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azskeptic
02-14-2006, 10:09 AM
take a look at this site

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=820&school=&currpage=1&cname=SENEGAL&city=&region=AF&rname=Africa&mcode=820020&psize=25

"The medical college is affiliated with University El Hadj Ibrahima Niasse as of 2003; however, diplomas are awarded from St. Christopher's College of Medicine rather than the university"

What does this mean? Some students have told me that they were notified that ECFMG has suspended St. Chris students as of yesterday from applying to take USMLEs. Those who have already qualified for ECFMG are not bothered by this ruling: current students or those who haven't applied prior are the ones at risk. Students at Luton apparently were informed about this last week.

What is real?

CorporateRaider
02-14-2006, 10:15 AM
So if they are affiliated as of 2003, how did they issue degree's before?

Even through an affiliation agreement, the degree's have to be awarded by the University and not the College.

maximillian genossa
02-14-2006, 11:26 AM
When was the charter issued? 2000? 2001? .. etc. That is what makes the whole enchilada confusing.



take a look at this site

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=820&school=&currpage=1&cname=SENEGAL&city=&region=AF&rname=Africa&mcode=820020&psize=25

"The medical college is affiliated with University El Hadj Ibrahima Niasse as of 2003; however, diplomas are awarded from St. Christopher's College of Medicine rather than the university"

What does this mean? Some students have told me that they were notified that ECFMG has suspended St. Chris students as of yesterday from applying to take USMLEs. Those who have already qualified for ECFMG are not bothered by this ruling: current students or those who haven't applied prior are the ones at risk. Students at Luton apparently were informed about this last week.

What is real?

empathy
02-14-2006, 11:37 AM
But they have some students dating back to 1998?

azskeptic
02-14-2006, 11:39 AM
But they have some students dating back to 1998? those who have graduated probably will be grandfathered...but those who haven't graduated yet probably have some issues? what do people in that situation know for sure? What did SC tell you?

empathy
02-14-2006, 11:47 AM
But a medical school cannot operate without a charter. If they opened in 1998 and didn't rec' their charter and the green light until 2003...then, what???

azskeptic
02-14-2006, 11:48 AM
But a medical school cannot operate without a charter. If they opened in 1998 and didn't rec' their charter and the green light until 2003...then, what??? That is what the GMC/NHS Fraud Control unit and apparently now the ECFMG is trying to figure out......

empathy
02-14-2006, 11:53 AM
It's worse than I thought. I feel so bad for the students. I did everything I could think of to help them. I wish more people would have come forward several years ago.

maximillian genossa
02-14-2006, 12:03 PM
That under the affiliation they piggy backed a charter, which I do not believe is acceptable. I mentioned that several months ago in these forums, but maybe I am still wrong, but it seems that something is cooking.





That is what the GMC/NHS Fraud Control unit and apparently now the ECFMG is trying to figure out......

jpryor
02-14-2006, 12:03 PM
Students at Luton apparently were informed about this last week.

Odd, I've been in contact with students at SC and they were informed of the IMED update, but none of them mentioned anything about the ECFMG.

The IMED site was updated the middle of last week and since it obtains its information from governments, it appears that it is affirmation of the charter. It would seem likely that if the ECFMG had any issue or unresolved questions that it would unlist the school rather than update its page.

empathy
02-14-2006, 12:09 PM
Don't you ever quit? You are playing with people's lives.


Odd, I've been in contact with students at SC and they were informed of the IMED update, but none of them mentioned anything about the ECFMG.

The IMED site was updated the middle of last week and since it obtains its information from governments, it appears that it is affirmation of the charter. It would seem likely that if the ECFMG had any issue or unresolved questions that it would unlist the school rather than update its page.

maximillian genossa
02-14-2006, 12:17 PM
I assume that any questions that ECFMG may rise it will or should affect the IMED listing as well. Last week was one thing, it seems this week things are changing. It reminds me of Kigezi, St. Luke and even Grace.
Odd, I've been in contact with students at SC and they were informed of the IMED update, but none of them mentioned anything about the ECFMG.

The IMED site was updated the middle of last week and since it obtains its information from governments, it appears that it is affirmation of the charter. It would seem likely that if the ECFMG had any issue or unresolved questions that it would unlist the school rather than update its page.

azskeptic
02-14-2006, 12:22 PM
Odd, I've been in contact with students at SC and they were informed of the IMED update, but none of them mentioned anything about the ECFMG.

The IMED site was updated the middle of last week and since it obtains its information from governments, it appears that it is affirmation of the charter. It would seem likely that if the ECFMG had any issue or unresolved questions that it would unlist the school rather than update its page. suggest you check with ECFMG and see what you are told. if you don't have ECFMG already, see if you can apply for it.

jpryor
02-14-2006, 12:24 PM
Don't you ever quit? You are playing with people's lives.

It seems to me that the web page speaks for itself....it's not me trying to read ominous things into it.

As for playing with people's lives...this is a forum. Don't think it has more meaning than it does.

CorporateRaider
02-14-2006, 12:58 PM
Don't read into it more than is there. (We suppose) in the year 2003 "they" became affiliated with a University in Senegal; so they are legally covered on all diploma's issued from 2003 forth; under the charter they are using.

The question is, were any diploma's issued before the year 2003? If they were, was St. Christophers affiliated with another school in Senegal?







But a medical school cannot operate without a charter. If they opened in 1998 and didn't rec' their charter and the green light until 2003...then, what???

jpryor
02-14-2006, 01:13 PM
suggest you check with ECFMG and see what you are told. if you don't have ECFMG already, see if you can apply for it.

