the students. Things will start looking up for them soon I hope.

milos
03-13-2006, 03:45 PM
Those already ECFMG Certified are not affected by the latest ruling on St Christopher's. It does not affect those in the match or already in Residency.

What about those in residency (or in the match) who have yet to take Step 3? ECFMG will certify them for Step 3, but not SC students/grads who are still taking Step 1 or 2?

And don't forget that even if one is ECFMG-certified, individual states can (and will) ban graduates of a med school that was NEVER WHO-listed and/or IMED-listed. Many states' rules and laws specifically mention that to qualify for licensure, an applicant must have attended a WHO/IMED-listed school.

Scott1981
03-13-2006, 03:49 PM
you dont go through ecfmg for step 3. ecfmg certification is finished after you pass the first two steps and graduate from your med school. you dont deal with them again.

maximillian genossa
03-13-2006, 03:54 PM
What about those in residency (or in the match) who have yet to take Step 3? ECFMG will certify them for Step 3, but not SC students/grads who are still taking Step 1 or 2?

And don't forget that even if one is ECFMG-certified, individual states can (and will) ban graduates of a med school that was NEVER WHO-listed and/or IMED-listed. Many states' rules and laws specifically mention that to qualify for licensure, an applicant must have attended a WHO/IMED-listed school.

So far They are WHO listed. Unless WHO pulls their listing then that story may apply. IMED still lists them but ECFMG put a hold on new St. Chris USMLE applicants. GMC-UK is NOT in charge of yanking WHO listings.

Scott1981
03-13-2006, 04:18 PM
So far They are WHO listed. Unless WHO pulls their listing then that story may apply. IMED still lists them but ECFMG put a hold on new St. Chris USMLE applicants. GMC-UK is NOT in charge of yanking WHO listings.

ecfmg is not part of the process for step 3. you dont apply through them.

PathOne
03-13-2006, 04:21 PM
So far They are WHO listed. Unless WHO pulls their listing then that story may apply. IMED still lists them but ECFMG put a hold on new St. Chris USMLE applicants. GMC-UK is NOT in charge of yanking WHO listings.

Well, apparently the GMC has problems verifying that St. Chris is indeed a bona fide affiliate of the univ. in Senegal which holds the WHO listing... So if no affiliation can be proven, I would assume that a St. Chris grad is NOT a grad of a WHO listed medical school, since St. Chris doesn't hold a WHO listing itself.... Not?

Scott1981
03-13-2006, 04:25 PM
maybe a grandfather clause or something.

milos
03-13-2006, 04:30 PM
So far They are WHO listed. Unless WHO pulls their listing then that story may apply. IMED still lists them but ECFMG put a hold on new St. Chris USMLE applicants. GMC-UK is NOT in charge of yanking WHO listings.

I didn't say anything about GMC-UK. Its not relevant to those who wish to practice in the U.S.

ECFMG is not processing SC applicants on the basis that its WHO certification cannot be proved valid. For all practical purposes (unless ECFMG reverses its decision), SC is not WHO listed.

cat
03-13-2006, 04:32 PM
anybody out there who knows what the hell is going on with ecfmg certification? it's taking forever! they give them 2 weeks ans it will be resolved, now it's almost 2 months and still NOTHING! anybody????:confused:

PathOne
03-13-2006, 04:41 PM
anybody out there who knows what the hell is going on with ecfmg certification? it's taking forever! they give them 2 weeks ans it will be resolved, now it's almost 2 months and still NOTHING! anybody????:confused:

Assuming it's correct that GMC has not been receiving/been able to verify info from Senegal regarding the claimed affiliation, it would be fairly natural to assume that the ECFMG are having the same problems as the GMC in verifying the information claimed by St. Chris... However, obviously only the ECFMG would know the status of their inquiry, so I would suggest that you contact them directly.

cat
03-13-2006, 04:48 PM
I already contacted ECFMG and they don't tell you anything. The only thing that they will tell you is to email Mr. *****, and they will not answer any of your questions regarding the issue!

cat
03-13-2006, 04:51 PM
can anybody out there tell me what's going on? any st chris student online right now?

bts4202
03-13-2006, 05:01 PM
can anybody out there tell me what's going on? any st chris student online right now?

You can get updates almost everyday by signing into the St. Chris Union (http://stchrisunion.org/forums). You must be a real student and use your st chris email account. If you do not know your email account info, please contact the school for your sign in details.

Picard
03-13-2006, 07:08 PM
Those already ECFMG Certified are not affected by the latest ruling on St Christopher's. It does not affect those in the match or already in Residency.


Those who are in residency presumably have their ECFMG cert already, so they shouldn't be affected. Those who are in the Match process, however, are NOT ECFMG certified. Although they were allowed to remain in the Match, my conversation with ECFMG indicates that if these students had not officially graduated before the "hold" date, they will not be issued ECFMG certificate until the current hold is lifted/resolved -- at least that is my understanding.

As for Step III, you apply through FSMB, based on the regulations of the state you want to take your Step III in. You still need to deal with ECFMG because ECFMG certificate is a requirement to sit for Step III. In other words, no ECFMG cert, no Step III.


You can get updates almost everyday by signing into the St. Chris Union (http://stchrisunion.org/forums). You must be a real student and use your st chris email account. If you do not know your email account info, please contact the school for your sign in details.

Schools (no matter what school) have no authority over what ECFMG does. I wouldn't trust anything any school says unless it's verified through the official source. In this case, keep e-mailing/calling ECFMG. Their words are the ones that count.

P

maximillian genossa
03-13-2006, 07:25 PM
You can get updates almost everyday by signing into the St. Chris Union (http://stchrisunion.org/forums). You must be a real student and use your st chris email account. If you do not know your email account info, please contact the school for your sign in details.

The St. Chris Union, such an unbiased and relaible source for trusted information concerning St. Chris. Much better than relying on the ECFMG or the GMC.

:twisted:

Borgy
03-13-2006, 07:30 PM
bah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

0

Scott1981
03-13-2006, 07:51 PM
As for Step III, you apply through FSMB, based on the regulations of the state you want to take your Step III in. You still need to deal with ECFMG because ECFMG certificate is a requirement to sit for Step III. In other words, no ECFMG cert, no Step III.

P

but it would never come to that, unless someone tries to take step 3 without ever doing a residency. the certificate is required for all residency programs, isnt it?

teratos
03-13-2006, 07:53 PM
I would agree with you but student union banned me for posting on this website. I feel abandoned.. thank you student union.
0

Oh, that's nice.

Picard
03-13-2006, 07:56 PM
There are a few states where you can sit for Step III right after graduation without being in a residency program. But yes, ECFMG certificate is an universal requirement to take Step III

P

Blocks81
03-14-2006, 01:07 PM
I Called both ECFMG and GMC today, and they both said the same thing, that they have not received any satisfactory response from senegal as of yet. its been over a month since ECFMG began this investigation and 4 months for GMC. dont believe what the st chris admin has to say to you, about this matter, they are a bunch of liars. orange crush is right, transfer out to a more stable school. any one having problems getting transcripts lately? luckily i got mine a few months ago







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