The ECFMG doesn't apply to me.

empathy
02-14-2006, 01:14 PM
The BBC report was correct. The school did not get the go ahead until 2003. How can a medical college that wasn't suppose to have opened for business until 2003 have graduates in 2003, 2004 or even 2005?


Don't read into it more than is there. (We suppose) in the year 2003 "they" became affiliated with a University in Senegal; so they are legally covered on all diploma's issued from 2003 forth; under the charter they are using.

The question is, were any diploma's issued before the year 2003? If they were, was St. Christophers affiliated with another school in Senegal?

blythplace
02-14-2006, 01:16 PM
Don't you ever quit? You are playing with people's lives.

do you? He's not the school, he's a poster on vmd. Just because he's not part of the azskeptic's "Justice League of VMD" doesn't mean you need to jump down his throat.

jpryor
02-14-2006, 01:23 PM
Don't read into it more than is there. (We suppose) in the year 2003 "they" became affiliated with a University in Senegal; so they are legally covered on all diploma's issued from 2003 forth; under the charter they are using.

The question is, were any diploma's issued before the year 2003? If they were, was St. Christophers affiliated with another school in Senegal?

I think the worst case scenarion is that there might be an issue with degrees prior to 2003. But even that is reading into the IMED update. Unless this is being rolled out in phases and there's another update coming, it appears that the government of Senegal has provided the documentation to IMED that SC received its charter in 2000 and that it became affiliated with the university in 2003, yet still issues its own degree.

Now, if one accepts even the marginal information that SC became affiliated with the university in 2003, it makes Oregon's ODA information very suspect.

I don't think this game has played out, yet. Certainly, the current status of the school's charter isn't in question so the students attending now shouldn't have any issues.

bts4202
02-14-2006, 01:38 PM
Please actually read the website:

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=820&school=&currpage=1&cname=SENEGAL&city=&region=AF&rname=Africa&mcode=820020&psize=25



(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)
Graduation Years (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;) 2000 - Current
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Year Instruction Began (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#startyear','370','292') ;) 2000
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Language of Instruction (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#mslang','370','292');) English, French
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Duration of the Curriculum (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#duration','370','292'); ) 4-5 years
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Entrance Examination Requirement (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#entrance','370','292'); ) Data not currently available.
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Foreign (Non-National) Students Eligible (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#fse','370','292');) Yes
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Total Enrollment (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#enroll','370','292');) Data not currently available.
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)Notes (http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#notes','370','292');) The medical college is affiliated with University El Hadj Ibrahima Niasse as of 2003; however, diplomas are awarded from St. Christopher's College of Medicine rather than the university.
(http://javascript<b></b>:openwindow('imedinfo.html#gradyears','370','292') ;)

It plainly says that st chris affiliated with Unive el hadji in 2003, but legitimate graduating years according to ecfmg is "2000-current" and year instruction began is 2000

azskeptic
02-14-2006, 01:41 PM
Please actually read the website:

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=820&school=&currpage=1&cname=SENEGAL&city=&region=AF&rname=Africa&mcode=820020&psize=25



It plainly says that st chris affiliated with Unive el hadji in 2003, but legitimate graduating years according to ecfmg is "2000-current" and year instruction began is 2000 Ask the ECFMG what SC's current status is for those who haven't qualified via ECFMG and that will answer what this means. Why is the University not awarding the degrees?

empathy
02-14-2006, 01:44 PM
....you are actually going to try to twist this so that Oregon is brought into question? Oregon has been warning students about this school since the very beginning. They deserve a HUGE thank you for all their hard work. Job well done! How many thousands of students have they saved from being involved in situations like this. None of the students who visited their site and believed what they read have found themselves caught up in a nightmare like this one.


I think the worst case scenarion is that there might be an issue with degrees prior to 2003. But even that is reading into the IMED update. Unless this is being rolled out in phases and there's another update coming, it appears that the government of Senegal has provided the documentation to IMED that SC received its charter in 2000 and that it became affiliated with the university in 2003, yet still issues its own degree.

Now, if one accepts even the marginal information that SC became affiliated with the university in 2003, it makes Oregon's ODA information very suspect.

I don't think this game has played out, yet. Certainly, the current status of the school's charter isn't in question so the students attending now shouldn't have any issues.

jpryor
02-14-2006, 01:52 PM
[quote=empathy]....you are actually going to try to twist this so that Oregon is brought into question? quote]

Maybe your astute legal mind hasn't fathomed the position the ODA was placed in by relying on erroneous information...but other attorneys are not.

CorporateRaider
02-14-2006, 01:55 PM
Good point.

Then IMED needs to re-word the language. Either the school was recognized in 2000 or it was not until the year 2003.

But BTS has a point.




Please actually read the website:

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=820&school=&currpage=1&cname=SENEGAL&city=&region=AF&rname=Africa&mcode=820020&psize=25



It plainly says that st chris affiliated with Unive el hadji in 2003, but legitimate graduating years according to ecfmg is "2000-current" and year instruction began is 2000

azskeptic
02-14-2006, 01:55 PM
[quote=empathy]....you are actually going to try to twist this so that Oregon is brought into question? quote]

Maybe your astute legal mind hasn't fathomed the position the ODA was placed in by relying on erroneous information...but other attorneys are not. this forum is a good place to discuss risk since that is what we are discussing currently. good point JP

jpryor
02-14-2006, 01:58 PM
LOL...you be sure to keep us updated on that.

empathy
02-14-2006, 02:51 PM
L. met the BBC with his lawyer per the BBC FiveLive Report St. Chris is suing the BBC per Whuds. St. Chris had their lawyers working with the GMC and got them on Oregon's case per BTS. St. Chris sure does spend a lot of money on lawyers. Life would be a lot easier and less expensive for the admin if they would just play by the rules.



[quote=empathy]....you are actually going to try to twist this so that Oregon is brought into question? quote]

Maybe your astute legal mind hasn't fathomed the position the ODA was placed in by relying on erroneous information...but other attorneys are not.

maximillian genossa
02-14-2006, 04:30 PM
That's why they go to law school, to handle stuff like this among other things. But St. Chris has bigger fish to fry, rather than chasing the BBC they should seriously start looking into what is happening in the USA (with the ECFMG-IMED), which happens to have (I guess) the vast majority of its students.

Could it be a case of wrong priorities?






[quote=empathy]L. met the BBC with his lawyer per the BBC FiveLive Report St. Chris is suing the BBC per Whuds. St. Chris had their lawyers working with the GMC and got them on Oregon's case per BTS. St. Chris sure does spend a lot of money on lawyers. Life would be a lot easier and less expensive for the admin if they would just play by the rules.

CorporateRaider
02-14-2006, 08:52 PM
Can the readership confirm that the BBC is being sued by ........? Case number? Jurisdiction?

Investing money for good legal advice is a wise move; the problems begin when it is spent on baseless claims.

On the surface it's simple.

1) BBC or other(s) called into question the operations of a medical school.

2) The Medical School has presented its paperwork to the correct authorities to refute any inconsistencies in the BBC reporting.

What is the result of the allegation(s)?

Enough time has transpired for a short "one-two-looksie" into this matter, if it's as simple as it seems on the surface. If the matter is not as simple as it appear's then be prepared for the long haul (which seems to be the case).

Today, certain individual(s) seem to have been made aware of a potential "item of interest" that could be coming from the ECFMG or similar.

Should the "item of interest" turn out to be true, then this is serious enough to warrant further layman investigation.

If the "item of interest" is not true, then everything is status quo.

:)









[quote=empathy]L. met the BBC with his lawyer per the BBC FiveLive Report St. Chris is suing the BBC per Whuds. St. Chris had their lawyers working with the GMC and got them on Oregon's case per BTS. St. Chris sure does spend a lot of money on lawyers. Life would be a lot easier and less expensive for the admin if they would just play by the rules.

CorporateRaider
02-14-2006, 08:56 PM
[quote=empathy]....you are actually going to try to twist this so that Oregon is brought into question? quote]

Maybe your astute legal mind hasn't fathomed the position the ODA was placed in by relying on erroneous information...but other attorneys are not.

AZSKEPTIC:

Have you passed along erroneous information to the ODA?

If you did would it have any impact on the professional conduct demanded of a State position? In other words would they rely only on your "word" and not investigate the facts via other sources of "official" information?

maximillian genossa
02-14-2006, 08:57 PM
Legal analysis


Can the readership confirm that the BBC is being sued by ........? Case number? Jurisdiction?

Investing money for good legal advice is a wise move; the problems begin when it is spent on baseless claims.

On the surface it's simple.

1) BBC or other(s) called into question the operations of a medical school.

2) The Medical School has presented its paperwork to the correct authorities to refute any inconsistencies in the BBC reporting.

What is the result of the allegation(s)?

Enough time has transpired for a short "one-two-looksie" into this matter, if it's as simple as it seems on the surface. If the matter is not as simple as it appear's then be prepared for the long haul (which seems to be the case).

Today, certain individual(s) seem to have been made aware of a potential "item of interest" that could be coming from the ECFMG or similar.

Should the "item of interest" turn out to be true, then this is serious enough to warrant further layman investigation.

If the "item of interest" is not true, then everything is status quo.

:)









[quote=empathy]L. met the BBC with his lawyer per the BBC FiveLive Report St. Chris is suing the BBC per Whuds. St. Chris had their lawyers working with the GMC and got them on Oregon's case per BTS. St. Chris sure does spend a lot of money on lawyers. Life would be a lot easier and less expensive for the admin if they would just play by the rules.

azskeptic
02-14-2006, 09:45 PM
[quote=jpryor]

AZSKEPTIC:

Have you passed along erroneous information to the ODA?

If you did would it have any impact on the professional conduct demanded of a State position? In other words would they rely only on your "word" and not investigate the facts via other sources of "official" information? check www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org) St. Chris has been on the list longer than my presence here ........

But our resident attorneys here on the list can tell us what a state's responsibility is to sift through reports from all sorts and have them vetted by an attorney.

Am I responsible? Nope......after a while you can't really think that someone 6500 miles away from England can be responsible for the group of problems expressed here. Not logical. so, counselor, if it isn't an external source?

PathOne
02-14-2006, 10:53 PM
OK. Now I'm REALLY confused. So according to IMED, degrees are awarded by St. Chris, which since 2003 have had some kind of affiliation with an university in Senegal which opened that same year. So which university was St. Chris affiliated with before that time?

It does seem that there's an awful lot of confusion about which charter St. Chris is or has been working under, in addition to the whole issue of being a squatter school.

The GMC investigation has now been ongoing for a couple of months. Apart from statements from current students, what has been the official word from the school regarding these issues?

jpryor
02-15-2006, 06:33 AM
[quote=CorporateRaider] check www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org) St. Chris has been on the list longer than my presence here ........

But our resident attorneys here on the list can tell us what a state's responsibility is to sift through reports from all sorts and have them vetted by an attorney.

Am I responsible? Nope......after a while you can't really think that someone 6500 miles away from England can be responsible for the group of problems expressed here. Not logical. so, counselor, if it isn't an external source?

Unless there's a Hold Harmless clause, all parties in a conspiracy/collusion can be held responsible.

empathy
02-15-2006, 07:55 AM
People who talk about lawsuits and lawyers so much usually have a lot to hide. The mafia for example has more lawyers than anyone.

We should table this discussion. I have it on good authority that a lot of new info about this will be coming out soon.

PathOne
02-15-2006, 07:57 AM
We should table this discussion. I have it on good authority that a lot of new info about this will be coming out soon.

Yeah, heard that tune since December... Doesn't seem to change, tho' a bit difficult to discern the progress being made in this somewhat non-trivial matter.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 08:03 AM
AZSKEPTIC:

Have you passed along erroneous information to the ODA?

If you did would it have any impact on the professional conduct demanded of a State position? In other words would they rely only on your "word" and not investigate the facts via other sources of "official" information?

You really don't expect Az to own up to anything, do you? He won't acknowledge the falsehoods in somebody else's statements so it is highly unlikely that he will come make any 'plain language' statement acknowledging his own misdeeds. I'm certain his attorney wouldn't want him to.

But in this case, it doesn't matter. The state of Oregon is now aware (as evidenced by the change on their web page this week). The information posted on the ODA web page is normally obtained through a process that leaves a paper trail. The erroneous information that was posted on the web page was never alleged by an official source--only a news reporter for a radio show who inaccurately cited a Senegalese authority as its source (and the government of Senegal has refuted that story). In addition, the rapidity in which the ODA altered its web site to reflect the erroneous information means that the ODA could not have obtained its information through any official channel.

Clearly, the state's representative erred in relying on the information in the FiveAlive report. His willingness to take action on that flimsy information suggests a bias against the school--a bias that is shared by the source that provided him the erroneous information. There is a question of whether this representative and his source conspired together and with others. This state representative has already identified Az as his source for foreign school information.

The updated IMED web page suggests that the allegations in the FiveAlive report were ill-founded--which again raises the issue of collusion/conspiracy. And again, by his own admission, Az is involved.

Make of it what you will.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 08:05 AM
You really don't expect Az to own up to anything, do you? He won't acknowledge the falsehoods in somebody else's statements so it is highly unlikely that he will come make any 'plain language' statement acknowledging his own misdeeds. I'm certain his attorney wouldn't want him to.

But in this case, it doesn't matter. The state of Oregon is now aware (as evidenced by the change on their web page this week). The information posted on the ODA web page is normally obtained through a process that leaves a paper trail. The erroneous information that was posted on the web page was never alleged by an official source--only a news reporter for a radio show who inaccurately cited a Senegalese authority as its source (and the government of Senegal has refuted that story). In addition, the rapidity in which the ODA altered its web site to reflect the erroneous information means that the ODA could not have obtained its information through any official channel.

Clearly, the state's representative erred in relying on the information in the FiveAlive report. His willingness to take action on that flimsy information suggests a bias against the school--a bias that is shared by the source that provided him the erroneous information. There is a question of whether this representative and his source conspired together and with others. This state representative has already identified Az as his source for foreign school information.

The updated IMED web page suggests that the allegations in the FiveAlive report were ill-founded--which again raises the issue of collusion/conspiracy. And again, by his own admission, Az is involved.

Make of it what you will. ....the grassy knoll crowd finally surfaces........the BBC sticks by their story so apparently they haven't heard from the attorneys yet.

Miklos
02-15-2006, 08:14 AM
The erroneous information that was posted on the web page was never alleged by an official source--only a news reporter for a radio show who inaccurately cited a Senegalese authority as its source (and the government of Senegal has refuted that story).

Perhaps I missed this, but where does the government of Senegal publicly state that the BBC was wrong?

No, not the supposed informal statement to students, which is IMO (again) meaningless.

Was there a press release that I missed somewhere?

jpryor
02-15-2006, 08:32 AM
....the grassy knoll crowd finally surfaces........the BBC sticks by their story so apparently they haven't heard from the attorneys yet.

The operative word being 'yet'.

IF I was in the cross-hairs I wouldn't be laughing that I haven't felt the bullet yet.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 08:35 AM
The operative word being 'yet'.

IF I was in the cross-hairs I wouldn't be laughing that I haven't felt the bullet yet. Has anyone told you that you seem to use threats alot? I've been threatened by you so many times that it seems normal behavior to expect. or was your threat this time directed towards the BBC, Oregon, ECFMG, NHS Fraud Control, GMC?

blythplace
02-15-2006, 08:36 AM
People who talk about lawsuits and lawyers so much usually have a lot to hide. The mafia for example has more lawyers than anyone.

We should table this discussion. I have it on good authority that a lot of new info about this will be coming out soon.

This post is so flimsy that everyone else has chosen to just ignore you. Keep coming up with gold nuggets like "people who have lawyers have things to hide" and for sure people will take you more seriously.

And THANK GOD - YOU have it on "Good Authority" that alot of new info is coming out. We're all eagerly awaiting.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 08:37 AM
You view every challenge as a threat, so we've grown accustomed to your whines.

bts4202
02-15-2006, 08:39 AM
Has anyone told you that you seem to use threats alot? I've been threatened by you so many times that it seems normal behavior to expect. or was your threat this time directed towards the BBC, Oregon, ECFMG, NHS Fraud Control, GMC?

I fail to see any threat, he is only saying that certain attorneys may have you in their crosshairs. it seems that you are feeling threatened a lot lately, I wonder what that would means....

jpryor
02-15-2006, 08:41 AM
I got to take care of some business...but I'll check in when I get back.

empathy
02-15-2006, 09:06 AM
Okay, since you are so determined to talk about St. Chris attorneys and lawsuits....here we go:

St. Chris admin have been to court twice that I know of:

B. was sued for poaching students by a rival college and lost.

Another admin was sued in Naples back in the 90's for $330,000 and lost. He appealed and LOST.

BTS and JP you are doing St. Chris more harm than good.


I fail to see any threat, he is only saying that certain attorneys may have you in their crosshairs. it seems that you are feeling threatened a lot lately, I wonder what that would means....

bts4202
02-15-2006, 09:12 AM
Okay, since you are so determined to talk about St. Chris attorneys and lawsuits....here we go:

St. Chris admin have been to court twice that I know of:

B. was sued for pouching students by a rival college and lost.

Another admin was sued in Naples back in the 90's for $330,000 and lost. He appealed and LOST.

BTS and JP you doing St. Chris more harm than good.
so let me get this straight:

1. an admin was sued for taking students from a school who ended up fleeing the country with all the students tuition money (and money from the lawsuit) and leaving them competely stranded. You may call it pouching, I call it missionary work as do all of the students who left Kigezi to come to SC.

2. Someone involved with SC was sued for something having nothing to do with SC, back "in the 90's" before SC even existed and you believe that is relevant to this discussion? Sounds more like your grasping at straws, which would be corroberated by your complete lack of concrete details.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 09:22 AM
I fail to see any threat, he is only saying that certain attorneys may have you in their crosshairs. it seems that you are feeling threatened a lot lately, I wonder what that would means.... the other member of the tag team shows up......you see no threats when bullets are mentioned? Attorneys are my friends because they support the law which i do also and the truth is the best defense.

bts4202
02-15-2006, 09:32 AM
the other member of the tag team shows up......you see no threats when bullets are mentioned? Attorneys are my friends because they support the law which i do also and the truth is the best defense.

Using a gun metaphor to describe what attorneys do does not equal "I will shoot you if you do not shut up". You seem to be most comfortable playing the martyr, even when you have to create threats and oppression out of thin air to support your image.

BTW, ure tag team partner empathy is here also. I expect his post saying you are the wisest person in the world and we should all give you a nobel peace prize to follow shortly.

maximillian genossa
02-15-2006, 09:34 AM
Az and Empathy wish that St.chris bites the dust. BTS and Jpryor et all wish for a positive outcome.

All of us (I bump into it now and then) are arguing and fighting over something WE have no control over. It is up to GMC, IMED-ECFMG the whole alphabet soup.

Lets chill out and stop all this speculation mumbo jumbo or lets change careers and get jobs as detectives, small time journalists or lawyers.

schoolagain
02-15-2006, 09:36 AM
Ohhhhhh....that is funny!!! You perceive that as a threat.....now I question all your other assertions of being threatened, stalked ect. I think we are all aware of your game skeptic.....MARTYR!!!!!!!....WE are not buying it anymore.
LOL

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 09:38 AM
Ohhhhhh....that is funny!!! You perceive that as a threat.....now I question all your other assertions of being threatened, stalked ect. I think we are all aware of your game skeptic.....MARTYR!!!!!!!....WE are not buying it anymore.
LOL There we go..everyone is checking in.

AUCMD2006
02-15-2006, 09:45 AM
so let me get this straight:

1. an admin was sued for taking students from a school who ended fleeing the country with all the students tuition money and leaving them competely stranded. You may call it pouching, I call it missionary work as do all of the students who left Kigezi to come to SC.

2. Someone involved with SC was sued for something having nothing to do with SC, back "in the 90's" before SC even existed and you believe that is relevant to this discussion? Sounds more like your grasping at straws, which would be corroberated by your complete lack of concrete details.


this is an assenine statement in a thread full of them it blends right in so i'l make mine to blend in. do you think the aggressive marketing and targeting of those kigezi students had anything to do with the school closing? my god, the school only had 20 students was barely afloat and in goes SC with wild claims about affiliations with cambridge, a great location, friendly student 'advocates' eager to correspond with anyone who will listen about the greatness of luton and you are surprised that you end up with some starry eyed kigezi students whom actually had a half honest administration that told them the limitations of thier degrees and associations?

the only reason SC has succeeded where others have failed is the aggressive marketing, the outright lies spread by eager unwitting students spreading them creating a defacto pseudocredibility because hey its a student telling the story...why would they intentionally mislead other students? kigezi, MCL, SC all were the same at the begining, you rented facilities, had the same type of professor pool (undergrad profs from local polys, local practicing docs with no teaching expereince, and the cheap available labor of anyone with a MD or MBBS or PhD anywhere in the world looking for any meager paycheck in a first world country as a way in, stay in, time to study for their exams)

Misionary work bts? well you also think SC students are doing humanitarian work by paying tuition and not doing anything yourself so i see how you can beleive that stealing students away from another school in the same way misionaries 'convert' people is just. because the misionaries always know whats best for them right? well just like in the new world, the real motive for the crown sending priests was gold, it is for your hallowed admin...convert to SC and show me the money....(doing the jerry mcgwyre dance in the computer lab)

also if i was doing any misionary work, i'd allow people to know about it, yet no one is allowed to talk about the characters that run that plcae...i'm gonna start calling your leader *******. from now lets all please refer to him as *******...(anyone not familiar with the similarities please google spiderman *******). on the same note, you ask for specifics and names from empathy yet no one is allowed to put any up here, specially of your school...so any details pertaining to lawsuits, persons of interest, who owns what can be tip toed around and noone can really put up any factual info [links are blocked], and difused by *******'s henchmen asking for details and proof...great set up you got there, the ******* has achieved absolute internet immunity. are we allowed to discuss ******* on SDN? will you allow the naming of events? links to sources? and a honest discussion on his credentials? or are you afraid the pedestal for the medical mastermind that wows 2nd semesters with amazing medical knowledge will crack?


rant off, i've had a really bad week and will most likely regret posting this but damn it feels good to finally vent on this topic

and before you try to shift the foucus: i'd be happy to discuss the owner of auc i'm sure the devry board of directors probably has a profile sheet,.....btw who owns sgu?

bts4202
02-15-2006, 09:50 AM
There we go..everyone is checking in.

what? Is it only ok when people chime in to support you? You never complained about tag teams when it was 3-4 of you attacking jpryor! You tout your great support of people being able to express their opinions but seem to be dismayed by people actually doing it when it does not fit your agenda. The martydom of AZ continues....

AUCMD2006
02-15-2006, 09:53 AM
what? Is it only ok when people chime in to support you? You never complained about tag teams when it was 3-4 of you attacking jpryor! You tout your great support of people being able to express their opinions but seem to be dismayed by people actually doing it when it does not fit your agenda. The martydom of AZ continues....

yea he does get irritable when things don't go according to his intentions...

empathy
02-15-2006, 11:15 AM
The poor have a million angels protecting them. You don’t want non-profit groups all over the world breathing down St. Chris’s neck. They don’t take men using the poor as an excuse to get rich lightly. Just one of your admin owns tons of properties and drives 3 cars. A Lincoln, Benz and Corvette. (Truth101) His most expensive property is valued at $800,000 (Public records Jersey and FL) The US knows where the money is going. Call the embassy in Senegal and ask how much aid St. Chris has provided to their country.

Like I said BTS you are doing St. Chris more harm than good.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 11:28 AM
She is my bodyguard....6 foot tall, crackshot with a 38 hammerless revolver, so yes, she accompanies me everywhere.

Who were you threatening, Az?

bts4202
02-15-2006, 11:36 AM
Who were you threatening, Az?

I feel threatened... :cry:

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 11:37 AM
what? Is it only ok when people chime in to support you? You never complained about tag teams when it was 3-4 of you attacking jpryor! You tout your great support of people being able to express their opinions but seem to be dismayed by people actually doing it when it does not fit your agenda. The martydom of AZ continues.... No, not dismayed, just amused. a spirited conversation is always invigorating. Don't mind it at all. Hail, hail, the gangs all here and we are better for it.

bts4202
02-15-2006, 11:42 AM
No, not dismayed, just amused. a spirited conversation is always invigorating. Don't mind it at all.

There ya go. Now see, isn't that better than claiming threats and attacks and then saying your wife will shoot us?

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 11:44 AM
There ya go. Now see, isn't that better than claiming threats and attacks and then saying your wife will shoot us? bts is my secret supporter from SC and now is coming out. Thanks

OLDPRO
02-15-2006, 12:11 PM
please stay on topic or I'll lock the thread

jpryor
02-15-2006, 12:39 PM
Let's see...thumbing through the posts here: Did not, did too...Am not, yes you are....my dog can beat up your dog....oh yea, here we go...IMED didn't mean what it posted. Right. I wonder how many folks have checked the GMC site today?

CorporateRaider
02-15-2006, 12:50 PM
I will try my best, here goes:

Has anyone that posts here, verified, what originally started this Thread?

If someone has called the ECFMG , is this type of query, verifiable via telephone?

E-mail perhaps?

jpryor
02-15-2006, 12:54 PM
I don't have any reason to doubt their web site so I haven't called anybody. But it's doable, if you want.

maximillian genossa
02-15-2006, 01:00 PM
The lady that picked up the phone call after 5 minutes on hold told me that she had no comment and any question concerning St. Christopher please email [email protected]

I emailed this bkelly character and I am yet to receive a reply from him. Stay tuned. OH! P.S. GMC replied to me the following...

"
Thank you for your email of 13 February 2006.

We are currently investigating a number of medical schools in the UK whose students are awarded degrees from a university based outside the UK. Information about individual medical schools can be found on our website through the following link.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp)

This means that currently, we are not accepting these degrees for the purpose of registration.

We will update our website as soon as more information becomes available.

If you have any further queries please contact us and we will do our best to help.

Yours sincerely

Cheryl Davies
Registration and Education Directorate
General Medical Council
Telephone: 0845 357 3456
www.gmc-uk.org (http://www.gmc-uk.org)

Stay tuned, as soon as I get anything I will post it accordingly.

Max


I will try my best, here goes:

Has anyone that posts here, verified, what originally started this Thread?

If someone has called the ECFMG , is this type of query, verifiable via telephone?

E-mail perhaps?

orangecrush
02-15-2006, 01:06 PM
I called ECFMG to verify the claims. The gave me an email address to some guy. I have yet to receive a response. The address is: [email protected]

I have heard that things will be resolved by Thursday this week from a student who talked with L. We will wait and see as usual. Wish there was more info about this issue and GMC given to the students, the ones taking the most risk.

maximillian genossa
02-15-2006, 01:11 PM
...nothing my friend. Wait until you get a reply from the official source, the ECFMG or IMED or GMC. The school will say anything they want especially under a status of "damage control".

I have the bad habit of not believing anything posted in these forums until I verify it personally, sorry for my bluntness.





I called ECFMG to verify the claims. The gave me an email address to some guy. I have yet to receive a response. The address is: [email protected]

I have heard that things will be resolved by Thursday this week from a student who talked with L. We will wait and see as usual. Wish there was more info about this issue and GMC given to the students, the ones taking the most risk.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 01:22 PM
Wait until you get a reply from the official source, the ECFMG or IMED or GMC.

Unfortunately, as this debacle with the GMC and Oregon's ODA has revealed, you can't even accept their words as gospel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never did hear of any GMC representative being in contact with SC prior to suspending the acceptance of their degrees. This all seems to have been triggered by a highly suspect news reporter.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 01:26 PM
Unfortunately, as this debacle with the GMC and Oregon's ODA has revealed, you can't even accept their words as gospel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never did hear of any GMC representative being in contact with SC prior to suspending the acceptance of their degrees. This all seems to have been triggered by a highly suspect news reporter. Doesn't matter what triggered it but rather if the laws are being followed. BTS has claimd that the GMC has had many inspections of Luton in the past.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 01:40 PM
Doesn't matter what triggered it but rather if the laws are being followed. BTS has claimd that the GMC has had many inspections of Luton in the past.

Oh, I disagree with you on that completely...but then, that's a matter for the attorneys now.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 01:45 PM
Oh, I disagree with you on that completely...but then, that's a matter for the attorneys now. Sorry that you don't agree with BTS's claim that the GMC had been at Luton frequently but your statement about attorneys is absolutely true. lets see how GMC's barristers and the ECFMG and Oregon and the NHS Fraud Control unit attorneys do in additon to SC's attorneys which have been working on this since november 3, 2005. That will tell us all what is going to happen. We know little in over 100 days indeed since the original GMC ruling.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 01:51 PM
Sorry that you don't agree with BTS's claim that the GMC had been at Luton frequently but your statement about attorneys is absolutely true. lets see how GMC's barristers and the ECFMG and Oregon and the NHS Fraud Control unit attorneys do in additon to SC's attorneys which have been working on this since november 3, 2005. That will tell us all what is going to happen. We know little in over 100 days indeed since the original GMC ruling.

Oh, come now. You don't need to twist my words in such a sophomoric manner. The statement I made is that I don't recall hearing that GMC representatives had contact with SC prior to suspending their degree acceptance and that this entire matter seems to have stemmed from this FiveAlive reporters words. That doesn't reflect a professional or competent approach to this by the GMC and it is highly irresponsible of them to do anything, positive or negative, on hearsay.

And, contrary to your statement, we do know quite a bit. The government of Senegal has provided documentation to the GMC and IMED and IMED has updated their web site first--affirming the charter and its dates.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 01:53 PM
Oh, come now. You don't need to twist my words in such a sophomoric manner. The statement I made is that I don't recall hearing that GMC representatives had contact with SC prior to suspending their degree acceptance and that this entire matter seems to have stemmed from this FiveAlive reporters words. That doesn't reflect a professional or competent approach to this by the GMC and it is highly irresponsible of them to do anything, positive or negative, on hearsay.

And, contrary to your statement, we do know quite a bit. The government of Senegal has provided documentation to the GMC and IMED and IMED has updated their web site first--affirming the charter and its dates. and that the ECFMG has suspended issuing ECFMG approvals to SC per SC students who have verified it.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 01:56 PM
and that the ECFMG has suspended issuing ECFMG approvals to SC per SC students who have verified it.

Funny, they haven't come here to post that info. And frankly, we've learned to suspect you and your sources. It also flies in the face of logic that IMED would update their web page one day and then turn around issue a suspension.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 01:59 PM
Funny, they haven't come here to post that info. And frankly, we've learned to suspect you and your sources. It also flies in the face of logic that IMED would update their web page one day and then turn around issue a suspension. Ok, you are the trusted information source for the group so we'll await your research.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 02:08 PM
I'm nobody's source. But, if the ECFMG did suspend applications following IMED updating its web page, I'd be laughing at the Mickey Mouse operation. It would be fodder for a rank amateur attorney.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 02:11 PM
I'm nobody's source. But, if the ECFMG did suspend applications following IMED updating its web page, I'd be laughing at the Mickey Mouse operation. It would be fodder for a rank amateur attorney. We actually have some attorney members on this board who can perhaps explain the difference between the info on IMED and ECFMG decisions to you.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 02:14 PM
We actually have some attorney members on this board who can perhaps explain the difference between the info on IMED and ECFMG decisions to you.

I've read the ECFMG criteria and it's nothing earth shaking. Neither is IMED, for that matter. The only issue I can fathom would have been students graduating between 2000 and 2003 and the IMED update appears to have resolved that. Now, if the ECFMG wants that clarified, I can see them pending, not suspending, applications--and there's a world of difference in that decision.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 02:44 PM
ok, you win

empathy
02-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Mr. L. told him that because he'll be in Jersey or Naples on Thurs. I'm sure. He'll avoid Luton for a while I bet.


I called ECFMG to verify the claims. The gave me an email address to some guy. I have yet to receive a response. The address is: [email protected]

I have heard that things will be resolved by Thursday this week from a student who talked with L. We will wait and see as usual. Wish there was more info about this issue and GMC given to the students, the ones taking the most risk.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 02:58 PM
and that the ECFMG has suspended issuing ECFMG approvals to SC per SC students who have verified it.

You better double check this information. Your disgruntled student doesn't have his info right.

maximillian genossa
02-15-2006, 02:58 PM
Its a matter of semantics and what we want it to mean. Az et.al want to put a bad spin on it, they do. Jpryor et.al want to put a good spin on it, they do.

The only thing that really intrigues me is this...how come some students have emailed Az to let him know that they have been notified about not being able to sit for the USMLE and absolutely NONE of them have bothered to post it here so other students can be aware of it? I would like to see a couple of those because last time I checked Az is not a SC student nor their representatives..sorry Az.

Lets hear from people who have something more important than our egos riding on. Lets hear from these students that have been told this from the ECFMG.

ANY VOLUNTEERS?








I've read the ECFMG criteria and it's nothing earth shaking. Neither is IMED, for that matter. The only issue I can fathom would have been students graduating between 2000 and 2003 and the IMED update appears to have resolved that. Now, if the ECFMG wants that clarified, I can see them pending, not suspending, applications--and there's a world of difference in that decision.

drlerner
02-15-2006, 03:12 PM
I am glad I found this site. I graduated 2005, passed Step 1, 2, CSA thru ECFMG and have a ECFMG Certificate. I am currently finishing my first year of residency.

Will any of this affect me?

Thanks for any info

jpryor
02-15-2006, 03:15 PM
I am glad I found this site. I graduated 2005, passed Step 1, 2, CSA thru ECFMG and have a ECFMG Certificate. I am currently finishing my first year of residency.

Will any of this affect me?

Thanks for any info

Keep checking back over the next couple of weeks for the definitive answer. Right now, at best, we can only say we hope not. Based on the current information, it appears all is working out in favor of the school, but until it's etched in stone nobody can give a reliable answer.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 03:16 PM
Its a matter of semantics and what we want it to mean. Az et.al want to put a bad spin on it, they do. Jpryor et.al want to put a good spin on it, they do.

The only thing that really intrigues me is this...how come some students have emailed Az to let him know that they have been notified about not being able to sit for the USMLE and absolutely NONE of them have bothered to post it here so other students can be aware of it? I would like to see a couple of those because last time I checked Az is not a SC student nor their representatives..sorry Az.

Lets hear from people who have something more important than our egos riding on. Lets hear from these students that have been told this from the ECFMG.

ANY VOLUNTEERS? The students have been told not to talk in public and it is risky for them. Their private discussion board is paranoid about 'intruders'. So only a few will post here.....and are probably designated apologists is my guess but who knows.

azskeptic
02-15-2006, 03:18 PM
You better double check this information. Your disgruntled student doesn't have his info right. I've verified the information for myself in 2 ways from non-students.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 03:22 PM
By all means then, tell us what you have learned.

empathy
02-15-2006, 03:24 PM
Edit - silly post.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 03:27 PM
Looky there, Az...I think this must be one of your grassy knoll people.

bts4202
02-15-2006, 03:35 PM
The students are afraid to post here because the moderators have access to IPO addresses. If, you read Whuds posts...how he defends the school and always backs up BTS and JP and you'll understand. ValueMD should have completely neutral professional moderators so students won't be scared away. They also will have to move to pro mods soon because if an IPO is ever given out without a court order they be in BIG trouble....make that HUGE!


Uh oh, I feel threatened!! :cry::cry:. ****

ol' man
02-15-2006, 03:39 PM
Well, don't tell Chaney. He really WILL get a gun.

This thread is better than watching Jerry Springer.

jpryor
02-15-2006, 03:52 PM
Well, don't tell Chaney. He really WILL get a gun.

Okay, who are YOU threatening? :p


I'm out of here for the evening. Y'all have fun.

maximillian genossa
02-15-2006, 04:43 PM
The students have been told not to talk in public and it is risky for them. Their private discussion board is paranoid about 'intruders'. So only a few will post here.....and are probably designated apologists is my guess but who knows.

Any brave soul out there? Would like to hear from any of them as well.

orangecrush
02-15-2006, 04:44 PM
There are only a couple of posts here that have provided information that has been useful. Stop posting useless banter that does not provide real info....sheeesh

bts4202
02-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Any brave soul out there? Would like to hear from any of them as well.
come on guys, why not say what you really mean?

"Anyone, if you ever hear any damaging info on st chris, please send it to me so that I can do my best to destroy your school. Thank you!"

OLDPRO
02-15-2006, 04:52 PM
There is too much hostility on both sides here, please keep stop with the insults, those of you know who I'm talking about, leave me out of it. I'm neutral, do not go to the school. If this continues I will lock the thread.
Last warning.

tanisha
02-15-2006, 05:00 PM
There is too much hostility on both sides here, please keep stop with the insults, those of you know who I'm talking about, leave me out of it. I'm neutral, do not go to the school. If this continues I will lock the thread.
Last warning. edited, user can't play nice.

Also locking. Teratos







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